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Mathematics
09-16-2008, 07:56 AM
ouch. I might even do some timv coloring for you guys who just want to skim it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/15/AR2008091502406.html


The Ugly New McCain
By Richard Cohen
Wednesday, September 17, 2008; Page

Following his loss to George W. Bush in the 2000 South Carolina primary, John McCain did something extraordinary: He confessed to lying about how he felt about the Confederate battle flag, which he actually abhorred. "I broke my promise to always tell the truth," McCain said. Now he has broken that promise so completely that the John McCain of old is unrecognizable. He has become the sort of politician he once despised.

The precise moment of McCain's abasement came, would you believe, not at some news conference or on one of the Sunday shows but on "The View," the daytime TV show created by Barbara Walters. Last week, one of the co-hosts, Joy Behar, took McCain to task for some of the ads his campaign has been running. One deliberately mischaracterized what Barack Obama had said about putting lipstick on a pig -- an Americanism that McCain himself has used. The other asserted that Obama supported teaching sex education to kindergarteners.

"We know that those two ads are untrue," Behar said. "They are lies."

Freeze. Close in on McCain. This was the moment. He has largely been avoiding the press. The Straight Talk Express is now just a brand, an ad slogan like "Home Cooking" or "We Will Not Be Undersold." Until then, it was possible for McCain to say that he had not really known about the ads, that the formulation "I approve this message" was just boilerplate. But he didn't.

"Actually, they are not lies," he said.

Actually, they are.

McCain has turned ugly. His dishonesty would be unacceptable in any politician, but McCain has always set his own bar higher than most. He has contempt for most of his colleagues for that very reason: They lie. He tells the truth. He internalizes the code of the McCains -- his grandfather, his father: both admirals of the shining sea. He serves his country differently, that's all -- but just as honorably. No more, though.

I am one of the journalists accused over the years of being in the tank for McCain. Guilty. Those doing the accusing usually attributed my feelings to McCain being accessible. This is the journalist-as-puppy school of thought: Give us a treat, and we will leap into a politician's lap. Not so. What impressed me most about McCain was the effect he had on his audiences, particularly young people. When he talked about service to a cause greater than oneself, he struck a chord. He expressed his message in words, but he packaged it in the McCain story -- that man, beaten to a pulp, who chose honor over freedom. This had nothing to do with access. It had to do with integrity.

McCain has soiled all that. His opportunistic and irresponsible choice of Sarah Palin as his political heir -- the person in whose hands he would leave the country -- is a form of personal treason, a betrayal of all he once stood for. Palin, no matter what her other attributes, is shockingly unprepared to become president. McCain knows that. He means to win, which is all right; he means to win at all costs, which is not.
At a forum last week at Columbia University, McCain said, "But right now we have to restore trust and confidence in government." This was always the promise of John McCain, the single best reason to vote for him. America has been cheated on too many times -- the lies of Vietnam and Watergate and Iraq. So many lies. Who believes that in Afghanistan last month, only five civilians were killed by the American military in an airstrike, instead of the approximately 90 claimed by the Afghan government? Not me. I first gave up on the military during Vietnam and then again when it covered up the death of Pat Tillman, the Army Ranger and former NFL player who was killed in 2004 by friendly fire.

McCain was going to fix all that. He was going to look the American people in the eyes and say, not me. I will not lie to you. I am John McCain, son and grandson of admirals. I tell the truth.

But Joy Behar knew better. And so McCain lied about his lying and maybe thinks that if he wins the election, he can -- as he did in South Carolina -- renounce who he was and what he did and resume his old persona. It won't work. Karl Marx got one thing right -- what he said about history repeating itself. Once is tragedy, a second time is farce. John McCain is both.

I think yesterday & today are marking a turnaround in McCains campaign...the Palin buzz seems to be wearing off while the scandals around her remain, on a day the DOW drops 500 points McCains saying our "fundamentals are sound", and even the folks at Fox news (O'Reilly, ROVE of all people) are calling him out on his lies...in politics you can lie once or twice & get away with it, making the same lies over & over eventually mainstream media catches on. And now the "straight talk express" McCain brand has been ruined...even if he stops lying now, the average American wont be able to take his words at face value anytime soon.

I havent checked todays poll's yet, but yesterdays seemed to show a small move towards Obama...we'll have to see if it continues.

13
09-16-2008, 09:10 AM
ouch. stick a fork in 'im.

Rasputin
09-16-2008, 09:10 AM
I havent checked todays poll's yet, but yesterdays seemed to show a small move towards Obama...we'll have to see if it continues.

Rasmussen has McCain at +1.

He's going down. I'm looking forward to the debates.

MashedPotatoes
09-16-2008, 11:17 AM
funny to see the press getting all plucked about the level of dishonesty in our public discourse. where have they been the last 8 years?

From_the_NEK
09-16-2008, 11:19 AM
funny to see the press getting all plucked about the level of dishonesty in our public discourse. where have they been the last 8 years?

You can't question the Bush administration. You'll end up on their shit list and the Patriot Act allows Dick Cheney to shoot you in the face. :nonono2:

Rasputin
09-16-2008, 11:33 AM
funny to see the press getting all plucked about the level of dishonesty in our public discourse. where have they been the last 8 years?

If you'd read it carefully, you'd know that the writer used to have a very high opinion of McCain. He's not writing about anything other than how McCain has sacrificed his integrity for a chance at the White House.

Suggesting it is a general statement about dishonesty and public discourse, is either lacking in comprehension, or is a deliberate attempt to divert attention from the significance of the commentary.

David Witherspoon
09-16-2008, 12:55 PM
Crushed. Gone to meet his maker.
Sold his soul for a gambler's chance, then doubled down on a 12 ... you know how the song goes.

"I Am Not A Crook"

"Actually, They Are Not Lies"

Sure can't say he went gentle into that good night, though - he's burnin' and ravin' at close of day.

powder11
09-16-2008, 01:48 PM
If the next president is John McCain, one of his top financial advisers is former senator Phil Gramm of Texas, a key architect of the extreme financial deregulation that created the current mess on Wall St.

For that reason alone, I cannot and will not support McLame. He is too out of touch with reality to even care about fixing the economy right now.

timvwcom
09-16-2008, 02:39 PM
Cohen isn't the only conservative to turn on McCain. Here regards his choice of Palin;

David Brooks;
http://morningchuhi.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/brooks.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/opinion/16brooks.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin


Sarah Palin has many virtues. If you wanted someone to destroy a corrupt establishment, she'd be your woman. But the constructive act of governance is another matter. She has not been engaged in national issues, does not have a repertoire of historic patterns and, like President Bush, she seems to compensate for her lack of experience with brashness and excessive decisiveness.


Ross Douthat;
http://pewforum.org/newassets/images/transcripts/gg/rd2.jpg

http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/sarah_the_unready.php


Now that we've seen the entirety of the Palin-Gibson tete-a-tete, I concur with Rich Lowry and Rod Dreher. The most that can be said in her defense is that she kept her cool and avoided any brutal gaffes; other than that, she seemed about an inch deep on every issue outside her comfort zone. Yes, the questions were tougher than the ones that a Tim Kaine or Tim Pawlenty probably would have been handed, but they were all questions that a vice-presidential nominee needs to be able to answer. And there's no way to look at her performance as anything save supporting evidence for the non-hysterical critique of her candidacy - that it's just too much, too soon - and a splash of cold water for those of us with high hopes for her future on the national stage.

h/t Huffington post

MashedPotatoes
09-16-2008, 02:44 PM
If you'd read it carefully, you'd know that the writer used to have a very high opinion of McCain. He's not writing about anything other than how McCain has sacrificed his integrity for a chance at the White House.

Suggesting it is a general statement about dishonesty and public discourse, is either lacking in comprehension, or is a deliberate attempt to divert attention from the significance of the commentary.

I'm not trying to divert attention. Cohen isn't the only columnist who's disenchanted with McCain..

My point is that people like Cohen who were so willing to swallow establishment bullshit for so long suddenly have a hair up their ass because the mavericky straight-talker isn't what he claims to be. It's laughable to me. I guess he deserves some credit for this but I'll take Cohen's hand-wringing with a very large grain of salt.

Rasputin
09-16-2008, 03:15 PM
I'm not trying to divert attention. Cohen isn't the only columnist who's disenchanted with McCain..

My point is that people like Cohen who were so willing to swallow establishment bullshit for so long suddenly have a hair up their ass because the mavericky straight-talker isn't what he claims to be. It's laughable to me. I guess he deserves some credit for this but I'll take Cohen's hand-wringing with a very large grain of salt.

I can't imagine anyone who has watched McCain over the last fifteen years hasn't noticed how he has gradually compromised his ideals in his quest for the presidency. There was a time when I was OK with the idea of voting for him, and I was much less mainstream then than I'm am now. However in my eyes he has taken step after step downward into the pit of compromise and dishonesty. He's a shell of who he used to be, and I can't imagine anyone who saw him in better days not feeling a bit sad that someone who used to be very much his own man has become a liar and a suck up.

I am glad to see a reporter up in arms about him telling a blatant lie to cover blatantly false attack ads. It is good for our country when the truth is told, and just because awareness slumbered, it doesn't make the waking any less important or valid. Why is finally saying the right thing, after not saying anything, considered the wrong thing?

mr_gyptian
09-16-2008, 06:48 PM
ouch. I might even do some timv coloring for you guys who just want to skim it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/15/AR2008091502406.html



I think yesterday & today are marking a turnaround in McCains campaign...the Palin buzz seems to be wearing off while the scandals around her remain, on a day the DOW drops 500 points McCains saying our "fundamentals are sound", and even the folks at Fox news (O'Reilly, ROVE of all people) are calling him out on his lies...in politics you can lie once or twice & get away with it, making the same lies over & over eventually mainstream media catches on. And now the "straight talk express" McCain brand has been ruined...even if he stops lying now, the average American wont be able to take his words at face value anytime soon.

I havent checked todays poll's yet, but yesterdays seemed to show a small move towards Obama...we'll have to see if it continues.

one of the most partisan liberal writers in the east coast media flips on the Republican candidate for president!!???

what will be next?

Adolf Allerbush
09-16-2008, 06:55 PM
one of the most partisan liberal writers in the east coast media flips on the Republican candidate for president!!???

what will be next?

Maybe he'll light up Bill Clinton for the Lewinski scandal...oh wait, he already did. You're right, he's the "MOST partisan liberal writer"...

He may not be Hannity or Rush but he certainly isn't 100% lib either.

Jer
09-16-2008, 07:08 PM
Maybe he'll light up Bill Clinton for the Lewinski scandal...oh wait, he already did. You're right, he's the "MOST partisan liberal writer"...

He may not be Hannity or Rush but he certainly isn't 100% lib either.

Ok - 90%.

Seriously - all the libs are doing these days is preaching to the choir. While that may make the choir really confident, it does nothing for the bazillion other Americans who are being mezmerised by McPalin's down-home charm and Maverick attitude.

Dumbass retard Middle-America isn't even aware of about 95% of the shocking revelations being discussed by the TGR libs here.

Adolf Allerbush
09-16-2008, 07:34 PM
Ok - 90%.

Seriously - all the libs are doing these days is preaching to the choir. While that may make the choir really confident, it does nothing for the bazillion other Americans who are being mezmerised by McPalin's down-home charm and Maverick attitude.

Dumbass retard Middle-America isn't even aware of about 95% of the shocking revelations being discussed by the TGR libs here.

More like 75%...puhlease dewd.

You're right about one thing though...the dems need to start taking the republicans to task about some of this shit...and not just in the debates...start challenging them to face to face interviews. If Palin is that much of a jackass have Biden go onto Fox News with Hannity and sit through an interview. Obama should challenge McSame to some townhall like Q&A sessions...prove that Obama and Biden are better candidates instead of hoping that the public does it's homework. I don't know if Middle-American are dumbasses like Jer thinks, but I'm positive that he's correct about 95% (at least) not being aware of what goes on in the Political Asshattery Forum on TGR.

mr_gyptian
09-17-2008, 10:39 AM
Maybe he'll light up Bill Clinton for the Lewinski scandal...oh wait, he already did. You're right, he's the "MOST partisan liberal writer"...

He may not be Hannity or Rush but he certainly isn't 100% lib either.

did anyone in their right mind, outside Mary McGrory, defend Clinton?


christ, even Molly Ivins and Maureen Dowd took shots at Clinton.

Adolf Allerbush
09-17-2008, 10:56 AM
did anyone in their right mind, outside Mary McGrory, defend Clinton?


christ, even Molly Ivins and Maureen Dowd took shots at Clinton.

You've really never heard reporters say "nobody died when Clinton lied"?

I do agree though, most reporters were jumping at this at the time...

mr_gyptian
09-17-2008, 11:15 AM
More like 75%...puhlease dewd.

You're right about one thing though...the dems need to start taking the republicans to task about some of this shit...and not just in the debates...start challenging them to face to face interviews. If Palin is that much of a jackass have Biden go onto Fox News with Hannity and sit through an interview. Obama should challenge McSame to some townhall like Q&A sessions...prove that Obama and Biden are better candidates instead of hoping that the public does it's homework. I don't know if Middle-American are dumbasses like Jer thinks, but I'm positive that he's correct about 95% (at least) not being aware of what goes on in the Political Asshattery Forum on TGR.

I don't know about Palin, but McCain absolutely crushes townhall meetings. If it were a batting lineup, Clinton would bat third and McCain would be clean up.

I bet Obama wouldn't even let an unscripted townhall style event happen. Atleast one where he had to debate or compete with McCain.

Adolf Allerbush
09-17-2008, 11:21 AM
I don't know about Palin, but McCain absolutely crushes townhall meetings. If it were a batting lineup, Clinton would bat third and McCain would be clean up.

I bet Obama wouldn't even let an unscripted townhall style event happen. Atleast one where he had to debate or compete with McCain.

And that's what sucks about the process here. Maybe McCain does some things he isn't as strong at...maybe debating? Maybe the View? joking about that...but more face to face discussions about the issues would only help all of us figure out who the stronger candidate is. McCain is still old...I've never seen Obama in a townhall type scenario...perhaps he blows goats, perhaps he kills it...that's just it, who knows?

David Witherspoon
09-17-2008, 11:35 AM
Who cares whether either of them blows town hall attendees.

We need somebody who can manage not to screw up the most complex economic and political structure the world has ever seen.

Jer
09-17-2008, 05:36 PM
Who cares whether either of them blows town hall attendees.

We need somebody who can manage not to screw up the most complex economic and political structure the world has ever seen.

Dave - shouldn't you be feeding your unicorn?