$111,645.00

[Tele'ndaboat]

Smart Money(a librodouche pub I'm sure) says this is the magic number. Make less and Obama's better for your wallet, more and it's McCain.

Just throwing that out there.

[Dirty Hoar]

Oh yeah, Republicans use "magic numbers". ;)

Have you heard about the $250,000 real numbers?

[Hutch]

newsflash: Presidents don't write the Internal Revenue Code.

[Mathematics]

www.obamataxcut.com

punch in your income & see

[PowTron]

Why can people just not do a little, simple research and find out what Obama is really about and what his tax plan is, instead of wasting it on spreading lies??

Oh, that's right....he is "liberal", which makes him bad somehow.


I mean, the founding fathers of our country were extreme liberals and everyone hates them, right?


:the_finge:the_finge:the_finge:the_finge:the_finge un-eduated haters

[Tele'ndaboat]

This wasn't just about tax cuts, I'd post the article but I have that old fashion paper thing. Taken into account was their thoughts on dealing with the housing crisis, Health insurance, investments, and taxes. Just an interesting article in a financial mag. Obviously this is what they are proposing not what they have actually accomplished, somehow I thought that would go without saying, seeing as an election hasn't happened.

[Adolf Allerbush]

www.obamataxcut.com

punch in your income & see

Good website...also based of of the non-partisan TPC:


Obama has proposed raising the payroll tax for those earning over $250,000. Again, he has not provided details, but TPC assumes this would be a 2 percent income tax surcharge on adjusted gross income above $250,000 for couples and $200,000 for others and an additional 2 percent payroll tax for employers on each worker’s earnings above those levels. Such a plan would increase taxes on high-income workers by nearly $400 billion over a decade.
In the July 23 update of its analysis, TPC added a preliminary estimate of the candidates’ health care proposals. Because the campaigns did not provide complete plans, TPC assumed certain details. We conclude that the McCain plan, which would replace the current exclusion for employer-paid premiums with a refundable income tax credit of up to $5000 for anyone purchasing of health insurance and make other changes to the healthcare system, would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years and modestly trim the number of uninsured. The Obama plan, which would make relatively low-cost insurance available to everyone through non-group pools and subsidize premiums for low- and moderate-income households, would cost $1.6 trillion, but would also cover virtually all children and many currently uninsured adults.

Why do the supporters of the McCain have blinders on about this?

[Toadman]

Why can people just not do a little, simple research and find out what Obama is really about and what his tax plan is, instead of wasting it on spreading lies??

Oh, that's right....he is "liberal", which makes him bad somehow.


I mean, the founding fathers of our country were extreme liberals and everyone hates them, right?


:the_finge:the_finge:the_finge:the_finge:the_finge un-eduated haters

I get my info on Obama from the McCain campaign. Those guys are all about the truth. They'd never lie to us Patriotic Americans, would they?

[hutash]

www.obamataxcut.com

punch in your income & see

Woot, woot...If Obama wins I get to go heli skiing:rolleyes2

I know who I'm voting for:D

[The AD]

www.obamataxcut.com

punch in your income & see

But, but that says Obama will lower my taxes. How can that be? The Republicans are telling me he wants to raise everyone's taxes.

[Mathematics]

But, but that says Obama will lower my taxes. How can that be? The Republicans are telling me he wants to raise everyone's taxes.

http://ktracy.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/stupidmccain.jpg

[warthog]

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/images/2008/06/12/wsj_tax_chart.gif

I think this is the graph that I saw about this. TimVW.whateverthefuck from Wisconsin posted it, so it must be somewhat prObama, but it sure seems to go against what is being said.

Won't know till he is in I guess.

[Tippster]

Your Obama Tax Cut is: $4,426.76 So I get an administrative agenda I believe in AND a tax cut? Sweet!

[Sensisnow]

Only saving $980.92, but hell, that still beats owing money.

[Rubicon]

"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."---Alexis de Tocqueville


:nonono2:

[Staggerwing]

Rubicon gets it.

If I ran my finances like we let the politicos run those of our country, I'd be in jail. As a country, how can we, year after year, continue to spend more than we take in. And yet, both sides promise to leave more in our pocket, all to great rounds of applause. Yet, it is OUR money, that they are spending.

[Tippster]

McCain wants to double the tax credit for children -- from $3500 to $7000.

I'm a father of two and we make a good living as far as the Govt. knows. My wife owns a small business and I am now a contractor. I'd probably get to keep more money with McCain. Your point, Mr. DeToqueville quoter?

[Smokey McPole]

Why can people just not do a little, simple research and find out what Obama is really about and what his tax plan is, instead of wasting it on spreading lies??


Because the average dumbfuck ignorant stupid retarded asshate fvcktard American has things like a job and kids and doesn't have 18 hours a day to research the candidate online? Damn Americans, boy this country sure does suck!

PowTron - you dopes are constantly screaming "Why doesn't anybody do any research? Why don't they try to find out what Obama really meant? Why don't they get a degree in Economics, Business, Poly Sci, and Sociology so they understand what Obama's all about?" Very few people are gonna devote thier lives to researching a candidate. It's called reality.

[Sir Jongalot]

Because the average dumbfuck ignorant stupid retarded asshate fvcktard American has things like a job and kids and doesn't have 18 hours a day to research the candidate online? ... It's called reality.

Jer is right. We simply dont have time guys.

Cause we are spending our time on other more important things...see the Bureau of Labor stats here...http://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t01.htm

For example we spend 2.62 hour a day watching TV. What do yo libroducks expect? The average american to give up some of that important TV time?

Gotta go - the replay of the last American Idol is on..

sgOWTM5R2DA

[doughboyshredder]

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/images/2008/06/12/wsj_tax_chart.gif

I think this is the graph that I saw about this. TimVW.whateverthefuck from Wisconsin posted it, so it must be somewhat prObama, but it sure seems to go against what is being said.

Won't know till he is in I guess.


Current tax law is that the Bush tax cuts will expire so this is misleading.

[timvwcom]

Great motivation to make more than 110,000 a year!

Fuck, Fuck, Fuck, Fuck, Fuck

Will one of you fiscal liberals explain to me why we should increase taxes on people so drastically after they reach a certain figure...

You need to find a source of data with that top range expanded to have enough information to understand... Note that this analysis lumps EVERYONE above $110K a year together, so tax changes for those making $10 million and $110 million are WAY skewing the number. I am aware that on the income tax part, Obama's plan would have tax CUTS for everyone below $250K.

Also, a few other things to remember regards taxes... you still pay the lower rate on the first portions of your income, it's only the parts ABOVE the cut offs that are taxed at the higher rate. At these higher rates the tax code has numerous loop holes/methods to avoid paying much of your taxes. So even if tax rates were a historically moderate 50% for incomes above $1 million dollars (they aren't), if you made that million you wouldn't be likely to end up paying anywhere near $500K in taxes.

I've often joked that I'd love to owe $5 million in income taxes, because it would mean I've made $15 to $30 million that year... And lastly, you do know that the top tax rate was 94% at one point about 60 years ago? :eek: It's still going to be quite low historically (http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php) if it bumps up 2%;

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates-graph.php

(Well, how'd I do?)

[nick > jesus]

this does not take into account any money you make via capital gains, in which case you get fucked by obama

[smitchell333]

this does not take into account any money you make via capital gains, in which case you get fucked by obama

Well not exactly, unless you are quite rich and then it'd be a 5% increase

It seems that McCain would keep the current 15% cap gains, while Obama would increase the rate to 20% for those with individual filer income above $200K and joint filers above $250K. Obama would also provide some capital gains at 0% for small businesses.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/risky-business/2008/09/12/obama-vs-mccain--the-battle-for-the-small-business-vote.html

http://www.star-telegram.com/business/story/905648.html

[timvwcom]

this does not take into account any money you make via capital gains, in which case you get fucked by obama

I can see both sides of the argument regards capital gains...

But I do have one LARGE beef with the concept that capital gains should be taxed at some lower rate. Please explain to me specifically, why the "Paris Hilton's" of the world, who might make most of their income from capital gains on inherited wealth investments, rather than actual work... should be taxed at some low rate, while normal schlubs like you and me, should pay a higher rate when we actually go out and WORK for our money?

Until I see some clear rationale why this is a good thing (and admittedly I have not studied this issue in detail), I have no big problem with a tax strategy that taxes capital gains at the same rate as earned income. I don't care if you have to lower one or raise the other, but don't let "Paris" sit on the beach or dine at the cafe and pay a fraction of the taxes on her income that you and I do!!!



Please accept the following gratuitous Paris pics as a partial apology for invoking her name in a serious discussion;

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/news/supergirl/paris-hilton.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/xoplayboy/R-BShkhfsBI/AAAAAAAAHRQ/l1XXffUsUKY/s400/paris_hilton_944_7.jpg

http://www.oktat.com/pictures/img/paris_hilton_04.jpg

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Paris-Hilton-ta02.jpg

http://thewrongadvices.com/info-extras/Paris-Hilton.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i13/cudasgirl/0706_paris_hilton_tanning_ramey_ful.jpg

[Tippster]

Because the rich deserve the money they "earn."

[timvwcom]

Because the rich deserve the money they "earn."

Assume this was a play on the Smith Barney thing... :smile:

But just to clarify, I don't think those who inherit wealth and have fancy tax dodge investment strategies should pay less OR more than the rest of us.

[Tippster]

I think income should be income, be it a paycheck, a dividend check, or profit on the sale of an investment. I'm actually a proponent of a flat tax - pay 10-15% across the board, no BS deductions. If you make more than a certain minimum level you pay the same percentage everyone else does.

You'd think this would be popular with the wealthy who whine about how high their tax bracket is, yet since you cannot hide your income they would actually pay more.

[doughboyshredder]

You need to find a source of data with that top range expanded to have enough information to understand... Note that this analysis lumps EVERYONE above $110K a year together, so tax changes for those making $10 million and $110 million are WAY skewing the number. I am aware that on the income tax part, Obama's plan would have tax CUTS for everyone below $250K.

Also, a few other things to remember regards taxes... you still pay the lower rate on the first portions of your income, it's only the parts ABOVE the cut offs that are taxed at the higher rate. At these higher rates the tax code has numerous loop holes/methods to avoid paying much of your taxes. So even if tax rates were a historically moderate 50% for incomes above $1 million dollars (they aren't), if you made that million you wouldn't be likely to end up paying anywhere near $500K in taxes.

I've often joked that I'd love to owe $5 million in income taxes, because it would mean I've made $15 to $30 million that year... And lastly, you do know that the top tax rate was 94% at one point about 60 years ago? :eek: It's still going to be quite low historically (http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php) if it bumps up 2%;

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates-graph.php

(Well, how'd I do?)

Damn good, especially considering you quoted my post before I edited it.

[mr_gyptian]

I think income should be income, be it a paycheck, a dividend check, or profit on the sale of an investment. I'm actually a proponent of a flat tax - pay 10-15% across the board, no BS deductions. If you make more than a certain minimum level you pay the same percentage everyone else does.

You'd think this would be popular with the wealthy who whine about how high their tax bracket is, yet since you cannot hide your income they would actually pay more.

do you really think wealthy have such dodges that they pay less than 15%?

there's obviously no way to really prove this outside of hacking the IRS database, but it is highly unlikely.

unless you pull a move like John Templeton by renouncing your citizenship moving to the bahamas.

[timvwcom]

do you really think wealthy have such dodges that they pay less than 15%?

there's obviously no way to really prove this outside of hacking the IRS database, but it is highly unlikely.

unless you pull a move like John Templeton by renouncing your citizenship moving to the bahamas.

Based on my memory, studies show a flat tax would have to be much higher than 15% to retain current tax receipts.

As far as a GREAT example of what the wealthy REALLY pay in taxes? Don't judge your decision on the tax charts and graphs created by the anti-tax fanatics or wealthy right wing think tanks... Use an obvious real life example.

Oh, guess what... I've got one right here;


Buffett blasts system that lets him pay less tax than secretary (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece)

June 28, 2007

Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.

Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: “The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.”

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation.

The comments are among the most signficant yet in a debate raging on both sides of the Atlantic about growing income inequality and how the super-wealthy are taxed.

They echo those made this month by Nicholas Ferguson, one of the leading figures in Britain’s private equity industry, when he criticised tax rates that left its multimillionaire venture capitalists “paying less tax than a cleaning lady”.

Last week senior members of the US Senate proposed to increase the rate of tax that private equity and hedge fund staff pay on their share of the profits, known as carried interest, from the 15 per cent capital gains rate to about 35 per cent.

Lloyd Blankfein, the chief executive of Goldman Sachs, acknowledged in an interview yesterday that there were justified concerns about the huge profits generated by private equity firms and that he worried that income inequality was “poisoning democracy”. He also said that he would be voting for the Democrat candidate at the next election. Mr Blankfein is the highest-paid executive on Wall Street, earning $54 million last year.

Mr Buffett, who runs the investment group Berkshire Hathaway and is widely regarded as the world’s most successful investor, said that he was a Democrat because Republicans are more likely to think: “I’m making $80 million a year – God must have intended me to have a lower tax rate.”

Mr Buffett said that a Republican proposal to eliminate elements of inheritance tax, which raises about $30 billion a year from the assets of about 12,000 rich families, would broaden the disparity between rich and poor. He added that the Republicans would seek to recover lost revenue by increasing taxes for the less prosperous.

He said: “You could take that $30 billion and give $1,000 to 30 million poor families. Or should you favour the 12,000 estates and make 30 million families pay an extra $1,000?”

[mr_gyptian]

Based on my memory, studies show a flat tax would have to be much higher than 15% to retain current tax receipts.

As far as a GREAT example of what the wealthy REALLY pay in taxes? Don't judge your decision on the tax charts and graphs created by the anti-tax fanatics or wealthy right wing think tanks... Use an obvious real life example.

Oh, guess what... I've got one right here;

as they say, the IRS is more than willing to take checks over and above the amount your accountant settles on. If he has a problem with only paying 17 percent then he should put his money where his mouth is.

but the sage of omaha paid over $8 million in taxes while his secretary paid $18,000.

also when people quibble about individual income taxes and relate it to budget deficits and underfunded programs such as social security and medicare/caid it is intelectually dishonest at best and a gross statement of incompetence at worst. As I've posted ad nauseum, one corporation Exxon Mobil paid more in income taxes in 2007 than the bottom 55% of US taxpayers.

collectively, we're a rounding error.

[timvwcom]

As I've posted ad nauseum, one corporation Exxon Mobil paid more in income taxes in 2007 than the bottom 55% of US taxpayers.

collectively, we're a rounding error.

This statistic doesn't really mean anything, as the bottom 50% of tax payers only pay 3% of the total taxes. When we start making changes to the top 20% of tax payers, now we are talking some real money...

[Powow]

but the sage of omaha paid over $8 million in taxes while his secretary paid $18,000.
Are you seriously arguing for an absolute flat tax (as opposed to a proportional flat tax)? Because the buffet example is already less progressive than a flat tax. I don't think even the looniest of the libertarians is arguing for anything more than a flat tax.

[truth]

Welcome to June 11th. (http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm)

[mr_gyptian]

This statistic doesn't really mean anything, as the bottom 50% of tax payers only pay 3% of the total taxes. When we start making changes to the top 20% of tax payers, now we are talking some real money...

because they don't foot enough of the bill already?


I don't know where I've argued for a flat tax. I agree with most of the graduated system we have in place. I really just want a more simplified system. One that doesn't cause both individuals and corporations to move monies off shore to avoid taxes.

[13]

because they don't foot enough of the bill already?


I don't know where I've argued for a flat tax. I agree with most of the graduated system we have in place. I really just want a more simplified system. One that doesn't cause both individuals and corporations to move monies off shore to avoid taxes.

you make it sound as if offshoring is sooooooo easy.

[timvwcom]

Welcome to June 11th. (http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm)

http://www.timvw.com/whooohooo/truth_tax_find.jpg

[Vets]

McCain wants to double the tax credit for children -- from $3500 to $7000.

I'm a father of two and we make a good living as far as the Govt. knows. My wife owns a small business and I am now a contractor. I'd probably get to keep more money with McCain. Your point, Mr. DeToqueville quoter?

Doubling the tax credit for children had to be part of Palin's signing bonus from McCain. Think about it, she has five kids.
Too bad the additional tax credit won't adequately offset the McCain turbo charging of the Bush Admin's failed economic policies.

[tone capone]

Those are some DIRRTY Paris pics. Partial apology accepted! Awaiting the Full Unabridged Version of your apology

[Rubicon]

Your point, Mr. DeToqueville quoter?

DeToqueville's words come to mind every time I hear someone talking about how much they will personally benefit from one candidate or another.

I'm resisting the urge to go on a rant. But I will say that our politicians love to dole out tax payer money and give tax breaks in exchange for our tacit acceptance of their fiscal irresponsibility. They are, in a sense, bribing us with our own money.

Even in conversations here, when I point out how much Obama is going to increase the size of government, to people who bitch and moan about how Bush has totally wrecked the economy, the standard response is(paraphrased) "what are you complaining about, Obama is going to give you a tax break"...


...we do have the ability to destroy ourselves. We have such an ordered and safe society the idea that we are responsible for our own safety with an unqualified risk, is something most people have a hard time wrapping their brain around, so they don't even bother to try.

[timvwcom]

Those are some DIRRTY Paris pics. Partial apology accepted! Awaiting the Full Unabridged Version of your apology

Me apologize? Never!!!

Just to spite your rude assumption that I would EVER even consider apologizing, here are some more Paris pics...

http://nude-celebrities.horndog.com/nude-celebrities/paris-hilton-nude/images/paris-hilton-02.jpg

http://yeeeah.com//wp-content/uploads/2006/05/paris_hilton_video.jpg

http://media.santabanta.com/gallery/Global%20Celebrities(F)/Paris%20Hilton/paris%20hilton2v.jpg

http://www.pop-starx.com/photos-paris-hilton/paris-hilton-24.jpg

http://paris-hilton.myhqpics.com/images/paris-hilton-porn-video-January-05-2007.jpg

http://www.181st.net/paris-hilton-sex-video-download/pictures/Paris_Hilton_blow%20job.jpg

http://www.joomeara.info/ParisHilton/images/001%20Paris%20Hilton%20Sex%20Video%20Shot%20-%20Fucking.jpg

http://gibi.pixfarm.info/files/pics/161/160339/img_1_pr.jpg

http://www.theradreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/paris_hilton_nipple.jpg

Now get lost!

[Cliff Huckable]

Because the average dumbfuck ignorant stupid retarded asshate fvcktard American has things like a job and kids and doesn't have 18 hours a day to research the candidate online? Damn Americans, boy this country sure does suck!

PowTron - you dopes are constantly screaming "Why doesn't anybody do any research? Why don't they try to find out what Obama really meant? Why don't they get a degree in Economics, Business, Poly Sci, and Sociology so they understand what Obama's all about?" Very few people
[in the United States of America]
are gonna devote thier lives to researching a candidate. It's called reality.

Clarified it for you.
Your implied words, not mine.

[Smokey McPole]

Clarified it for you.
Your implied words, not mine.

I won't argue that. You do know that this election we're talking about is taking place in the US, don't you?


Tim - it's like you can get VD just from looking at those photos of Paris.

[David Witherspoon]

DeToqueville's words come to mind every time ...... I hear some politician propose a TAX REFUND!!
See, tax cuts are just too subtle. The gummint needs to cut you a check, preferably purty offen, and then you'll understand that they own you.

Alaska is waaaay ahead of the rest of the country on this point.

[sirbumpsalot]

do you really think wealthy have such dodges that they pay less than 15%?

there's obviously no way to really prove this outside of hacking the IRS database, but it is highly unlikely.

unless you pull a move like John Templeton by renouncing your citizenship moving to the bahamas.

Biden and his wife paid 13% FED income tax on their 300K+ income last year - seems someone had some shelters/writeoffs....

[David Witherspoon]

Pfft, what do percentages matter when tens of millions are being casually tossed your way?
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=5821887&page=1