Palin Resonates, Elite Liberals Dumbfounded

[Crud's Uncle]

Reading through these threads and listening to the media, the liberals are dumbfounded by Sarah. they fail to understand why their attacks have not sent Sarah back to the Great North.

More people watched Sarah's speech than Obamas. The average American identifies with Sarah. Her family is similar to many of ours. She shares most of our values. Not that everyone agrees with everything, but for the most part she is on the same page as the average American. We feel that she is the only politician that shares our values and lives.

McCain is rich. Obama is rich. Both are part of the elite. Obama has terrorists as friends. He belongs to a radiacal anti-white anti-American church. He was/is a Muslim. His life is the anti-thesis of the average American.

The average American struggles supporting their family, they work hard, they struggle with kids that rebel, they respect America, they have not traveled overseas, etc.

The more the elite slam their flag bearer, the more they are going to dig their heels in. Sarah resonates with the majority of the electorate, we know in our gut that she is the right choice.

Call us stupid, call us unenlightened, call us sheep, but realize that we hold the same opinion of you.

[pisteoff]

Antithesis is one word. :fm::D






Sarah resonates with the majority of the electorate
Not really. The electorate is pretty evenly split.

2004 popular vote 50.7% to 48.3%
2000 popular vote 47.9% to 48.4%


we know in our gut that she is the right choice.
See, that scares the shit out of me... people who vote with their guts rather than their brains.

[Mani_UT]

Call us stupid, call us unenlightened, call us sheep, but realize that we hold the same opinion of you.

Sure you can hold the same opinion.. Only in your case it is baseless as the rest of your ideology. Good things more and more migrants are coming over to bring some fresh non inbred blood to this country. :D

[Crud's Uncle]

Proves my point
Antithesis is one word.

[Crud's Uncle]

ooo that hurts.
Sure you can hold the same opinion.. Only in your case it is baseless as the rest of your ideology. Good things more and more migrants are coming over to bring some fresh non inbred blood to this country. :D

[Crud's Uncle]

Who is better to deal with Putin?

http://www.amdgadvisors.com/download.jpg


or

http://www.amdgadvisors.com/download1.jpg

[pisteoff]

Proves my point
I aim to please:D


Who is better to deal with Putin?

This guy... he looks 'connected'.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45951&stc=1&d=1220976860

[Mani_UT]

ooo that hurts.

I am not trying to hurt just stating facts. I truely love the USA the way they are. I came to this country because the average american is soft. Europe is much too competitive. Here, with minimal amounts of work it is easy to be earning good money as the competition is so ill prepared.

[Crud's Uncle]

Maybe you should have learned the language a little better. Calling me inbred is not a fact.

[Rubicon]

I am not trying to hurt just stating facts. I truely love the USA the way they are. I came to this country because the average american is soft. Europe is much too competitive. Here, with minimal amounts of work it is easy to be earning good money as the competition is so ill prepared.


I'm glad you are able to take part in the massive prosperity our culture has created :wink:

[Crud's Uncle]

Drug dealer?

There is more to life than money.
I am not trying to hurt just stating facts. I truely love the USA the way they are. I came to this country because the average american is soft. Europe is much too competitive. Here, with minimal amounts of work it is easy to be earning good money as the competition is so ill prepared.

[Mani_UT]

I'm glad you are able to take part in the massive prosperity our culture has created :wink:

I am glad too and I am returning the favor by generating millions of $ of exports back to Europe to help a little our trade deficit

[Mani_UT]

Drug dealer?
There is more to life than money.

I totally agree. But making good money while skiing 4x a week is not possible in a competitive environment unless you're exceptional. Here it's easy. thank you for making this possible.

[The AD]

I'm sort of puzzled why people want Joe or Jane Average to be their President or VP. I'd rather have someone who is truly exceptional. Now, maybe you don't think Obama is that person, but I don't understand the appeal of someone who is "just like us..." Yes, I know I'm in the minority with this opinion. It seems like the last eight years have shown that someone who comes across as an Average Joe isn't necessarily a good thing.

[spindrift]

Call us stupid, call us unenlightened, call us sheep, but realize that we hold the same opinion of you.

Hey, let's skip the adjective thing. I'm just confused why people like you would rally behind a person who is readily proved a liar, who's management and contingency planning skills are manifestly poor, who is a walking talking fiscal disaster area and who seemingly is unaware of the contents of the Constitution. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

[GordonShumway]

Reading through these threads and listening to the media, the liberals are dumbfounded by Sarah. they fail to understand why their attacks have not sent Sarah back to the Great North.

More people watched Sarah's speech than Obamas. The average American identifies with Sarah. Her family is similar to many of ours. She shares most of our values. Not that everyone agrees with everything, but for the most part she is on the same page as the average American. We feel that she is the only politician that shares our values and lives.

McCain is rich. Obama is rich. Both are part of the elite. Obama has terrorists as friends. He belongs to a radiacal anti-white anti-American church. He was/is a Muslim. His life is the anti-thesis of the average American.

The average American struggles supporting their family, they work hard, they struggle with kids that rebel, they respect America, they have not traveled overseas, etc.

The more the elite slam their flag bearer, the more they are going to dig their heels in. Sarah resonates with the majority of the electorate, we know in our gut that she is the right choice.

Call us stupid, call us unenlightened, call us sheep, but realize that we hold the same opinion of you.


Congratulations, you might be the dumbest person ever encountered on the internetz. Please do the world (not just the US) a favor and don't vote, as you're far too stupid to be trusted choosing the next leaded of the free world. But this really brings up a good question... are retards legally allowed to vote? Serious question.

[Crud's Uncle]

LOL I was not going to vote, before McCain picked Palin. Now I am, along with three other family members.

[Crud's Uncle]

Because I do not believe your characterization of her. She is not perfect, but she has more integrity than the alternative.


Hey, let's skip the adjective thing. I'm just confused why people like you would rally behind a person who is readily proved a liar, who's management and contingency planning skills are manifestly poor, who is a walking talking fiscal disaster area and who seemingly is unaware of the contents of the Constitution. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

[Crud's Uncle]

I do not disgree with you. However, populism is in a large part why Clinton was elected. It is what it is.

I personally think Palin and McCain are more qualified to be elected than Obama and Biden. I do not buy into the myth that Obama is wicked smart, nor do I buy into that he has any relevant foreign policy decision making experience, nor do I trust him. My vote for Palin is based on my analysis of her character and experience vis a vis Obama, than her appeal as an average American. However, a large number of people will vote based on their feelings.
I'm sort of puzzled why people want Joe or Jane Average to be their President or VP. I'd rather have someone who is truly exceptional. Now, maybe you don't think Obama is that person, but I don't understand the appeal of someone who is "just like us..." Yes, I know I'm in the minority with this opinion. It seems like the last eight years have shown that someone who comes across as an Average Joe isn't necessarily a good thing.

[Rideski]

I'm sort of puzzled why people want Joe or Jane Average to be their President or VP. I'd rather have someone who is truly exceptional. Now, maybe you don't think Obama is that person, but I don't understand the appeal of someone who is "just like us..." Yes, I know I'm in the minority with this opinion. It seems like the last eight years have shown that someone who comes across as an Average Joe isn't necessarily a good thing.


How did Bush come across as an average Joe? The son of a previous POTUS?

People (right or wrong) like the average person politician, because they feel they will sympathize with their plight and structure laws and taxes that will allow them to climb up the food chain even a small bit.

[hutash]

Reading through these threads and listening to the media, the liberals are dumbfounded by Sarah. they fail to understand why their attacks have not sent Sarah back to the Great North.

More people watched Sarah's speech than Obamas. The average American identifies with Sarah. Her family is similar to many of ours. She shares most of our values. Not that everyone agrees with everything, but for the most part she is on the same page as the average American. We feel that she is the only politician that shares our values and lives.

McCain is rich. Obama is rich. Both are part of the elite. Obama has terrorists as friends. He belongs to a radiacal anti-white anti-American church. He was/is a Muslim. His life is the anti-thesis of the average American.

The average American struggles supporting their family, they work hard, they struggle with kids that rebel, they respect America, they have not traveled overseas, etc.

The more the elite slam their flag bearer, the more they are going to dig their heels in. Sarah resonates with the majority of the electorate, we know in our gut that she is the right choice.

Call us stupid, call us unenlightened, call us sheep, but realize that we hold the same opinion of you.

Just wow...this just reinforces the point made through out many threads that 49% of the electorate vote with their assholes and not there head. Reread your post and think about just how stupid that is. If you can't think before you vote, don't vote. If you have a good reason to vote for McCain/Palin that's fine, but because we like her and she is really neato is not a reason.

It is best to keep quiet and let people think you are an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Crud's Uncle]

Let's say all that is true. Isn't it better than voting for a man that is a friend and business associate of unapologetic terrorists? Perhaps you can enlighten me?
Hey, let's skip the adjective thing. I'm just confused why people like you would rally behind a person who is readily proved a liar, who's management and contingency planning skills are manifestly poor, who is a walking talking fiscal disaster area and who seemingly is unaware of the contents of the Constitution. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

[Buster Highmen]

The reasons I'm dumbfounded are because:
0) She raised taxes on oil companies that get paid out to the citizens of Alaska. I guess I've forgotten how to define socialism. So you small government whiners should explain this to me.
1) During her mayoral position in Wasilla, she left a $20 million deficit. I guess I'm still mystified regarding the economic position of the current GOP. And as govenor of Alaska, she raised taxes on groceries:
During her 6
years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over
33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the
City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation
(1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a
regressive sales tax which taxed even food.

On the other hand, I guess I'm not so dumbfounded given the beauty queen mentality of our electorate.

[ski_adk]

This whole "Palin is resonating in the face of an angry left and adverse media" craze reminds me of a comic I saw recently:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/luckey115/persecuting.jpg

[Buster Highmen]

If you can't think before you vote, don't vote.

How __very__ unAmerican of you.



If you have a good reason to vote for McCain/Palin that's fine, but because we like her and she is really neato is not a reason.
Unfortunately, virtually all of these posts prove exactly that. It's nothing more than another version of American Idol.

[Crud's Uncle]

In a way he was. he was a good ole boy from Texas.

His opponent was an elite Northeasterner married to a rich girl. Compared to Kerry and Gore for that matter, Bush had a populist appeal.
How did Bush come across as an average Joe? The son of a previous POTUS?

People (right or wrong) like the average person politician, because they feel they will sympathize with their plight and structure laws and taxes that will allow them to climb up the food chain even a small bit.

[ski_adk]

Let's say all that is true. Isn't it better than voting for a man that is a friend and business associate of unapologetic terrorists? Perhaps you can enlighten me?

PROVE THESE ALLEGATIONS!!!

[The AD]

How did Bush come across as an average Joe? The son of a previous POTUS?

Yes, maybe he shouldn't have, but he pulled it off pretty well. No one would ever say George W Bush came across as an elitist, that's for sure.

edit: see, I'm "reaching across the aisle" (how many more times do we need to hear that phrase?) and agreeing with Crud's Uncle.

[Crud's Uncle]

He announced his candidacy at Bill Ayer's and Bernadette Dohrn's house. That is proof enough for most of us.

[Buster Highmen]

PROVE THESE ALLEGATIONS!!!

They sat on the same board in Chicago and the guy hosted Obama's senatorial debut at his home.

Clearly, they have sex. With bin Laden. All three. Whoopeeeeeee!!!

[Buster Highmen]

He announced his candidacy at Bill Ayer's and Bernadette Dohrn's house. That is proof enough for most of us.

Now that's sad. Or ridiculous. Or pathetic.

[Crud's Uncle]

First, I am voting for Palin, because I like her on balance vis a vis Obama and Biden. Your analysis probably differs, but sobeit, that is what makes a market.

You are missing the point. Your attitude that anyone that does not agree with your analysis is an idiot, is the elite arrogance that repels the average American. The average American does not agree with your contention that they are idiots. Many vote with their guts. If they did not, Democrats would not be elected as often as they are. For example any thinking UAW member would not have voted for Gore, since Gore advocated eliminating the internal combustion engine. Blacks would no longer vote for Democrats, because they have done nothing to improve their lot over the 50 plus years they ruled Congress.

Like I said, I do not agree with making a decision based on emotions. However, I am realisitic and understand that it is a major driver for most voters.

In addition, if most of the rabid Obama supporters are intellectually honest, they have to agree that their support is based on emotion rather than facts. The facts are that the man has very little relevant experience, he has close ties to criminals, he attended a church with an anti-American and anti-white philosophy, when off prompter he has a diffiult time putting coherent thoughts together, etc.

[Hugh Conway]

I do not disgree with you. However, populism is in a large part why Clinton was elected. It is what it is.

Huh? Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar for fucks sake. Palin is another Alaskan welfare jesus freak.


In addition, if most of the rabid Obama supporters are intellectually honest, they have to agree that their support is based on emotion rather than facts. The facts are that the man has very little relevant experience, he has close ties to criminals, he attended a church with an anti-American and anti-white philosophy, when off prompter he has a diffiult time putting coherent thoughts together, etc.

Everything you said can be said about Palin x10. Unless of course you are down with "Jews for Jesus"

[Crud's Uncle]

Oh you are right. He obviously does not know or like him. The Obama blinders are unbelievable. Maybe he is the anti-Christ.
They sat on the same board in Chicago and the guy hosted Obama's senatorial debut at his home.

Clearly, they have sex. With bin Laden. All three. Whoopeeeeeee!!!

[Crud's Uncle]

Clinton was a good old boy. He was handsome. Remember the soccer moms.
Huh? Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar for fucks sake. Palin is another Alaskan welfare jesus freak.



Everything you said can be said about Palin x10. Unless of course you are down with "Jews for Jesus"

[David Witherspoon]

I personally think ..
You've already demonstrated, beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt, that you, in fact, do not think.
Personally or otherwise.

[Cliff Huckable]

Reading through these threads and listening to the media, the liberals are dumbfounded by Sarah. they fail to understand why their attacks have not sent Sarah back to the Great North.

More people watched Sarah's speech than Obamas. The average American identifies with Sarah. Her family is similar to many of ours. She shares most of our values. Not that everyone agrees with everything, but for the most part she is on the same page as the average American. We feel that she is the only politician that shares our values and lives.

McCain is rich. Obama is rich. Both are part of the elite. Obama has terrorists as friends. He belongs to a radiacal anti-white anti-American church. He was/is a Muslim. His life is the anti-thesis of the average American.

The average American struggles supporting their family, they work hard, they struggle with kids that rebel, they respect America, they have not traveled overseas, etc.

The more the elite slam their flag bearer, the more they are going to dig their heels in. Sarah resonates with the majority of the electorate, we know in our gut that she is the right choice.

Call us stupid, call us unenlightened, call us sheep, but realize that we hold the same opinion of you.

You need to read a history of propaganda. Seriously. What could it hurt? I'm not kidding. Read one, any one. "Right" or "left", take your picK. Just read a history of propaganda, OK?

[Crud's Uncle]

Which terrorists is she associated with? She has executive experience, Obama has none. Her church is similar to the ones many American's attend(not mine FWIW). In your mind , there may be an analogy, however most don't think like you.

Everything you said can be said about Palin x10. Unless of course you are down with "Jews for Jesus"

[Crud's Uncle]

At least you and I have that in common.
You've already demonstrated, beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt, that you, in fact, do not think.
Personally or otherwise.

[Hugh Conway]

She has executive experience

Building roads and services to a piece of land you don't have title. Check.
Increasing long term debt by $3,000 per residnet. Check

sounds like the kind of politician Americans love who'll fuck America over and Americans are too fucking dumb to realize why.

[Crud's Uncle]

I have, and that is why I in general I am apathetic when it comes to politics. The Obama campaign is pure propaganda as is the McCain.

Maybe Palin is part of the power structure and I am being deceived. However, it does not really matter. It costs me nothing to vote, and I am sure that Obama is a worse choice.
You need to read a history of propaganda. Seriously. What could it hurt? I'm not kidding. Read one, any one. "Right" or "left", take your picK. Just read a history of propaganda, OK?

[spindrift]

A brief tutorial on the foundational premises of CU's political views and analysis:

OsgQcQbUG2M

Case closed. Can we end this thread now?

[Crud's Uncle]

Maybe a Dale Carneige course may help. Insulting those that disagree with you does not add up to winning votes.

[Hugh Conway]

Maybe a Dale Carneige course may help. Insulting those that disagree with you does not add up to winning votes.

It's much more fun laughing at you. It's even more fun when you spite yourself in your voting far more than you spite "elitists" like me.

[splat]

I like the fact that she says we are doing God's work when we are killing.
Reminds me of Pat Robertson condoning the assassination of Hugo Chavez.

Because we all know that......

God Says KILL!

[Tippster]

However, it does not really matter. It costs me nothing to vote, and I am sure that Obama is a worse choice.

Based on what... your gut instincts? How'd that work out over the last 8 years? Bush was NOT a "Good ol' Boy from Texas." He just sold you on that lie. Where was he born? Raised? Educated?

We get the government we deserve. Unfortunately the ignorant breed more than the educated, so we're stuck.

[David Witherspoon]

I am apathetic ... and I am sure
The media had better start paying attention to this vast new demographic: Apathetic and Certain.

[Dantheman]

Pray for God's gas pipeline.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Which terrorists is she associated with? She has executive experience, Obama has none. Her church is similar to the ones many American's attend(not mine FWIW). In your mind , there may be an analogy, however most don't think like you.

I've read all your posts about McCain/Palin and I can say without doubt that you are really reaching for something tangible to validate your opinion that they are the superior ticket. What I don't understand is why...maybe you would care to explain beyond the "going with your gut" thing?

Tell me what has gotten better over the last 8 years under a republican president and for much of that 8 years (6 years) of republican controlled congress. The economy, the education system, the health care system, US international relations, safety, etc. are in worse shape than ever before. Freedoms have been taken away, a lot of American Troops have died and thousands of civilians who are not terrorists have been killed in the name of fighting the war on terror... Tell me, why do you want to perpetuate the status quo? Are you happy with the downward trend of the country into the proverbial gutter? Seriously, I don't get it...feel free to come off as an elitist and explain your point of view….because right now you’re just saying your "gut" tells you McCain/Palin is the answer…and that’s just ludicrous

[spindrift]

Let's not even get into "policy".

The view of Bush held by the unthinking and easily influenced:


. he was a good ole boy from Texas.



Which perhaps explans a lot when contrasted with...

The reality: A bonesman scion of a wealthy and powerful Northeastern family. Who, after graduating from elite schools which accepted and graduated him primarily due to his lineage, bought some cowboy boots and a cowboy hat - and a ranch to accessorize them. But he apparently remains afraid of horses...

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Crud's Uncle]

Not caring is not mutually exclusive with not knowing.
The media had better start paying attention to this vast new demographic: Apathetic and Certain.

[grrrr]

The media had better start paying attention to this vast new demographic: Apathetic and Certain.

Sorry, I think that was a typo. He meant "a pathetic and certain" man.

[The AD]

The average American does not agree with your contention that they are idiots. Many vote with their guts.

You say "voting with your gut," I say "voting by knee-jerk reaction." Not that this is 100% true, but generally it seems to me those on the left side of the political spectrum put more thought into the issues and ultimately their voting decisions. Things tend to be more black and white for the conservatives (e.g., "life starts at conception, therefore abortion is wrong."). I think this is one of the reasons we see Palin in such a different light. To some she's an attractive, fairly charismatic, typical mom. To others, if you look below the surface a little, her actions and policies don't seem so great.

[Crud's Uncle]

I am not a big fan of Bush.

In business there is a saying, perception is reality. Bush was perceived to be a common man, thus that became the reality to many.
Let's not even get into "policy".

The view of Bush held by the unthinking and easily influenced:



Which perhaps explans a lot when contrasted with...

The reality: A bonesman scion of a wealthy and powerful Northeastern family. Who, after graduating from elite schools which accepted and graduated him primarily due to his lineage, bought some cowboy boots and a cowboy hat - and a ranch to accessorize them. But he apparently remains afraid of horses...

:rolleyes2

[Crud's Uncle]

We all have a certain hubris. Our position is always the balanced reasoned position. The other side is always the unreasoned illogical position.

In some ways it has to be, for if we held the opposite view, we would have to change our opinion.

I know life begins at conception. Whether I base it on my religion or on science, I arrive at the same reasoned conclusion. Given the conclusion, abortion has to be intrinsically evil. I would argue that emotion drives the pro-abortion crowd. Men want abortion, because it removes an obstacle from a woman not wanting sex, and it removes a cost of having sex. Women want abortion if they buy into wanting to be equal to men. Neither rationale is rational.
You say "voting with your gut," I say "voting by knee-jerk reaction." Not that this is 100% true, but generally it seems to me those on the left side of the political spectrum put more thought into the issues and ultimately their voting decisions. Things tend to be more black and white for the conservatives (e.g., "life starts at conception, therefore abortion is wrong."). I think this is one of the reasons we see Palin in such a different light. To some she's an attractive, fairly charismatic, typical mom. To others, if you look below the surface a little, her actions and policies don't seem so great.

[Crud's Uncle]

The economy is not in worse shape than ever before. International relations have been worse. This is typical of the hyperbole of the left and the elite.

Life is not as black and white as you imply. For example, economic bubbles were allowed to bloom during the Clinton years. They burst, as bubbles do, and Bush had to deal with the mess. You cannot necessary blame Bush, it is more complicated.

Palin reflects my values and Obama does not.


I've read all your posts about McCain/Palin and I can say without doubt that you are really reaching for something tangible to validate your opinion that they are the superior ticket. What I don't understand is why...maybe you would care to explain beyond the "going with your gut" thing?

Tell me what has gotten better over the last 8 years under a republican president and for much of that 8 years (6 years) of republican controlled congress. The economy, the education system, the health care system, US international relations, safety, etc. are in worse shape than ever before. Freedoms have been taken away, a lot of American Troops have died and thousands of civilians who are not terrorists have been killed in the name of fighting the war on terror... Tell me, why do you want to perpetuate the status quo? Are you happy with the downward trend of the country into the proverbial gutter? Seriously, I don't get it...feel free to come off as an elitist and explain your point of view….because right now you’re just saying your "gut" tells you McCain/Palin is the answer…and that’s just ludicrous

[Buster Highmen]

First, I am voting for Palin, because I like her on balance vis a vis Obama and Biden. Your analysis probably differs, but sobeit, that is what makes a market.

I've been pretty clear about why I do not think Palin is a good representative of the GOP. Perhaps you could respond to them? On the other hand, it is much more convenient to sidestep those points and appeal to others.


You are missing the point. Your attitude that anyone that does not agree with your analysis is an idiot, is the elite arrogance that repels the average American. The average American does not agree with your contention that they are idiots. Many vote with their guts


I'm don't think that I wrote somewhere that the average American is an idiot, so please try to keep to the facts. I have expressed that I think it's sad or pathetic or ridiculous that so many intelligent people are manipulated and tricked into voting with their gut. So I'm not missing any point there.

So, in some sense, we agree. It's just that I can't really see glorifying their lack of attention to the facts.
But there are a number of bizarre things about your statement which simultaneously glorifies and obliquely denigrates the average American.


Blacks would no longer vote for Democrats, because they have done nothing to improve their lot over the 50 plus years they ruled Congress.

Flat out fantasy.
While many republicans cling to the party in hopes of their representation of truely small, financially responsible government,whereever they feel it, that simply has not been the case for 5 encumbencies. But in that case, it's OK to vote with the gut. However, if millions of minorities remember JFK leading a Democratic party to champion equal rights, then they're just stupid. Sweet consistency there, d00d.



Like I said, I do not agree with making a decision based on emotions. However, I am realisitic and understand that it is a major driver for most voters.

So you're supporting Palin on what basis again?



In addition, if most of the rabid Obama supporters are intellectually honest, they have to agree that their support is based on emotion rather than facts. The facts are that the man has very little relevant experience, he has close ties to criminals, he attended a church with an anti-American and anti-white philosophy, when off prompter he has a diffiult time putting coherent thoughts together, etc.


Geez, you guys.

If experience is a valid metric, I fail to understand why Palin passes and Obama flunks.

Similarly, I'm amused at the GOPs assertion of being the vanguard of change. Change from what to what?

The rest of your remarks regarding the church as well as weathermen associations is the same old vacant innuendo.

[Dantheman]

People, please, pray for God's gas pipeline.

[pisteoff]

I'm sort of puzzled why people want Joe or Jane Average to be their President or VP. I'd rather have someone who is truly exceptional. ... I don't understand the appeal of someone who is "just like us..."
Yeah, me too.


In a way he was. he was a good ole boy from Texas.

His opponent was an elite Northeasterner married to a rich girl. Compared to Kerry and Gore for that matter, Bush had a populist appeal.

Ahh... no. Bush is the son of a former prez, went to Yale AND Harvard, and was born in Connecticut. AND the Bush family is rich. GW Bush is, in fact, an "elite Northeasterner"

His good ole boy populist appeal is a fabrication that half of America swallowed hook, line and sinker.


I do not disgree with you. However, populism is in a large part why Clinton was elected.

True, but not the way you think. Perot was the populist vote-splitter that cinched the election for Clinton.

The results were:
Clinton 43%
Bush 37%
Perot 19%

[PowTron]

Palin reflects my values and Obama does not.


Oh, so you condemn all Jews to Hell unless they convert to Christianity, Speak in tongues at church, and tell other families what to do with their bodies and sex education, but forget to teach YOUR own underage, partying daughter how to abstain...?

Oh wait, some of that was just the church she attended, not her views? Imagine people holding pastors accountable for things they say, and assuming everyone in the church agrees...I wonder where that whole way of thinking came from:rolleyes2

Thanks for the clarification.

You have yet again confirmed for me that many right wingers attempt to talk this intelligent, thought provoked game on many things, but fail miserably short drowning in your hypocrisy.

[365wp]

They burst, as bubbles do, and Bush had to deal with the mess.

He had his own real estate bubble to help him.

[David Witherspoon]

Not caring is not mutually exclusive with not knowing.
In your case, however, they appear to be synergistic.

[David Witherspoon]

Similarly, I'm amused at the GOPs assertion of being the vanguard of change. Change from what to what?
From 100% in agreement with Bush to 90% agreement with Bush.
Oh wait. That 10% disagreement was before McCain decided to toady up to the Republican base. Now it's 110% agreement with Bush.
Still - gotta admit it's a change!

[cloudpeak]

What I've learned about the values of "average" Americans since the Palin nomination:

- Real contraception is bad.
- When abstinence fails, teen pregnancy is OK.
- Dropping out of high school to raise a baby is a good thing.
- Creationism is equivalent to science.
- Prayer should be used to get the material things you want, like gas pipelines.
- We fight wars like Iraq because the Christian God wants us to.
- Welfare is only bad when it goes to people in cities. Otherwise, it's called dividends for the citizens of Alaska even when it comes from Federal land.
- Civil rights only apply to people we like.
- Lying is OK as long as you attend a Christian church, preferably an Evangelical one.
- Jews are bad unless they convert to Christianity.
- The end of the world is imminent, and all the chosen will gather in Alaska.
- Being in the PTA and watching kids' hockey games is great preparation for being in line to be POTUS.

[Steven S. Dallas]

I'm an "elite liberal" by any moron's definition, and I understand why people like her. What I don't understand is why people think that makes her qualified to be VP.

[Buster Highmen]

We all have a certain hubris. Our position is always the balanced reasoned position. The other side is always the unreasoned illogical position.

Maybe you feel that way, but don't speak for me. If I really thought the other side had an unreasoned, illogical position, I wouldn't bother. With the exception of the obvious worthless trolls, I'm not dismissing anybody.

Anyway, in attempting some consistency, it seems like you're admitting to the unreasonaed illogical, gut based opinion.



In some ways it has to be, for if we held the opposite view, we would have to change our opinion.


I'm missing something here. Are you insinuating that changing one's opinion is bad? Or learning is bad? Enlighten me.



I know life begins at conception. Whether I base it on my religion or on science, I arrive at the same reasoned conclusion. Given the conclusion, abortion has to be intrinsically evil. I would argue that emotion drives the pro-abortion crowd. Men want abortion, because it removes an obstacle from a woman not wanting sex, and it removes a cost of having sex. Women want abortion if they buy into wanting to be equal to men. Neither rationale is rational.

Reason can also drive the choice crowd. Reason may support the claim that an unwanted life is a miserable life, a life that burdons society. More fundamentally, liberal philosophy (meaning Locke, Hume, Rousseau, etc) may support the assertion that a pregnancy is a private matter and the desire to carry it through should be left up to the mother and father.

What is inconsistent in the religious republican platform is the production of unwanted, unsupported lives.

[PowTron]

"I know life begins at conception. Whether I base it on my religion or on science, I arrive at the same reasoned conclusion. Given the conclusion, abortion has to be intrinsically evil. I would argue that emotion drives the pro-abortion crowd. Men want abortion, because it removes an obstacle from a woman not wanting sex, and it removes a cost of having sex. Women want abortion if they buy into wanting to be equal to men. Neither rationale is rational. "


This entire thing is ABSURD, and you know it...

People are not PRO-ABORTION. Nobody ever says "Oh, she is pregnant? COOL, I hope she gets an abortion".

IT IS ABOUT CHOICE, NOT THE ACTUAL ABORTION. Nobody WANTS to have an abortion.

Palin CHOSE to have a baby with Down Syndrome, and that is great for her. But that was her CHOICE. What if it were reversed? What if the law was "any DS baby needs to be aborted ASAP"? It isn't thankfully, but you need to frigin take a step back and actually have a coherent thought instead of a babbling of information that makes no sense at all.

There are many, many people that are pro-life in their own world, but believe in the right of a woman to make up her own mind, hence being PRO-CHOICE.

The rah-rah Patriotic Americans need to realize that the ability to CHOOSE is what made us Americans in the first place. People have the right to choose religions, political parties, etc...and by LAW they have the right to choose what to do with their OWN body.

[PNWbrit]

Palin Resonates?

As in empty, hollow, echoing resonating?

Yep.

[str8line]

What I've learned about the values of "average" Americans since the Palin nomination:

- Real contraception is bad.
- When abstinence fails, teen pregnancy is OK.
- Dropping out of high school to raise a baby is a good thing.
- Creationism is equivalent to science.
- Prayer should be used to get the material things you want, like gas pipelines.
- We fight wars like Iraq because the Christian God wants us to.
- Welfare is only bad when it goes to people in cities. Otherwise, it's called dividends for the citizens of Alaska even when it comes from Federal land.
- Civil rights only apply to people we like.
- Lying is OK as long as you attend a Christian church, preferably an Evangelical one.
- Jews are bad unless they convert to Christianity.
- The end of the world is imminent, and all the chosen will gather in Alaska.
- Being in the PTA and watching kids' hockey games is great preparation for being in line to be POTUS.

Deserving of its own post. Awesome.

[hutash]

What I've learned about the values of "average" Americans since the Palin nomination:

- Real contraception is bad.
- When abstinence fails, teen pregnancy is OK.
- Dropping out of high school to raise a baby is a good thing.
- Creationism is equivalent to science.
- Prayer should be used to get the material things you want, like gas pipelines.
- We fight wars like Iraq because the Christian God wants us to.
- Welfare is only bad when it goes to people in cities. Otherwise, it's called dividends for the citizens of Alaska even when it comes from Federal land.
- Civil rights only apply to people we like.
- Lying is OK as long as you attend a Christian church, preferably an Evangelical one.
- Jews are bad unless they convert to Christianity.
- The end of the world is imminent, and all the chosen will gather in Alaska.
- Being in the PTA and watching kids' hockey games is great preparation for being in line to be POTUS.

Damn, you convinced me to change my vote to McCain/Palin since I can now relate so well.....no wait, my kids played soccer, so I guess I can't relate after all. Oh well, back to Obama/Biden. Now my gut hurts from so much thinking.:confused:

[H-wood]

Of course men are going to sow some wild oats, but women who have sex should be punished, just as The Good Lord intended. Those irrational women!

Abortion is murder, but capital punishment and waterboarding is What Jesus Would Do- He certainly was concerned with administering retributive justice and keeping the poor and weak down.

It amazes me that anyone could rationalize the position that not only is sex bad, mmmkay?, but that in a country dedicated to personal liberty and equal justice, there are people who are big enough assholes to to try and take away one of life's few pleasures For Your Own Good.

signed,
really grateful for the in-school sex-ed, available birth control, condoms, etc. that allow me the Freedom to Fuck Hot Chicks as much as I want without having to become a daddy when I don't want to or getting the VeeDee.

If that's not enough to be a make or break voting issue, I don't know what is.

[pisteoff]

Of course men are going to sow some wild oats, but women who have sex should be punished, just as The Good Lord intended. Those irrational women!

Abortion is murder, but capital punishment and waterboarding is What Jesus Would Do- He certainly was concerned with administering retributive justice and keeping the poor and weak down.

Well, that's the thing about irony... sometimes it can be pretty ironic.

[Jer]

This is easily the most entertaining election cycle I've ever witnessed.

Maybe if all the arrogant liberal DBs would have read Sun Tsu in highschool instead of Maya Angelou they'd have some clue as to why they're getting destroyed.

Sarah Palin should start dressing up in a Wonder Woman costume. I mean - she already has the invisible jet.

I can't wait to see what freakshow loser the LibD's try to run against Palin/Jindal in 2012.

[Adolf Allerbush]

The economy is not in worse shape than ever before. International relations have been worse. This is typical of the hyperbole of the left and the elite.

You're right, it isn't, YET! I can't say for certain if it will get to the point where we're in the greatest economic depression...and really I don't want to get there...regardless you have validated my point that the economy is very bad. And since you've come to that conclusion as well you must think that part of the issue with the economy is our rampant borrowing of money from other countries to pay for our war machine...do you disagree? Beyond that historically you are incorrect about republicans being better for the economy..so, you have no ground to stand on. Definitely the economy goes throw ebs and flows but you cannot look past the simple facts that the last five republican administrations have performed poorly with regards to the economy. This is not simply a coincidence IMO, as you assume it must be.

I'll argue with you about abortion a bit...quite frankly as a d00d I can't really speak to all the intricacies that might go through a woman’s mind in assessing a pregnancy and all the different issues involved therein. I don't like that Palin wants to outlaw abortions for victims of incest and rape... But beyond all of that as a man I can't possibly dictate to woman what they can and can't do to their body...I'm assuming you're a dude based solely off of your screen name, if that's not the case my apologies, if it is then how can you justify your position on abortion? Regardless, we are in agreement that abortions proper use isn't as a form of birth control...but then, I don’t' think any one is agruing that it should be. Just from knowing women who were impregnated due to questionable circumstances out at parties (perhaps roofied, etc) I wouldn't want to outlaw abortion in those instances. So, to blanket outlaw abortion as you have indicated you are a proponent of seems to have its flaws IMO.

What I've gathered...experience is an issue for the dems but not for the repubs. You think the economy is bad, but not very bad. International relations are bad but not that bad...so your bottom line is, why change anything? Well, we disagree...obviously.

[Jer]

I just know that in about a month I'm gonna have to break out the "Adolf Assbush" alias.

[timnormandin]

Reading through these threads and listening to the media, the liberals are dumbfounded by Sarah. they fail to understand why their attacks have not sent Sarah back to the Great North.

More people watched Sarah's speech than Obamas. The average American identifies with Sarah. Her family is similar to many of ours. She shares most of our values. Not that everyone agrees with everything, but for the most part she is on the same page as the average American. We feel that she is the only politician that shares our values and lives.

McCain is rich. Obama is rich. Both are part of the elite. Obama has terrorists as friends. He belongs to a radiacal anti-white anti-American church. He was/is a Muslim. His life is the anti-thesis of the average American.

The average American struggles supporting their family, they work hard, they struggle with kids that rebel, they respect America, they have not traveled overseas, etc.

The more the elite slam their flag bearer, the more they are going to dig their heels in. Sarah resonates with the majority of the electorate, we know in our gut that she is the right choice.

Call us stupid, call us unenlightened, call us sheep, but realize that we hold the same opinion of you.

I believe the Palin's made about 300,000 dollars last year. I not sure that's like "us". It's like me, but, then I'm fucking rich.

[Jer]

If anybody's actually waiting for a candidate who drives a junker subie with 200,000 miles on it, has a water heater that's about to puke and makes <$40 grand a year I suggest you don't hold your breath.

[Crud's Uncle]

I have been critical of the Republicans economic policies. The only problem is that the Democrats will make the problem much worse.

Jimmy Carter's and the Democratic Congress economy was much worse than today. Are we heading for a downfall like you think, maybe. However, my crystal ball is not as clear as yours. BTW, many on the left predicted that Reaganomics was going to usher in an economic Japanese take over of the USA. Didn't happen.
You're right, it isn't, YET! I can't say for certain if it will get to the point where we're in the greatest economic depression...and really I don't want to get there...regardless you have validated my point that the economy is very bad. And since you've come to that conclusion as well you must think that part of the issue with the economy is our rampant borrowing of money from other countries to pay for our war machine...do you disagree? Beyond that historically you are incorrect about republicans being better for the economy..so, you have no ground to stand on. Definitely the economy goes throw ebs and flows but you cannot look past the simple facts that the last five republican administrations have performed poorly with regards to the economy. This is not simply a coincidence IMO, as you assume it must be.

[Crud's Uncle]

If the baby is a human life, then it must be protected. The woman makes the choice when she opens her legs, after that she has to accept the outcome of her choice.

Taking your argument to the logical conclusion, can we require a mother to nurse or feed their babies. Or do they have a right to not feed their baby, since choice is the ultimate good. Carried further, one can argue that the philosophy of liberalism is absurd, but that is an argument for another day.


I'll argue with you about abortion a bit...quite frankly as a d00d I can't really speak to all the intricacies that might go through a woman’s mind in assessing a pregnancy and all the different issues involved therein. I don't like that Palin wants to outlaw abortions for victims of incest and rape... But beyond all of that as a man I can't possibly dictate to woman what they can and can't do to their body...I'm assuming you're a dude based solely off of your screen name, if that's not the case my apologies, if it is then how can you justify your position on abortion? Regardless, we are in agreement that abortions proper use isn't as a form of birth control...but then, I don’t' think any one is agruing that it should be. Just from knowing women who were impregnated due to questionable circumstances out at parties (perhaps roofied, etc) I wouldn't want to outlaw abortion in those instances. So, to blanket outlaw abortion as you have indicated you are a proponent of seems to have its flaws IMO.

[philippeR]

From 100% in agreement with Bush to 90% agreement with Bush.
Oh wait. That 10% disagreement was before McCain decided to toady up to the Republican base. Now it's 110% agreement with Bush.
Still - gotta admit it's a change!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinion/ssi/images/Toles/c_09052008_520.gif

[Buster Highmen]

If the baby is a human life, then it must be protected.

The baby can't survive without the mother for some time after conception. And it vcan be argued that the mother has the choice to carry out the pregnancy or not.


The woman makes the choice when she opens her legs, after that she has to accept the outcome of her choice.

Teenage girls open their legs wityhout thinking or even understanding the result of the outcome. This position is ridiculous.



Taking your argument to the logical conclusion, can we require a mother to nurse or feed their babies.

With or without welfare? Besides, you've blurring the distinction between a fetus and a baby.


Or do they have a right to not feed their baby, since choice is the ultimate good.

At what point? Part of the question has to do with autonomy of life.


Carried further, one can argue that the philosophy of liberalism is absurd, but that is an argument for another day.

All hail the Borg, d00d, you can argue whatever you want. But the problem with your approach is premature didactation.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I just know that in about a month I'm gonna have to break out the "Adolf Assbush" alias.

Why wait dewd? It'll be so epic whenever you do it bro!

[powder11]

On the other hand, I guess I'm not so dumbfounded given the beauty queen mentality of our electorate.

I'm dumbfounded the Obama campaign has fallen for such a dirty trick! Taking the time and resources to go after someone like Palin not only distracts the electorate from the whole "Obama change" phenom, it legitimizes her position as a real contender/threat. The more Palin is attacked on personal issues, the more women will empathize with her. Palin could very well turn into the political derailment of the Obama train that the republican party so desperately needed.
If they want to marginalize Palin, Obama and the rest of the democrats should ignore her, pretend she doesn't exist and keep beating the Obama change drum. Nobody wants to hear a presidential candidate going on about the record of his opponents coffee girl (even if she could very well become president some day). Sad, but true.

[The AD]

If the baby is a human life, then it must be protected.

What about the capital punishment or war of any kind? If you think the taking of human life is acceptable in any situation then it runs counter to this argument. I think darn near all of us think ending a life in certain situations is justified, we just disagree on what those situations are.