With these people on Obamas side, how could he LOSE??????

[advres]

flame on bitches! (http://cbs11tv.com/slideshows/rnc.protester.mugshots.20.809519.html?rid=0)

:FIREdevil:FIREdevil:FIREdevil:FIREdevil:FIREdevil :FIREdevil:FIREdevil:FIREdevil:FIREdevil:FIREdevil

[P_McPoser]

2nd degree furthering of terrorism? Give me a fucking break (and i DESPISE these types of people.)

[P_McPoser]

Oh shit, they got Blurred11s!!!
http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/30/2008/09/03/370x278/NathanaelSecor.JPG

[smitchell333]

A lot of these people are anarchists and protested at both conventions. They are not for Obama or Mccain.

[Rubicon]

Has Obama reached out to them yet? If anyone can draw in the great untapped anarchist vote, it's the man who will lower the oceans.

[advres]

A lot of these people are anarchists and protested at both conventions. They are not for Obama or Mccain.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4850/facepalm8bu0.jpg

you walked right fucking into it.

[doughboyshredder]

2nd degree furtherance of terrorism.

FUCK.

This is how we get screwed. Because of fear we are allowing "terrorists" to be treated outside of our traditional legal system. Americans are allowing this to happen because of fear of actual terrorists.

I fear that the government, cops, etc.. will label anyone they want to as a terrorist and say goodbye to habeas corpus.

We are fucked.

[advres]

2nd degree furtherance of terrorism.

FUCK.

This is how we get screwed. Because of fear we are allowing "terrorists" to be treated outside of our traditional legal system. Americans are allowing this to happen because of fear of actual terrorists.

I fear that the government, cops, etc.. will label anyone they want to as a terrorist and say goodbye to habeas corpus.

We are fucked.

don't break the law, you will be fine.

[Rasputin]

Oh shit, they got Blurred11s!!!
http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/30/2008/09/03/370x278/NathanaelSecor.JPG

Dammit! Beat me to it! :cussing::biggrin:

[Rubicon]

http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/30/2008/09/03/370x278/NathanaelSecor.JPG

I swear I used to know this guy. He always used to try to get me to admit that I couldn't prove he wasn't an elephant or a hubcap.

[splat]

2nd degree furthering of terrorism? Give me a fucking break (and i DESPISE these types of people.)

The kind that exercise their rights?
What did they do, exactly?
I don't watch TV, but from what I've heard they were protesting without a permit.

[splat]

don't break the law, you will be fine.

Become a Starship Trooper. Do your part. We'll win this fight.

Uhhh, who are we fighting????????

[P_McPoser]

The kind that exercise their rights?
What did they do, exactly?
I don't watch TV, but from what I've heard they were protesting without a permit.
I enjoy a coversation. Extremists don't like to converse.

[Tippster]

Become a Starship Trooper. Do your part. We'll win this fight.

Uhhh, who are we fighting????????

The Brain Bugs. Duh.

[splat]

I enjoy a coversation. Extremists don't like to converse.

How stereotypical of you. Again.

[P_McPoser]

Next time i see anarchists rumbling down the street, i'll attempt to start a chat, to humor you, splat.

[Rasputin]

Next time i see anarchists rumbling down the street, i'll attempt to start a chat, to humor you, splat.

Perhaps if you thought of them as people first, it would help. Then maybe ask their perspective and listen. Most of the "angerkids" I've met are kindhearted enough, but are just really angry over what they feel is injustice, and the fact that they aren't being listened too, regardless of the validity of their views.

Maybe they can't deny the awareness of it, as they aren't numbed by an affluent position in society, and lacking the skills or temperament to work within the system, feel they need to demonstrate their angst. I don't condone vandalism of this sort, but I understand it.

The fact you see someone as an anarchist before you see them as a person, is pretty extreme, the extreme is called dehumanization, and it is a requisite for prejudice to flourish.

I expect you are a nice enough guy, and probably care about those who are close to you, which is good as far as it goes. I'm not meaning to rag on you really, but since you are pointing your finger with such zeal, I thought I'd point back. :smile:

[advres]

Perhaps if you thought of them as people first, it would help. Then maybe ask their perspective and listen. Most of the "angerkids" I've met are kindhearted enough, but are just really angry over what they feel is injustice, and the fact that they aren't being listened too, regardless of the validity of their views.

Maybe they can't deny the awareness of it, as they aren't numbed by an affluent position in society, and lacking the skills or temperament to work within the system, feel they need to demonstrate their angst. I don't condone vandalism of this sort, but I understand it.

The fact you see someone as an anarchist before you see them as a person, is pretty extreme, the extreme is called dehumanization, and it is a requisite for prejudice to flourish.

I expect you are a nice enough guy, and probably care about those who are close to you, which is good as far as it goes. I'm not meaning to rag on you really, but since you are pointing your finger with such zeal, I thought I'd point back. :smile:

Maybe if they cleaned up, got a job in politics and tried going that route they would get better attention? Just a thought.

[Ripzalot]

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/04/convention.protests/


St. Paul police had arrested 145 individuals on felony charges, 107 on misdemeanors, and 53 on gross misdemeanors, said Deputy Tracy Martin of the Hennepin County Sheriff's Department. She did not know the charges against 15 others.

...

"The bottom line with those individuals is they wanted to be arrested," Dolan said.

...

Fletcher spokeswoman Holli Drinkwine said the hard-core protesters deserved special attention from the police. Eight people arrested during raids last weekend face felony charges including second-degree conspiracy to commit riot in furtherance of terrorism, she said.

Convictions could result in more than 10 years in prison, she said.

...

"This group had been planning for over a year the destruction that they were going to place on the city during the RNC," Drinkwine said.

Among the acts of terror the group allegedly planned, according to court documents, were kidnapping delegates, sabotaging a local airport, damaging bridges and taking over federal buildings.

"Their ultimate goal was to crash the convention," she said.

sounds quite a large step above the usual right to protest.

they get no sympathy from me...

[Rasputin]

Maybe if they cleaned up, got a job in politics and tried going that route they would get better attention? Just a thought.

As I mentioned lacking the skills, temperament, and affluence are major factors. Also is the belief that the system itself is the problem, and not believing that working within it can be done without becoming subservient to it.

I don't expect you to take me seriously, but until these kids are taken seriously, they will continue to be burrs in the socks of society, and though a few may get picked out, the weeds that spawn them are getting thicker. Weeds watered by just the sort of attitude you are espousing.

I don't claim that their choices will gain the ends they desire, but telling them to act like you is no way to diffuse the situation, and if you don't like what you see, why continue to play the same role you have been, since it only adds fuel to their fire?

Again, I expect you are a pretty cool guy to hang out and ski with, but hatred for what you don't understand doesn't make it go away; the less understanding there is, the more conflict we all live in.

I do know what it is to look at others with contempt for their grooming, or lack thereof, for their obesity, or their opulence of lifestyle. I feel that contempt intensely at times, but ultimately I hope to grow beyond those limits. I suppose that why I'm leveling with you and P Mc. I'm tired of trading barbs, at least at the moment, and thought some sincerity would benefit us all.

[gonehuckin]

Sorry Rasputin but we dont need to coddle to kids with these views and who don't live within the rule of law. There isn't going to be a revolution led by them. And they are just showing that they dont have any respect for their fellow citizens. Nor do they care about any community. So fuck um....

I don't like the fact that terrorism is used to describe what they were doing however.

[splat]

OK. That's what they're accused of.
Now I know.
Thanks.

[Rasputin]

Sorry Rasputin but we dont need to coddle to kids with these views and who don't live within the rule of law. There isn't going to be a revolution led by them. And they are just showing that they dont have any respect for their fellow citizens. Nor do they care about any community. So fuck um....

I don't like the fact that terrorism is used to describe what they were doing however.

That's exactly the attitude that makes them feel dedicated to what they're doing. You are wrong about them not caring about any community though, you just haven't ever been low enough to see the one they care about. The kids I've met have great respect for life, but no respect for property, the latter of which I see as somewhat flawed in it's extreme expressions, but understandable considering the excesses that some indulge in at the expense of many.

I never suggested coddling, just seeking humanity in people before deciding they are a write off. I guess it's a stretch for many who haven't hit bottom before. Oh well, everyone will have their trip to the dregs, if only at the end of their existence, but sooner allows for rebuild and rebound. :smile:

[splat]

The 1968 Democratic National Convention, held in late August – convened to select the party's candidates for the November 1968 Presidential election – was the scene of massive demonstrations protesting the Vietnam War, which was at its height. Thousands of people showed up with signs and banners, music, dancing and poetry. A pig, "Pigasus the Immortal", was brought into the city to be "nominated" for President. Initially, there was a carnival atmosphere. The police were edgy. Some people responded to a night-time curfew announcement with rock-throwing. Police used tear gas and struck people with batons, and arrests were made. In the aftermath of what was later characterized as a "police riot" by the U.S. National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence,[1] a grand jury indicted eight demonstrators and eight police officers.

The original eight protester/defendants, indicted by the grand jury on March 20, 1969, were Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, David Dellinger, Tom Hayden, Rennie Davis, John Froines, Lee Weiner, and Bobby Seale. The defense attorneys were William Kunstler and Leonard Weinglass of the Center for Constitutional Rights. The judge was Julius Hoffman. The prosecutors were Richard Schultz and Tom Foran. The trial began on September 24, 1969, and on October 9 the United States National Guard was called in for crowd control as demonstrations grew outside the courtroom.

Early in the course of the trial, Black Panther Party activist Bobby Seale hurled bitter attacks at Judge Hoffman in court, calling him a "fascist dog," a "pig," and a "racist," among other things. Seale had wanted the trial postponed so that his own attorney, Charles Garry, could represent him (as Garry was about to undergo gallbladder surgery); the judge denied the postponement, and refused to allow Seale to represent himself, leading to Seale's verbal onslaught. When Seale refused to be silenced, the judge ordered Seale bound and gagged in the courtroom, citing a precedent from the case of Illinois v. Allen.[2] (This was alluded to in Graham Nash's song, "Chicago", which opened with: "So your brother's bound and gagged, and they've chained him to a chair"). Ultimately Judge Hoffman severed Seale from the case, sentencing him to four years in prison for contempt, one of the longest sentences ever handed down for that offense in American history at that time.[3]

The Chicago Eight then became the Chicago Seven, where the defendants, particularly Yippies Hoffman and Rubin, mocked courtroom decorum as the widely publicized trial itself became a focal point for a growing legion of protesters. One day, defendants Hoffman and Rubin appeared in court dressed in judicial robes. Abbie Hoffman blew kisses at the jury. The trial extended for months, with many celebrated figures from the American left and counterculture called to testify (including folk singers Phil Ochs, Judy Collins and Arlo Guthrie, writer Norman Mailer, LSD advocate Timothy Leary and Reverend Jesse Jackson).
“I pointed out that it was in the best interests of the City to have us in Lincoln Park ten miles away from the Convention hall. I said we had no intention of marching on the Convention hall, that I didn't particularly think that politics in America could be changed by marches and rallies, that what we were presenting was an alternative life style, and we hoped that people of Chicago would come up, and mingle in Lincoln Park and see what we were about.”
— Abbie Hoffman, from the Chicago Seven trial


On February 18, 1970, all seven defendants were found not guilty of conspiracy. Two (Froines and Weiner) were acquitted completely, while the remaining five were convicted of crossing state lines with the intent to incite a riot, a crime instituted by the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (and to date, they are the only people who have ever been charged with that offense[4]). They were each sentenced to five years in prison and fined $5,000 on February 20, 1970. At sentencing, Abbie Hoffman suggested the judge try LSD, offering to set him up with a dealer he knew in Florida.

All of the convictions were reversed by the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit on November 21, 1972, on the grounds of bias by the judge and his refusal to permit defense attorneys to screen prospective jurors for cultural and racial bias (Case citation 472 F.2d 340). The Justice Department decided not to retry the case. During the trial, all the defendants and both defense attorneys had been cited for contempt and sentenced to jail, but all of those convictions were also overturned. The contempt charges were retried before a different judge, who found Dellinger, Rubin, Hoffman and Kunstler guilty of some of the charges, but opted not to sentence the defendants to jail or fines.

Of the eight police officers indicted in the matter, seven were acquitted, and charges against the eighth were dismissed.

[bklyn]

uTCQSk2l8bc

[smitchell333]

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4850/facepalm8bu0.jpg

you walked right fucking into it.

What does that mean?

[gonehuckin]

Comparing this "RNC Welcoming Committee" to the Chicago 8 is a huge insult to the Chicago 8.

[Tippster]

...and insinuating these children represent the impoverished in this nation is an insult to the poor. Most of these kids are College students or college dropouts - they are poor because they CHOOSE to be poor, not because some repressive system is keeping them from their share.

There are rules to the game we call Prosperity. If you choose not to play by not working and being productive you will be marginalized. I'm OK with that. This is what Capitalism looks like. I don't owe you shit if you're not willing to work.

[PNWbrit]

uTCQSk2l8bc

Just here to say that Mr Scott Heron is the man.

[splat]

Comparing this "RNC Welcoming Committee" to the Chicago 8 is a huge insult to the Chicago 8.

Exactly. But I can't help but note how quick so many are to assume guilt here in the land of the free until judged by a jury of our peers. I see a presumption of guilt - and people willing to throw away one more of the many freedoms we supposedly cherish to jump on the crucifixion bandwagon like the Germans did against the Jews.

I posted the Chicago 7 piece to remind people that sometimes arrests are made without basis and nothing substantial comes of it; that the arrests are made to quell protest and halt the subsequent media coverage.

Jeezuz- that terrorist fear got many willing to throw away freedom for what?
Blind loyalty to facsism?
We're fukked.