So you really think Palin is all that and a bag of chips?

[truth]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5070

[Smokey McPole]

The NYT is the new National Enquirer. Actually the two have kinda switched places.

[13]

The NYT is the new National Enquirer. Actually the two have kinda switched places.

read it. i dare you.

[Smokey McPole]

read it. i dare you.

I do. They had a killer story about the Bride of Bigfoot in the last edition.

[timvwcom]

Thanks for the link (to both truth and lemon boy)...

Great info... but a long 5 page read for those with less attention span here 'bouts. So, of course, I've done some editing. This is STILL quite lengthy, but vastly shortened from the piece;


But an examination of her swift rise and record as mayor of Wasilla and then governor finds that her visceral style and penchant for attacking critics — she sometimes calls local opponents “haters” — contrasts with her carefully crafted public image.

Throughout her political career, she has pursued vendettas, fired officials who crossed her and sometimes blurred the line between government and personal grievance, according to a review of public records and interviews with 60 Republican and Democratic legislators and local officials.

...

Interviews show that Ms. Palin runs an administration that puts a premium on loyalty and secrecy. The governor and her top officials sometimes use personal e-mail accounts for state business; dozens of e-mail messages obtained by The New York Times show that her staff members studied whether that could allow them to circumvent subpoenas seeking public records.

-------------------------------------

“Their secrecy is off the charts,” Mr. Steiner said.

State legislators are investigating accusations that Ms. Palin and her husband pressured officials to fire a state trooper who had gone through a messy divorce with her sister, charges that she denies. But interviews make clear that the Palins draw few distinctions between the personal and the political.

-------------------------------------

Last summer State Representative John Harris, the Republican speaker of the House, picked up his phone and heard Mr. Palin’s voice. The governor’s husband sounded edgy. He said he was unhappy that Mr. Harris had hired John Bitney as his chief of staff, the speaker recalled. Mr. Bitney was a high school classmate of the Palins and had worked for Ms. Palin. But she fired Mr. Bitney after learning that he had fallen in love with another longtime friend.

“I understood from the call that Todd wasn’t happy with me hiring John and he’d like to see him not there,” Mr. Harris said.

“The Palin family gets upset at personal issues,” he added. “And at our level, they want to strike back.”

-------------------------------------

But careers were turned upside down. The mayor quickly fired the town’s museum director, John Cooper. Later, she sent an aide to the museum to talk to the three remaining employees. “He told us they only wanted two,” recalled Esther West, one of the three, “and we had to pick who was going to be laid off.” The three quit as one.

Ms. Palin cited budget difficulties for the museum cuts. Mr. Cooper thought differently, saying the museum had become a microcosm of class and cultural conflicts in town. “It represented that the town was becoming more progressive, and they didn’t want that,” he said.

Days later, Mr. Cooper recalled, a vocal conservative, Steve Stoll, sidled up to him. Mr. Stoll had supported Ms. Palin and had a long-running feud with Mr. Cooper. “He said: ‘Gotcha, Cooper,’ ” Mr. Cooper said.

-------------------------------------

In 1997, Ms. Palin fired the longtime city attorney, Richard Deuser, after he issued the stop-work order on a home being built by Don Showers, another of her campaign supporters.

Your attorney, Mr. Showers told Ms. Palin, is costing me lots of money.

“She told me she’d like to see him fired,” Mr. Showers recalled. “But she couldn’t do it herself because the City Council hires the city attorney.” Ms. Palin told him to write the council members to complain.

Meanwhile, Ms. Palin pushed the issue from the inside. “She started the ball rolling,” said Ms. Patrick, who also favored the firing. Mr. Deuser was soon replaced by Ken Jacobus — then the State Republican Party’s general counsel.

“Professionals were either forced out or fired,” Mr. Deuser said.

-------------------------------------

In the middle of the primary, a conservative columnist in the state, Paul Jenkins, unearthed e-mail messages showing that Ms. Palin had conducted campaign business from the mayor’s office. Ms. Palin handled the crisis with a street fighter’s guile.

“I told her it looks like she did the same thing that Randy Ruedrich did,” Mr. Jenkins recalled. “And she said, ‘Yeah, what I did was wrong.’ ”

Mr. Jenkins hung up and decided to forgo writing about it. His phone rang soon after.

Mr. Jenkins said a reporter from Fairbanks, reading from a Palin news release, demanded to know why he was “smearing” her. “Now I look at her and think: ‘Man, you’re slick,’ ” he said.

-------------------------------------

As she assembled her cabinet and made other state appointments, those with insider credentials were now on the outs. But a new pattern became clear. She surrounded herself with people she has known since grade school and members of her church.

Ms. Palin chose Talis Colberg, a borough assemblyman from the Matanuska valley, as her attorney general, provoking a bewildered question from the legal community: “Who?” Mr. Colberg, who did not return calls, moved from a one-room building in the valley to one of the most powerful offices in the state, supervising some 500 people.

“I called him and asked, ‘Do you know how to supervise people?’ ” said a family friend, Kathy Wells. “He said, ‘No, but I think I’ll get some help.’ ”

-------------------------------------

While Ms. Palin took office promising a more open government, her administration has battled to keep information secret. Her inner circle discussed the benefit of using private e-mail addresses. An assistant told her it appeared that such e-mail messages sent to a private address on a “personal device” like a Blackberry “would be confidential and not subject to subpoena.”

The governor’s office did not respond to questions on the topic.

Ms. Palin and aides use their private e-mail addresses for state business. On Feb. 7, Frank Bailey, a high-level aide, wrote to Ms. Palin’s state e-mail address to discuss appointments. Another aide fired back: “Frank, this is not the governor’s personal account.”

Mr. Bailey responded: “Whoops~!”

-------------------------------------

Many lawmakers contend that Ms. Palin is overly reliant on a small inner circle that leaves her isolated. Democrats and Republicans alike describe her as often missing in action. Since taking office in 2007, Ms. Palin has spent 312 nights at her Wasilla home, some 600 miles to the north of the governor’s mansion in Juneau, records show.

During the last legislative session, some lawmakers became so frustrated with her absences that they took to wearing “Where’s Sarah?” pins.

Many politicians say they typically learn of her initiatives — and vetoes — from news releases.

Mayors across the state, from the larger cities to tiny municipalities along the southeastern fiords, are even more frustrated. Often, their letters go unanswered and their pleas ignored, records and interviews show.

-------------------------------------

The administration’s e-mail correspondence reveals a siege-like atmosphere. Top aides keep score, demean enemies and gloat over successes. Even some who helped engineer her rise have felt her wrath.

Dan Fagan, a prominent conservative radio host and longtime friend of Ms. Palin, urged his listeners to vote for her in 2006. But when he took her to task for raising taxes on oil companies, he said, he found himself branded a “hater.”

It is part of a pattern, Mr. Fagan said, in which Ms. Palin characterizes critics as “bad people who are anti-Alaska.”

-------------------------------------

As Ms. Palin’s star ascends, the McCain campaign, as often happens in national races, is controlling the words of those who know her well. Her mother-in-law, Faye Palin, has been asked not to speak to reporters, and aides sit in on interviews with old friends.

At a recent lunch gathering, an official with the Wasilla Chamber of Commerce asked its members to refer all calls from reporters to the governor’s office. Diane Woodruff, a city councilwoman, shook her head.

“I was thinking, I don’t remember giving up my First Amendment rights,” Ms. Woodruff said. “Just because you’re not going gaga over Sarah doesn’t mean you can’t speak your mind.”

[DharmaBum]

Lipstick or not, this pig smells like shit.

[Big Balls]

I love Sarah Palin. I will be voting for her..... and the old guy too.

[Big Balls]

Oh also, I notice that for all the long list of small things that tabloid writes about they fail to mention her %82 approval rating and the fact that everyone in her state thinks she's getting the job done. Which is funny considering the NYT writes favorable pieces about the Democratic Congress who have a %9 approval rating. Go figure. Redneck Americans must just be stupid again.

[timvwcom]

Oh also, I notice that for all the long list of small things that tabloid writes about they fail to mention her %82 approval rating and the fact that everyone in her state thinks she's getting the job done. Which is funny considering the NYT writes favorable pieces about the Democratic Congress who have a %9 approval rating. Go figure. Redneck Americans must just be stupid again.

You are quoting old numbers my friend...

In July 2008 the Rasmussen Reports poll had the percentage that "she is doing a good or excellent job as Governor" at 64%. The newest numbers released Sept. 10th 2008 have that number at 68% (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_senate_elections/alaska/election_2008_alaska_senate). Certainly a pretty good number... HOWEVER, since this latest poll also showed that indicted Alaska Senator Ted Stevens is still polling at 46% in his reelection bid, I'd say the odds are good something like 50% would give the Republican Palin good ratings even if she was proven to be a crook, so not really sure how to judge these numbers or what weight to give them...

Oh, and on your "fact that everyone in her state thinks she's getting the job done"... the research for the front page NY Times article that is the subject of this thread included interviews of 70 Republican and Democrats... here's how her job performance is being rated by other lawmakers and mayors;


Many lawmakers contend that Ms. Palin is overly reliant on a small inner circle that leaves her isolated. Democrats and Republicans alike describe her as often missing in action. Since taking office in 2007, Ms. Palin has spent 312 nights at her Wasilla home, some 600 miles to the north of the governor’s mansion in Juneau, records show.

During the last legislative session, some lawmakers became so frustrated with her absences that they took to wearing “Where’s Sarah?” pins.

Many politicians say they typically learn of her initiatives — and vetoes — from news releases.

Mayors across the state, from the larger cities to tiny municipalities along the southeastern fiords, are even more frustrated. Often, their letters go unanswered and their pleas ignored, records and interviews show.

Last summer, Mayor Mark Begich of Anchorage, a Democrat, pressed Ms. Palin to meet with him because the state had failed to deliver money needed to operate city traffic lights. At one point, records show, state officials told him to just turn off a dozen of them. Ms. Palin agreed to meet with Mr. Begich when he threatened to go public with his anger, according to city officials.

At an Alaska Municipal League gathering in Juneau in January, mayors across the political spectrum swapped stories of the governor’s remoteness. How many of you, someone asked, have tried to meet with her? Every hand went up, recalled Mayor Fred Shields of Haines Borough. And how many met with her? Just a few hands rose. Ms. Palin soon walked in, delivered a few remarks and left for an anti-abortion rally.

[timvwcom]

Washington Post out with it's own version of this story...

As Mayor of Wasilla, Palin Cut Own Duties, Left Trail of Bad Blood (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/13/AR2008091302596_pf.html)

[Cliff Huckable]

*ahem*


McCain

[13]

seriously tim, when are you gonna get off of palin and start focusing on mccain?

[timvwcom]

seriously tim, when are you gonna get off of palin and start focusing on mccain?

This Palin thing hasn't played out yet... Besides, McCain is just a "wrinkly old white dude", who would want to talk about him? :rolleyes2

(psst: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132710)

[DharmaBum]

seriously tim, when are you gonna get off of palin and start focusing on mccain?

Can't speak for Tim, but awhile back people were talking about how the VP pick was going to be a reflection of Obama's "executive decision-making judgment." Now, McCain has made a major blunder in judgment by picking someone who is in no way ready for such an office. As the facts about her and her record come out, it bears light on McCain's judgment and decision-making, or, it nears light on the judgment and decision-making of whoever made that decision for him (which is also a reflection on him...). Either way, talking about Palin is talking about McCain, and McCain loses credibility.

[Smokey McPole]

Now, McCain has made a major blunder in judgment by picking someone who is in no way ready for such an office.

Hey DB - have you ever heard of this dude named Barak Obama?

Seriously - you guys are just being intentionally dense when you bring up Palin's lack of experience, right?

[DharmaBum]

Hey DB - have you ever heard of this dude named Barak Obama?

Seriously - you guys are just being intentionally dense when you bring up Palin's lack of experience, right?

No, I've just given it more thought. Perhaps more objective thought than you. I just don't buy the line that Palin has more experience than Obama that the republicans are trying to shove down my throat. It isn't the amount of experience that's important to me, it's the quality and it isn't necessarily on-the-job experience. I look at Obama and I see experience in the senate and state legislature. I see someone who has a vision for the country that has been developed through life experience as well. I see someone who has run a well-managed campagin (at least, well managed enough to knock off a sure-thing political machine candidate in the primaries). Finally, I see someone who seems to give some thought to the issues and to how to address them. I think he is doing some things differently, though I'll grant you he is doing some things the same old way. But I don't think in black and white extremes, as many people who post here seem to do. I think in grey most of the time, and Obama appeals to that.

Spin that anyway you want to enhance your arguement, I still think Obama has more integrity than McCain and especially Palin. I still think Obama is more intelligent than the republican ticket, and I still think he'll make a better president. Call me a douche, zombie, whatever. Your constant focus on non-issues is getting old. Your name-calling and witless quips only reinforce that your candidate has nothing to stand on and that I have chosen the right guy.



Obama in '08. This time, I want a smart president.

[Smokey McPole]

Spin that anyway you want to enhance your arguement, I still think Obama has more integrity than McCain and especially Palin. I still think Obama is more intelligent than the republican ticket, and I still think he'll make a better president. Call me a douche, zombie, whatever. Your constant focus on non-issues is getting old. Your name-calling and witless quips only reinforce that your candidate has nothing to stand on and that I have chosen the right guy.

1) What's "my arguement"? All I've said is that both Palin and Obama are shockingly unqualified.

2) When I referred to you as "DB" I meant DharmaBum. Not Douche or Zombie or whatever. Calm down a bit there tiger.

3) I'm focusiing on non-issues? Have you clicked on 95% of the threads on this forum?

4) "My candidate"? Who is "my candidate"? Really, I'd like to hear it. I've stated dozens of times that I'm not voting for either McCain or Obama. Just because I rip on Obama doesn't mean I'm a McCain supporter, Douchezombie.


Obama in '08. This time, I want a smart president.

Well, if you want a smart president I'm sure the world will stop turning and we'll go out and find one.

[rideit]

Who would you be more embarrased to travel abroad with...A whiny wench or a tactful statesperson?

[Big Balls]

Ca Now, McCain has made a major blunder in judgment by picking someone who is in no way ready for such an office.

Yeah some "blunder". This "blunder" only led to a 15 point swing in the polls. It's only a blunder if you're a Democrat.

[Smokey McPole]

Who would you be more embarrased to travel abroad with...A whiny wench or a tactful statesperson?

Ride - are you shooting bee venom again?

[Big Balls]

Who would you be more embarrased to travel abroad with...A whiny wench

:rolleyes: We still have to talk about Hillary

[stuckathuntermtn]

It's so cute. She's like a little minny Bush. I'd tap that...on her bear rug!
Remeber the VP's job is to wait for the president to die, or vote in a Senatorial tie. Not be a puppet master ala Big Dick.

EDIT: damnit! I wasn't gonna let myself get sucked into this forum, but I'm board at work, and football is dumb.

[Neurodoc]

Can't speak for Tim, but awhile back people were talking about how the VP pick was going to be a reflection of Obama's "executive decision-making judgment." Now, McCain has made a major blunder in judgment by picking someone who is in no way ready for such an office. As the facts about her and her record come out, it bears light on McCain's judgment and decision-making, or, it nears light on the judgment and decision-making of whoever made that decision for him (which is also a reflection on him...). Either way, talking about Palin is talking about McCain, and McCain loses credibility.

Precisely. My husband and I were Clinton supporters, and have had qualms about Obama's experience. We had a favorable opinion of McCain despite disagreement with many of his stated positions. We suspected that he is, deep down, a moderate; and once elected, would govern as such.

However McCain's selection of Palin has made us decide to support Obama. At best, her selection was a cynical move, made for reasons that are purely political and not in the best interests of the country. At worst, it reveals that at 72, McCain is beginning to show signs of cognitive impairment. He would be a chief executive with executive dysfunction.

I am dismayed by the prospect of a President Palin. By all accounts, she populated her mayoral and gubernatorial administrations with a group of loyal sycophants. Voices of dissent were quickly silenced. A lightly-qualified executive surrounded by yes-men? This sounds a lot like George Bush's administration. And we all know how well that worked out.

A much better VP choice would have been Christine Todd Whitman, former two-term governor of New Jersey and former director of the EPA. She would have brought not only extensive executive experience but also a deep understanding of energy and environmental issues. She also would have fit into the "maverick" ideal, as she was ousted from the EPA for being a voice of dissent; and because she has, like McCain, publicly criticized the Republican establishment. She might not have been able to energize the party base; but I suspect she could have won over independent voters and Hillary Clinton supporters in droves.

[timvwcom]

Hey DB - have you ever heard of this dude named Barak Obama?

Seriously - you guys are just being intentionally dense when you bring up Palin's lack of experience, right?

I'll ask a couple quick questions for those who keep comparing Obama and Palin; specifically to quiz your beliefs of their knowledge and wisdom.

1) You seriously think that if Obama and Palin were to be administered a test on their knowledge about a) domestic affairs and b) international affairs that Obama wouldn't absolutely BURY Palin on their breadth and depth of knowledge in all the issues?

2) If Obama and Palin were asked to take ANY domestic or international issue, and a) work thru the range of possible reactions and b) each of the corresponding consequences thereof, and then c) argue why one response is superior to the rest... that Obama wouldn't DESTROY Palin every time in every issue???

I suppose you could argue that in your opinion Obama doesn't have the knowledge and wisdom to be President, but NO WAY can you argue that Obama and Palin are in the same league in those areas. Anyone who can't see this is "being intentionally dense." :rolleyes2

[Smokey McPole]

I suppose you could argue that in your opinion Obama doesn't have the knowledge and wisdom to be President,

I thought we were talking about experience here.

:confused:

As far as knowledge and wisdom are concerned - like I said, I don't think either he or Palin has it. Maybe obama has a bit more - I don't know - but so what? Obama's still unqualified. Just because he can slightly edge out some broad from AK (maybe) doesn't make him a genius. I mean Tim - basically what you're saying is that it's ok if we elect a 6th grader for Pres. because he could probably totally pwn a 4th grader. Either way - you're still voting for a 6th grader.

[tarkman1]

Palin - big ambitions with a small town arsenal. It seems she has burned a fair amount of bridges in her time in office. She's savvy. I'll give her that. I remember her email address coming up in an article about when McCain announced her as his pick. Politically, the email address just might turn out to be her Achilles Heel.

[Tippster]

47/45 McCain today, and sliding. Seems like the lipstick is wearing off...

[str8line]

Precisely. My husband and I were Clinton supporters, and have had qualms about Obama's experience. We had a favorable opinion of McCain despite disagreement with many of his stated positions. We suspected that he is, deep down, a moderate; and once elected, would govern as such.

However McCain's selection of Palin has made us decide to support Obama. At best, her selection was a cynical move, made for reasons that are purely political and not in the best interests of the country. At worst, it reveals that at 72, McCain is beginning to show signs of cognitive impairment. He would be a chief executive with executive dysfunction.

I am dismayed by the prospect of a President Palin. By all accounts, she populated her mayoral and gubernatorial administrations with a group of loyal sycophants. Voices of dissent were quickly silenced. A lightly-qualified executive surrounded by yes-men? This sounds a lot like George Bush's administration. And we all know how well that worked out.

A much better VP choice would have been Christine Todd Whitman, former two-term governor of New Jersey and former director of the EPA. She would have brought not only extensive executive experience but also a deep understanding of energy and environmental issues. She also would have fit into the "maverick" ideal, as she was ousted from the EPA for being a voice of dissent; and because she has, like McCain, publicly criticized the Republican establishment. She might not have been able to energize the party base; but I suspect she could have won over independent voters and Hillary Clinton supporters in droves.


Well said.

[timvwcom]

I thought we were talking about experience here.

:confused:

Experience is certainly one of the sources of knowledge and wisdom. Though there are others of course... But any argument that some vacuous "experience" is THE criteria for a successful/desirable/good/capable President, should be soundly thrashed when you recall that with 7.5 years as ACTUAL experience as President at this point, George W Bush could never be described as successful/desirable/good/capable.

[Smokey McPole]

with 7.5 years as ACTUAL experience as President at this point, George W Bush could never be described as successful/desirable/good/capable.

So we may as well elect a 6th grader. What kid's name do I write in?

[timvwcom]

So we may as well elect a 6th grader. What kid's name do I write in?

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7011/liwei7bm468x308cg9.jpg

[Smokey McPole]

I did like a 1/4 loop two hours ago. Totallar rad!

[rideit]

Yeah, well I spet three hours berming some climbing turns.
Less selfish, brah!

[AdironRider]

So let me get this straight...McCain being in office since 82' is to much experience and just more of the same, but Palin, with less experience doesnt have enough to lead. What amount of experience is going to make you happy, and does Obama with realistically the same amount as the VICE PRES nom (not president, the actual leader to be mind you), meet those qualifications? Just askin...

[timvwcom]

So let me get this straight...McCain being in office since 82' is to much experience and just more of the same, but Palin, with less experience doesnt have enough to lead. What amount of experience is going to make you happy, and does Obama with realistically the same amount as the VICE PRES nom (not president, the actual leader to be mind you), meet those qualifications? Just askin...

I think it's kinda like Goldilocks, no? :p

http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs11/300W/i/2006/210/7/d/Goldilocks_and_the_three_bears_by_Nocturnal_Devil. jpg

[iscariot]

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/4100/churchsignhg2.jpg

[powder11]

I won't be voting for McLame and his freak on a leash this election, but the NY Times article points out some character traits that sound like Palin has all the makings for a political dynasty. What successful politicians don't act this way? The Clintons turned cashing in personal relationships or vendettas into an art form. In the rough and tumble world of politics you have to go for the jugular and payback is a bitch; or in this case... Sarah Palin. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

[hutash]

Precisely. My husband and I were Clinton supporters, and have had qualms about Obama's experience. We had a favorable opinion of McCain despite disagreement with many of his stated positions. We suspected that he is, deep down, a moderate; and once elected, would govern as such.

However McCain's selection of Palin has made us decide to support Obama. At best, her selection was a cynical move, made for reasons that are purely political and not in the best interests of the country. At worst, it reveals that at 72, McCain is beginning to show signs of cognitive impairment. He would be a chief executive with executive dysfunction.

I am dismayed by the prospect of a President Palin. By all accounts, she populated her mayoral and gubernatorial administrations with a group of loyal sycophants. Voices of dissent were quickly silenced. A lightly-qualified executive surrounded by yes-men? This sounds a lot like George Bush's administration. And we all know how well that worked out.

A much better VP choice would have been Christine Todd Whitman, former two-term governor of New Jersey and former director of the EPA. She would have brought not only extensive executive experience but also a deep understanding of energy and environmental issues. She also would have fit into the "maverick" ideal, as she was ousted from the EPA for being a voice of dissent; and because she has, like McCain, publicly criticized the Republican establishment. She might not have been able to energize the party base; but I suspect she could have won over independent voters and Hillary Clinton supporters in droves.

Most excellent post, and could not reflect my feelings any closer. I having been trying to keep McCain asa consideration, but his choice of Palin just will not allow me to vote that ticket. Obama is not my perfect candidate, but the Obama/Biden ticket is a dam site better then a McCain/Palin ticket

[Crass3000]

She's got a nice set of titties. What else are you going to get from either ticket -- they both suck. When all else fails titties should be used to decide tie-breakers.

[timvwcom]

As the interest in Palin begins to return to a more "normal" level for a VP pick... Curious if anyone is aware of any "gottchas" (big negative side risks) still remaining for her?

Obviously the "Troopergate" issue, with it's complexities, is still hanging out there? I think the "tax issue (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/15/palin-tax-mystery-enters_n_126553.html)" regards the per diems she collected is the second biggest thing remaining? I suppose the Palin administration still trying to build the "bridge to nowhere" (http://www.propublica.org/article/palin-administration-still-pursuing-nowhere-project-913/) might qualify? It's only mildly amusing to hear she had a tanning bed installed (http://www.narconews.com/Issue54/article3191.html) in the Governors mansion.

What else remains? How long til the press gives up the investigative digging and goes back to normal type political coverage? How long til I don't post anything on politics for a week? :eek:

[YetiMan]

"Rick Steiner, a University of Alaska professor, sought the e-mail...."

well I'll be damned, I've been wondering what that fucker was up to these days
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/rfgolds/Rick%20Steiner%20Autograph%20pic-medium.png

[GimpToo]

Precisely. My husband and I were Clinton supporters, and have had qualms about Obama's experience. We had a favorable opinion of McCain despite disagreement with many of his stated positions. We suspected that he is, deep down, a moderate; and once elected, would govern as such.

However McCain's selection of Palin has made us decide to support Obama. At best, her selection was a cynical move, made for reasons that are purely political and not in the best interests of the country. At worst, it reveals that at 72, McCain is beginning to show signs of cognitive impairment. He would be a chief executive with executive dysfunction.

I am dismayed by the prospect of a President Palin. By all accounts, she populated her mayoral and gubernatorial administrations with a group of loyal sycophants. Voices of dissent were quickly silenced. A lightly-qualified executive surrounded by yes-men? This sounds a lot like George Bush's administration. And we all know how well that worked out.

A much better VP choice would have been Christine Todd Whitman, former two-term governor of New Jersey and former director of the EPA. She would have brought not only extensive executive experience but also a deep understanding of energy and environmental issues. She also would have fit into the "maverick" ideal, as she was ousted from the EPA for being a voice of dissent; and because she has, like McCain, publicly criticized the Republican establishment. She might not have been able to energize the party base; but I suspect she could have won over independent voters and Hillary Clinton supporters in droves.

I agree - well said, but I think you would have a hard time convincing many who blamed her for telling the general public that the air at Ground Zero was acceptable and safe, when, in fact, it was not. Just sayin'!

[stuckathuntermtn]

What hair-style do you think she is sporting downstairs? The full bear rug, the barren ice-flow, or the Piper Super Cub landing strip?
Who is responsible for "hot butt mud"?

[rideit]

The full bear rug, the barren ice-flow, or the Piper Super Cub landing strip?

The bridge to nowhere...

[telebobski]

...How long til the press gives up the investigative digging and goes back to normal type political coverage? How long til I don't post anything on politics for a week? :eek:

Shouldn't be long now Tim. The press by now must have interviewed all 20% of Alaskans that don't like her.

[timvwcom]

The bridge to nowhere...

This must be a parallel to the "soul patch"? :tongue:


Shouldn't be long now Tim. The press by now must have interviewed all 20% of Alaskans that don't like her.

So... you're saying only 80% to go? ;)

[13]

Precisely. My husband and I were Clinton supporters, and have had qualms about Obama's experience. We had a favorable opinion of McCain despite disagreement with many of his stated positions. We suspected that he is, deep down, a moderate; and once elected, would govern as such.

However McCain's selection of Palin has made us decide to support Obama. At best, her selection was a cynical move, made for reasons that are purely political and not in the best interests of the country. At worst, it reveals that at 72, McCain is beginning to show signs of cognitive impairment. He would be a chief executive with executive dysfunction.

I am dismayed by the prospect of a President Palin. By all accounts, she populated her mayoral and gubernatorial administrations with a group of loyal sycophants. Voices of dissent were quickly silenced. A lightly-qualified executive surrounded by yes-men? This sounds a lot like George Bush's administration. And we all know how well that worked out.

A much better VP choice would have been Christine Todd Whitman, former two-term governor of New Jersey and former director of the EPA. She would have brought not only extensive executive experience but also a deep understanding of energy and environmental issues. She also would have fit into the "maverick" ideal, as she was ousted from the EPA for being a voice of dissent; and because she has, like McCain, publicly criticized the Republican establishment. She might not have been able to energize the party base; but I suspect she could have won over independent voters and Hillary Clinton supporters in droves.

great post, neurodoc.

[splat]

I don't think comparing a law prof to a six grader will fly with even the fourth graders.
But I wouldn't put it past the Republicans to try and pass it off as a Bible verse.

[Rasputin]

As the interest in Palin begins to return to a more "normal" level for a VP pick... Curious if anyone is aware of any "gottchas" (big negative side risks) still remaining for her?

Obviously the "Troopergate" issue, with it's complexities, is still hanging out there? I think the "tax issue (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/15/palin-tax-mystery-enters_n_126553.html)" regards the per diems she collected is the second biggest thing remaining? I suppose the Palin administration still trying to build the "bridge to nowhere" (http://www.propublica.org/article/palin-administration-still-pursuing-nowhere-project-913/) might qualify? It's only mildly amusing to hear she had a tanning bed installed (http://www.narconews.com/Issue54/article3191.html) in the Governors mansion.

What else remains? How long til the press gives up the investigative digging and goes back to normal type political coverage? How long til I don't post anything on politics for a week? :eek:

Maybe the media is respondinf to demand based on the number google hits of people like you that can't stop linking to every story about her. :wink:

[splat]

Hey DB - have you ever heard of this dude named Barak Obama?

Seriously - you guys are just being intentionally dense when you bring up Palin's lack of experience, right?

I guess talking in tongues during the talent part of a beauty pageant after shooting a moose could count for something.

[Jer]

"Rick Steiner, a University of Alaska professor, sought the e-mail...."

well I'll be damned, I've been wondering what that fucker was up to these days
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/rfgolds/Rick%20Steiner%20Autograph%20pic-medium.png

Didn't he kick The Iron Sheik's ass once?

[whatcomridaz]

No, I've just given it more thought. Perhaps more objective thought than you. I just don't buy the line that Palin has more experience than Obama that the republicans are trying to shove down my throat. It isn't the amount of experience that's important to me, it's the quality and it isn't necessarily on-the-job experience. I look at Obama and I see experience in the senate and state legislature. I see someone who has a vision for the country that has been developed through life experience as well. I see someone who has run a well-managed campagin (at least, well managed enough to knock off a sure-thing political machine candidate in the primaries). Finally, I see someone who seems to give some thought to the issues and to how to address them. I think he is doing some things differently, though I'll grant you he is doing some things the same old way. But I don't think in black and white extremes, as many people who post here seem to do. I think in grey most of the time, and Obama appeals to that.

Spin that anyway you want to enhance your arguement, I still think Obama has more integrity than McCain and especially Palin. I still think Obama is more intelligent than the republican ticket, and I still think he'll make a better president. Call me a douche, zombie, whatever. Your constant focus on non-issues is getting old. Your name-calling and witless quips only reinforce that your candidate has nothing to stand on and that I have chosen the right guy.



Obama in '08. This time, I want a smart president.


Pass that pipe man cuz you got the good shit.

What I see is an unqualified man who is registering individuals who typically wouldn't consider voting in droves. People who are willing to vote for him based solely on skin color, I see a man who is a orator with his teleprompter in front of him (which he's traveling with wtf) but take that away and he would fail toastmasters and makes Bush speaking skill reasonable. I see a man who switches sides more often then McLame, and tops it off with a fresh helping of absenteism that rivals or exceeds Palins.

[Hugh Conway]

Pass that pipe man cuz you got the good shit.

What I see is an unqualified man who is registering individuals who typically wouldn't consider voting in droves. People who are willing to vote for him based solely on skin color, I see a man who is a orator with his teleprompter in front of him (which he's traveling with wtf) but take that away and he would fail toastmasters and makes Bush speaking skill reasonable. I see a man who switches sides more often then McLame, and tops it off with a fresh helping of absenteism that rivals or exceeds Palins.

You see dead people too. Now STFU and move back to broheim cascappalachia willis.

[whatcomridaz]

You see dead people too. Now STFU and move back to broheim cascappalachia willis.

Proof is the pudding, O'bother ain't done shit as a community organizer nor as a senator, his policies are the same trumped up bs that's been failing since LBJ, and aside from his economic advisor (can't place his name right now, young guy from Chicago) his staff really ain't too stellar. Maybe if you spent some time reading resumes instead of regurgitating feces from the chinchilla stuck up your ass your might be able to see through the bukake blinders Obama just delivered to your peepholes.


Disclaimer: I won't be voting Repub this election, third party/smaller gubberment is the only way to accomplish CHANGE

[Hugh Conway]

Proof is the pudding, O'bother ain't done shit as a community organizer nor as a senator, his policies are the same trumped up bs that's been failing since LBJ, and aside from his economic advisor (can't place his name right now, young guy from Chicago) his staff really ain't too stellar. Maybe if you spent some time reading resumes instead of regurgitating feces from the chinchilla stuck up your ass your might be able to see through the bukake blinders Obama just delivered to your peepholes.


Disclaimer: I won't be voting Repub this election, third party/smaller gubberment is the only way to accomplish CHANGE

Voting third party and accusing someone else of being clueless = pricelessly out of touch with American politics.

[whatcomridaz]

Voting third party and accusing someone else of being clueless = pricelessly out of touch with American politics.

You're right the two party status quo has done so much for us as individuals, that a protest vote wouldn't seem pertinent:rolleyes:. Things aren't going to change if you keep voting for the same guys who are controlled by the same special interests. Perhaps a migration to a single term presidency is in order?

[David Witherspoon]

voting third party/smaller gubberment is the best way to accomplish NOTHING
_________

[timvwcom]

Change will come in small steps, that's how our Constitution was designed. By not trying to move the ball towards your goal, and instead voting for a third party in a close election purely for spite, you clearly aren't any help to your cause.

[Hugh Conway]

Perhaps a migration to a single term presidency is in order?

Having lived in a state with a mandatory single term governorship, no, it's not. He doesn't have to keep the state together for the 4 years until he runs for reelection.

[AKA]

sounds an awful lot like uncle george.

[Hott Butt Mud]

PALIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!