How the Dems can stop shooting themselves in the foot

[P_McPoser]

-Appeal to middle america, swing for the fence, the best way to win an election is to try and find common ground with EVERYONE. Compromise is a great tool.
-Show real plans to create good paying, blue collar jobs in the midwest again
-Show Obama on TV relaxing and drinking a beer, lots of people still believe he's secretly a Muslim. The only 'relaxed' Obama pics i've seen so far are him shooting hoops. That appeals to a lot of blue collar and inter city blacks. Show him drinking a beer and watching football yelling at the TV, there ya go with the same segment of whites.
-Show Obama attending a normal, blue collar church (he claims to do this anyways)
-Stop attacking Palin's lack of prestigous education, a lot of middle america would be very proud to see their children graduate from ANY school with ANY degree. Simple people don't like priveledged, condescending pricks.
-Stop attacking Palin in genereal. Simple people don't like guys who pick on women.
-Start attacking issues, while maintaining the high road. This is where Obama has excelled so far, but it needs to trickle down to the whole campaign and whole party.
-Seperate themselves from the far left. Condemn leftist protesters as childish. Simple people see the silence as an approval.
-Talk tougher on DEFENSE. Simple people see democrats as weak, non-fighters. Obama needs to clarify that he will be ruthless in ACTUAL defense of this country and its close allies, but does not support wanton acts of war "just because." Even Simple people don't like the Iraq war, but they don't want to see our military budgets cut.

And of his Image:
Obama needs to transform himself more strongly into the role as the underpriveledged child of a single mother who pulled himself up the ladder using hard work, god, and discipline to acheive the American Dream. His resume speaks to his intelligence, but he needs to relax and show that even someone who went to Harvard law is capable of identifying with Joe American. Obama is the only one in this race besides Palin who can do that and be Legit. McCain is Funny. Palin is Funny. Obama is too fucking serious all the time.

Just some thoughts I had. Cunt away. Obviously there are people who spend their whole careers figuring this shit out, so what the fuck do I know.

[Jer]

-Appeal to middle america, swing for the fence, the best way to win an election is to try and find common ground with EVERYONE. Compromise is a great tool.
-Show real plans to create good paying, blue collar jobs in the midwest again
-Show Obama on TV relaxing and drinking a beer, lots of people still believe he's secretly a Muslim. The only 'relaxed' Obama pics i've seen so far are him shooting hoops. That appeals to a lot of blue collar and inter city blacks. Show him drinking a beer and watching football yelling at the TV, there ya go with the same segment of whites.
-Show Obama attending a normal, blue collar church (he claims to do this anyways)
-Stop attacking Palin's lack of prestigous education, a lot of middle america would be very proud to see their children graduate from ANY school with ANY degree. Simple people don't like priveledged, condescending pricks.
-Stop attacking Palin in genereal. Simple people don't like guys who pick on women.
-Start attacking issues, while maintaining the high road. This is where Obama has excelled so far, but it needs to trickle down to the whole campaign and whole party.
-Seperate themselves from the far left. Condemn leftist protesters as childish. Simple people see the silence as an approval.
-Talk tougher on DEFENSE. Simple people see democrats as weak, non-fighters. Obama needs to clarify that he will be ruthless in ACTUAL defense of this country and it's close allies, but does not support wanton acts of war "just because." Even Simple people don't like the Iraq war, but they don't want to see our military budgets cut.

And of his Image:
Obama needs to transform himself more strongly into the role as the underpriveledged child of a single mother who pulled himself up the ladder using hard work, god, and discipline to acheive the American Dream. His resume speaks to his intelligence, but he needs to relax and show that even someone who went to Harvard law is capable of identifying with Joe American. Obama is the only one in this race besides Palin who can do that and be Legit. McCain is Funny. Palin is Funny. Obama is too fucking serious all the time.

Just some thoughts I had. Cunt away. Obviously there are people who spend their whole careers figuring this shit out, so what the fuck do I know.

Agree on pretty much every point.

However, I don't see this as Obama's race to lose anymore. It's now the media/left wingnut's race to lose. And I seriously doubt that those guys will wake up.

Truthfully, I feel sorry for Obama. I think he's a decent guy with not entirely bad ideas about some things. He's gotta be feeling like a twig being swept down the rapids lately. I really hope he doesn't fade into windsurfing obscurity or try to start up a freaky new cult like the past two losers.

[basom]

obama has a wet jump shot.


i saw this t shirt on a kid at my corner bodega this morning.

[P_McPoser]

I think Obama maybe needs to attack the media that think "they're helping him" as well.

[timvwcom]

-Stop attacking Palin's lack of prestigous education, a lot of middle america would be very proud to see their children graduate from ANY school with ANY degree. Simple people don't like priveledged, condescending pricks.
-Stop attacking Palin in genereal. Simple people don't like guys who pick on women.

Obama and his campaign have had nothing to do with either of these... you seem to be confusicating him/them with the media and online bloggers in this case?

[trainnvain]

Agree on pretty much every point.

However, I don't see this as Obama's race to lose anymore. It's now the media/left wingnut's race to lose. And I seriously doubt that those guys will wake up.

Truthfully, I feel sorry for Obama. I think he's a decent guy with not entirely bad ideas about some things. He's gotta be feeling like a twig being swept down the rapids lately. I really hope he doesn't fade into windsurfing obscurity or try to start up a freaky new cult like the past two losers.

Totally agree, Obama and his team seem restrained on attacks and focused on their own agenda, whereas the media/far lefts continue the path of self-righteousness to the point where I tune out.

[tarkman1]

We'll start to see the true campaign strategies in the new couple of weeks.

Until now, It's all been like us out on the mountain scoping those big lines that we want to stomp. Talking about this or that in preparation doesn't mean squat after you point the tips down the fall line.

[Steven S. Dallas]

I think they're doing fine. You guys must be watching Fox News.

The GOP is making this into a referendum on character and identity politics, while spreading mis-and half-truths about Obama. Obama will get to answer all of those assertions and the character issue in the debates, which people will watch- look at the TV turnouts for the Conventions. He will absolutely kill McCain on live television, and people can decide then. People really like and are impressed by the guy.

Also- middle America is great and all, but the electoral map favors Obama.

[AKA]

Also- middle America is great and all, but the electoral map favors Obama.

From what I understand Wyoming is the bell-weather of bell-weathers, it doesnt look good for the dems.

[Core Shot]

-
-Show Obama on TV relaxing and drinking a beer, lots of people still believe he's secretly a Muslim. The only 'relaxed' Obama pics i've seen so far are him shooting hoops. That appeals to a lot of blue collar and inter city blacks. Show him drinking a beer and watching football yelling at the TV, there ya go with the same segment of whites.
ow.

He seems pretty relaxed here:
F45rXyuTZjo

WOW - censorship strikes again! - video not available
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/05/08/obama.jeans.cnn

[telebobski]

Good points PMc. But it's still early in the process. Each party gets a boost in ratings after their convention, since each side's machine has a golden opportunity to spin their messages to the press & tv viewers at home. McCain also took some steam out of the Dems uptick with all the kerfuffle about Palin. Now, the debate will become a little more substantial.

As I continue to dig into positions on taxes and health care, this republican is finding more to like about Obama plans than McCain's. I think Barry can get some leverage with those midwest middle-class voters by pushing back on pocketbook issues rather than his continual message (to me anyway) of "vote for me because the current administration are a flock of douchebags". That was Jimmy Carter's main message, and look how well that turned for the country...

My biggest problem with Obama is in foreign policy. While I like the idea of talking with people who don't agree with you, I get a vision of him emerging from negotiations with Putin wearing a dog collar, leash, thigh-highs, high-heels and lipstick.

[basom]

I think they're doing fine. You guys must be watching Fox News.

the electoral map favors Obama.

i have no idea what you are talking about

http://tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45866&stc=1&d=1220724547

[AKA]

Wyoming and Idaho are red as fuck. game, set, and match

[Steven S. Dallas]

While I like the idea of talking with people who don't agree with you, I get a vision of him emerging from negotiations with Putin wearing a dog collar, leash, thigh-highs, high-heels and lipstick. Are you kidding me? Obama strikes me as a guy who would be a terrific negotiator. He has the confidence, that's for sure.

If there's one thing that we've learned from the Iraq experience, it's that dick-waving gets you nowhere.

[Core Shot]

He's got the gay cowboy vote all locked up

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/lachikanys/cowboy.jpg?t=1220724845

[basom]

He's got the gay cowboy vote all locked up


so thats about 80% of cowboys. and?

[steepconcrete]

obama has a wet jump shot.


i saw this t shirt on a kid at my corner bodega this morning.

i have a friend of a friend who grew up with Obama, and yes he used to do blow and shit with him back in the day...anyhow he gets flown into to random locals every few weeks for hoops games when Obama needs to wind down.

[Jer]

Are you kidding me? Obama strikes me as a guy who would be a terrific negotiator. He has the confidence, that's for sure.

Steve - ever stop to think that just maybe you aren't representative of the average dumbass unedjamakated fox news watching American?

He may seem cool to you, however there's only one of you.

[telebobski]

Are you kidding me? Obama strikes me as a guy who would be a terrific negotiator. He has the confidence, that's for sure.

If there's one thing that we've learned from the Iraq experience, it's that dick-waving gets you nowhere.

GWB had plenty of confidence about Iraq too. Look how far that got him. It takes way more than confidence to be a good negotiator. Like a lot experience at it, and the scar tissue that comes along with that experience.

Again, I'm talking about the (OK, my) current perception of Obama, and what he might do to change that.

[Steven S. Dallas]

Steve - ever stop to think that just maybe you aren't representative of the average dumbass unedjamakated fox news watching American? I think I'm a reasonable guy, and I think most Americans are reasonable people. And I think a lot of people like Obama- he is currently leading the presidential polling by a decent margin.


GWB had plenty of confidence about Iraq too. Look how far that got him. Um, I don't recall negotiation being one of the planks of the Iraq program. Perhaps I overlooked it, as I was in a constant state of shock and awe.

It's worked well in Syria, though.

[Cliff Huckable]

.... It's now the media/left wingnut's race to lose. And I seriously doubt that those guys will wake up.
....

The media is giving Palin way way way way way more coverage than she or the story could possibly warrant.

And suddenly and constantly calling McCain a "maverick".

How can people claim there's a left bias to any of this media, when they so willingly do the Republicans' bidding? I agree that there seems to be a superficial bias on CNN, for example, but they are always excited to do whatever the GOP says they should. From 9/11 to today the US media has been, and continues to be, a complete joke.

[Jer]

I think I'm a reasonable guy, and I think most Americans are reasonable people. And I think a lot of people like Obama- he is currently leading the presidential polling by a decent margin.

1%-3% is a decent margin now?

He's got 8 years of Bush disaster and most of the media in his pocket ( although I suppose the latter has recently become a millstone around his neck), he should be smoking McCain in the polls.

Hey - I think a whole lotta people like Obama too. A whole lotta people probably still like Duran Duran too, but I don't see them burning up the charts.

[Jer]

I do agrtee that there seems to be a superficial bias on CNN, for example, but they are always excited to do whatever the GOP says they should.


You cannot be serious.

Yeah - MSNBC too - their totally in love with the GOP.

And Kieth Olbermann is a great journalist.

[tarkman1]

My biggest problem with Obama is in foreign policy. While I like the idea of talking with people who don't agree with you, I get a vision of him emerging from negotiations with Putin wearing a dog collar, leash, thigh-highs, high-heels and lipstick.

Good point. Kennedy didn't deal well with Russia initially which led to the Cuban missile crisis. Russians understand strength. Obama would do well to look to history for dealing with Putin. Putin probably leans more toward Kruschev and less towards Gorbachev. Except Putin probably a lot more savvy than Kruschev.

[telebobski]

Um, I don't recall negotiation being one of the planks of the Iraq program. Perhaps I overlooked it, as I was in a constant state of shock and awe.

Are we talking about confidence or negotiation skill/experience here? You keep jumping back and forth. Yes, Bush sucks at international (and national for that matter) diplomacy, but that never hurt his confidence (at least until his decisions came home to roost).

Experience > confidence.

[basom]

Are we talking about confidence or negotiation skill/experience here?

do you read a lot?

you quoted ssd saying obama has the confidence to be a great negotiator.

[smitchell333]

-Appeal to middle america...


Agreed for the most part, save for the issues, ignore those since Middle America apparently has no grasp or desire to understand real issues. Thats Rove playbook right there.

[Steven S. Dallas]

Are we talking about confidence or negotiation skill/experience here? You keep jumping back and forth. Dumbfuck, I said that confidence is a critical component of negotiating ability.

[Tippster]

So basically he needs to dumb himself and his message down, pretend he's someone/something he's not, and pander to the NASCAR Dads.

Chix are off limits but they are perfectly OK to be POTUS, just don't hold them to task for saying one thing and doing the opposite, all because they have a Vagina.

Got it.

The electoral college is what matters, not the Popular vote. McCain might be within a few percentage points in the latter, but he's losing handily in what really matters - the race to 270.

[Jer]

So basically he needs to dumb himself and his message down, pretend he's someone/something he's not, and pander to the NASCAR Dads.

Chix are off limits but they are perfectly OK to be POTUS, just don't hold them to task for saying one thing and doing the opposite, all because they have a Vagina.

Got it.

The electoral college is what matters, not the Popular vote. McCain might be within a few percentage points in the latter, but he's losing handily in what really matters - the race to 270.

I totally agree! (http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131853)

[telebobski]

do you read a lot?

you quoted ssd saying obama has the confidence to be a great negotiator.

Yes I do...with better comprehension than you, obviously.

I said that confidence /= ability. So who the fuck cares if he's confident? There's a fair body of evidence that people who have little knowledge (or skill) tend to think they know more (or have more skill) than they do. It's called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

It goes a long way toward explaining your behavior.

Let's summarize. Confidence does not equal skill. I'm sure Obama has confidence in his negotiating ability - I'm not so sure he has the ability.

[telebobski]

Dumbfuck, I said that confidence is a critical component of negotiating ability.

Uh, wrong. A couple of guys won a Nobel prize demonstrating that confidence and skill tend to be inversely related. See Dunning-Kruger Effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Dumbfuck

[David Witherspoon]

Whatever on about what Obama oughta be doing. Friday morning quarterbacking ... :rolleyes

What about what you oughta be doing in order to ensure that he wins?

[timvwcom]

Uh, wrong. A couple of guys won a Nobel prize demonstrating that confidence and skill tend to be inversely related. See Dunning-Kruger Effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Dumbfuck

A couple quick notes... Telebobski, their study COULD be used to show that ignorance often CAUSES an inappropriate confidence. However it COULD NOT be used to show that confidence often CAUSES inappropriate ignorance. Also, you should have noted your own phraseology here "tend to"... one would be wrong to claim that a specific skilled person COULD NOT also be confident, or that a specific confident person COULD NOT be skilled. And lastly, I would agree that confidence is a key component in negotiation ability.

[David Witherspoon]

Confidence born of competence is invincible.

Confidence born of ignorance ... well, ask Crud's Uncle.

[Jer]

Tipp is a loser.

Once in awhile you and I completely agree on certain issues. This is one of those times.

[timnormandin]

Not trying to cunt, but who are these, ah, simple, folks you're talking about? You seem to be painting them as monolithic tards who, just because they are--presumably--rural or urban working class and the like can't understand a nuanced position. On the other hand maybe you have a point. Elections--especially presidential elections--seem to bring out the lowest common denominator in America.


-Appeal to middle america, swing for the fence, the best way to win an election is to try and find common ground with EVERYONE. Compromise is a great tool.
-Show real plans to create good paying, blue collar jobs in the midwest again
-Show Obama on TV relaxing and drinking a beer, lots of people still believe he's secretly a Muslim. The only 'relaxed' Obama pics i've seen so far are him shooting hoops. That appeals to a lot of blue collar and inter city blacks. Show him drinking a beer and watching football yelling at the TV, there ya go with the same segment of whites.
-Show Obama attending a normal, blue collar church (he claims to do this anyways)
-Stop attacking Palin's lack of prestigous education, a lot of middle america would be very proud to see their children graduate from ANY school with ANY degree. Simple people don't like priveledged, condescending pricks.
-Stop attacking Palin in genereal. Simple people don't like guys who pick on women.
-Start attacking issues, while maintaining the high road. This is where Obama has excelled so far, but it needs to trickle down to the whole campaign and whole party.
-Seperate themselves from the far left. Condemn leftist protesters as childish. Simple people see the silence as an approval.
-Talk tougher on DEFENSE. Simple people see democrats as weak, non-fighters. Obama needs to clarify that he will be ruthless in ACTUAL defense of this country and its close allies, but does not support wanton acts of war "just because." Even Simple people don't like the Iraq war, but they don't want to see our military budgets cut.

And of his Image:
Obama needs to transform himself more strongly into the role as the underpriveledged child of a single mother who pulled himself up the ladder using hard work, god, and discipline to acheive the American Dream. His resume speaks to his intelligence, but he needs to relax and show that even someone who went to Harvard law is capable of identifying with Joe American. Obama is the only one in this race besides Palin who can do that and be Legit. McCain is Funny. Palin is Funny. Obama is too fucking serious all the time.

Just some thoughts I had. Cunt away. Obviously there are people who spend their whole careers figuring this shit out, so what the fuck do I know.

[Jer]

Everybody's got something to hide. Except for me and my monkey.

[Steven S. Dallas]

Uh, wrong. A couple of guys won a Nobel prize demonstrating that confidence and skill tend to be inversely related.

That's not what the study demonstrated- it demonstrated that people with actual knowledge and skill underestimate their abilities, while people with poor ability overestimate their abilities. That's not remotely the same as saying "If you're confident, you must be unskilled," which is what you are saying.

Here's a fun experiment: you claim that you have good reading comprehension- that's basically what this discussion is about, and also how dumb you are. Dunning-Krueger hypothesizes that "incompetent individuals tend to overestimate their own level of skill" and "fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy." You also claimed that the pair won a Nobel prize for their work. So not only did you completely misinterpret the meaning of the study, but the article that you linked to says that they won the Ig Noble Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ig_Nobel), "a parody of the Nobel Prizes"- not the Nobel Prize.

Dunning-Krueger is thus proven.

You fucking idiot.

[hutash]

Just think back to the 70's..."The Dukes of Hazard" was the number one TV show, or if you can't think, just look at how popular NASCAR is. This is Joe or Jane America. They are a bunch of fucking idiots. Minimal education, both think they are god's gift to humanity. We are right and we are American, and the rest of the world better agree to it.

These are the people electing the next POTUS. Sad but true, as much as I hate to admit it. McPoser has many valid points, and if we could get him out from underground and a job as a campaign manager we might just see some change in Washington. My guess is he works with a large number of NASCAR fans.

[Cliff Huckable]

You cannot be serious.

Yeah - MSNBC too - their totally in love with the GOP.

And Kieth Olbermann is a great journalist.

Yeah MSNBC, too. But their left bias magically vanishes when the GOP needs something, just like CNN.
Olbermann is an employee. I was talking about about networks.

[basom]

So not only did you completely misinterpret the meaning of the study, but the article that you linked to says that they won the Ig Noble Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ig_Nobel), "a parody of the Nobel Prizes"- not the Nobel Prize.

Dunning-Krueger is thus proven.

You fucking idiot.


tee hee.

[trainnvain]

Finally! This thread took a while to get off topic, but it's developing quite well now.

[P_McPoser]

Obama and his campaign have had nothing to do with either of these... you seem to be confusicating him/them with the media and online bloggers in this case?
Not particularly. Obama needs to flex his muscles against this push. He might not make a ton of new friends, but he will appeal to simple people by standing up against douchebaggery.


I think they're doing fine. You guys must be watching Fox News.

The GOP is making this into a referendum on character and identity politics, while spreading mis-and half-truths about Obama. Obama will get to answer all of those assertions and the character issue in the debates, which people will watch- look at the TV turnouts for the Conventions. He will absolutely kill McCain on live television, and people can decide then. People really like and are impressed by the guy.

Also- middle America is great and all, but the electoral map favors Obama.
Hell, most of my news comes from this place, and I have a feeling that Palin will not do as bad in the debates as some here are thinking. And if she does poorly, it's gonna play as her getting picked on by the mean democrat. I know that's sexist, but it's the truth. I think scheduling will play a huge role in the debates. It's quite possible that the VP debates will get a lot more play than the Presidential ones.


Not trying to cunt, but who are these, ah, simple, folks you're talking about? You seem to be painting them as monolithic tards who, just because they are--presumably--rural or urban working class and the like can't understand a nuanced position. On the other hand maybe you have a point. Elections--especially presidential elections--seem to bring out the lowest common denominator in America.
Trust me, I know the people I'm talking about. I've spent lots of time in towns full of them for years (Elko Nevada, Winnemucca Nevada, Vail Arizona, Kearny Arizona). Towns where Sunday is for church, football, and NASCAR.
These are the people who where learning how to drive a combine and wrench on a tractor while you spent your high school summers doing "fun stuff."



Just think back to the 70's..."The Dukes of Hazard" was the number one TV show, or if you can't think, just look at how popular NASCAR is. This is Joe or Jane America. They are a bunch of fucking idiots. Minimal education, bith think they are god's gift to humanity. We are right and we are American, and the rest of the world better agree to it.

This are the people electing the next POTUS. Sad but true, as much as I hate to admit it. McPoser has many valid points, and if we could get him out from underground and a job as a campaign manager we might just see some change in Washington. My guess is he works with a large number of NASCAR fans.

Have worked. I was completely surprised by demographics of where I work currently, both race\ethnic as well as social\political. It's different though, as it's one of very few mines whose workforce is drawn from a large urban center (Denver), rather than a small town that relies on the Mines and Farming to exist.

I don't know about being a campaign manager, lol, that's a stretch. But, it wouldn't HURT the Dems to court some of the small town folk in red states. One of the most impressive things I have ever seen by a politician was when I lived in Elko, Nevada one summer. Dick Cheney flew into the Elko airport in his huge ass 757, followed by some air force cargo jets with the armored motorcade vehicles, and spoke at the High Shcool to a crowd of maybe, MAYBE, 5,000 people. I think a lot of positive results were in just showing that he cared enough to visit a town of 20,000 people in BFE.


Finally! This thread took a while to get off topic, but it's developing quite well now.
Like clockwork.

[str8line]

-Appeal to middle america, swing for the fence, the best way to win an election is to try and find common ground with EVERYONE. Compromise is a great tool.
-Show real plans to create good paying, blue collar jobs in the midwest again
-Show Obama on TV relaxing and drinking a beer, lots of people still believe he's secretly a Muslim. The only 'relaxed' Obama pics i've seen so far are him shooting hoops. That appeals to a lot of blue collar and inter city blacks. Show him drinking a beer and watching football yelling at the TV, there ya go with the same segment of whites.
-Show Obama attending a normal, blue collar church (he claims to do this anyways)
-Stop attacking Palin's lack of prestigous education, a lot of middle america would be very proud to see their children graduate from ANY school with ANY degree. Simple people don't like priveledged, condescending pricks.
-Stop attacking Palin in genereal. Simple people don't like guys who pick on women.
-Start attacking issues, while maintaining the high road. This is where Obama has excelled so far, but it needs to trickle down to the whole campaign and whole party.
-Seperate themselves from the far left. Condemn leftist protesters as childish. Simple people see the silence as an approval.
-Talk tougher on DEFENSE. Simple people see democrats as weak, non-fighters. Obama needs to clarify that he will be ruthless in ACTUAL defense of this country and its close allies, but does not support wanton acts of war "just because." Even Simple people don't like the Iraq war, but they don't want to see our military budgets cut.

And of his Image:
Obama needs to transform himself more strongly into the role as the underpriveledged child of a single mother who pulled himself up the ladder using hard work, god, and discipline to acheive the American Dream. His resume speaks to his intelligence, but he needs to relax and show that even someone who went to Harvard law is capable of identifying with Joe American. Obama is the only one in this race besides Palin who can do that and be Legit. McCain is Funny. Palin is Funny. Obama is too fucking serious all the time.

Just some thoughts I had. Cunt away. Obviously there are people who spend their whole careers figuring this shit out, so what the fuck do I know.


GREAT post!

[P_McPoser]

Creative. I don't think I've heard "SNObama" around here yet.
http://thewholegardenwillbow.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/snob.jpg

[splat]

I just wanna see one of the motherfuckers come up with a way to retire $53 TRILLION in national debt.
Or even address it.

Bake sale?

It works out to only $455,000 per household.

[warthog]

So not only did you completely misinterpret the meaning of the study, but the article that you linked to says that they won the Ig Noble Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ig_Nobel), "a parody of the Nobel Prizes"- not the Nobel Prize.

Dunning-Krueger is thus proven.

You fucking idiot.

Must be all that fancy book learnin'. What were we talkin' about again? Nascar was on.

[Jer]

I've gotta say that if I were forced to watch one or the other, I would easily choose NASCAR over baseball. They both suck, but at least NASCAR has crashes.

[gonehuckin]

Telebobski-
This is why you're advised to never respresent yourself in court. Leason learned.


But back to the original topic:

Why don't all of you who think that middle America is full of "simple" people, advocate for this country to move further away from democratic rule? If the mass majority of Americans are dumb then why not just take their vote away. Intelligence test for voting? Or even better, lets just let those in power pick their successors. I mean who knows better what it takes to do the job then those already doing it? (your sarcasm meter should be ringing by now, if not replace the batteries).

The truth is, that I want an elitist snob running this country. I want the best. I want the guy (or gal) who graduated top in his class from a top school. I want the guy who did all of the extracurricular activities. I want the guy who has a track record of kicking ass and taking names. I want the genius who knows how to speak to crowds and to dictators. I want the guy who writes books, wins prestigious awards. I want a guy who changes the game. I want the guy who was an all american in sports. I want the guy who is going to make the best decisions for us. I want the guy who does his homework. I want the guy who can manipulate a situation to his will. I want a pragmatist. I want organization. I want someone who uses logical and rational thought. I want excellence. I want optimism. I want confidence. I want someone who is more interested in finding the answers than telling us that he already knows them. And I want a guy who has our best interest at heart. I want a humanitarian.

What I don't want is someone who gets on because they are likable or who I can relate to. I don't want someone who believes in cronyism. I don't want liars. I don't want thieves. I don't want pandering. I dont want average. I dont want popular. I dont want a yes man. I dont want someone who's best quality is that I want to drink with them while watching football. I don't want someone trapped in the dogma of any religion. I don't want arrogance. I dont want someone who's main achievement is breaking a race or gender barrier.

I want someone who is so damn awesome that they are breaking all barriers.

To bad Chuck Norris isn't able to run. No single political party could contain his awesomeness......

[cloudpeak]

The Electoral College and the Senate are big parts of the problem. Both of these institutions give more voting power per capita to the people of small states than to those who live in large population states. A vote for president in Wyoming is worth three times more than a vote cast in California in the Electoral College. As a result, residents of large states end up being at a big disadvantage for selecting presidents.

The Senate has a similar effect. Senators from small states like Alaska, Wyoming, and Vermont represent tiny numbers of citizens compared with senators from California. Each senator from Alaska represents 335,000 people. Each California senator represents 18,000,000 (almost 20 million!) people. This is where representative democracy starts to fail. The founding fathers probably never imagined the discrepancy becoming so ludicrous.

People like Ted Stevens use this to their advantage to secure earmarks for their states because they know legislation cannot pass without their over endowed votes.

[timvwcom]

Uh, wrong. A couple of guys won a Nobel prize demonstrating that confidence and skill tend to be inversely related. See Dunning-Kruger Effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Dumbfuck


You also claimed that the pair won a Nobel prize for their work. So not only did you completely misinterpret the meaning of the study, but the article that you linked to says that they won the Ig Noble Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ig_Nobel), "a parody of the Nobel Prizes"- not the Nobel Prize.

Dunning-Krueger is thus proven.

You fucking idiot.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Bretty311/OUCH.png

[bio-smear]

I just think it's awesome that a such a thing as the Ig Noble prize exists, and that the Dunning-Kruger effect qualifies, and that a frog was magnetically levitated. Maybe one day I could be magnetically levitated.

[Core Shot]

The Electoral College and the Senate are big parts of the problem. Both of these institutions give more voting power per capita to the people of small states than to those who live in large population states. A vote for president in Wyoming is worth three times more than a vote cast in California in the Electoral College. As a result, residents of large states end up being at a big disadvantage for selecting presidents.

The Senate has a similar effect. Senators from small states like Alaska, Wyoming, and Vermont represent tiny numbers of citizens compared with senators from California. Each senator from Alaska represents 335,000 people. Each California senator represents 18,000,000 (almost 20 million!) people. This is where representative democracy starts to fail. The founding fathers probably never imagined the discrepancy becoming so ludicrous.
.

senate and electoral college is pure genius.
the founding fathers were way ahead of their time.

Aside from the librodouche big city I know better than everyone else pomposity, letting the big cities and big states control all aspects of governemnt would be disastrous from an economic and farming perspective. Not to mention from a forest management natural resources perspective.

[philippeR]

Telebobski-
This is why you're advised to never respresent yourself in court. Leason learned.


But back to the original topic:

Why don't all of you who think that middle America is full of "simple" people, advocate for this country to move further away from democratic rule? If the mass majority of Americans are dumb then why not just take their vote away. Intelligence test for voting? Or even better, lets just let those in power pick their successors. I mean who knows better what it takes to do the job then those already doing it? (your sarcasm meter should be ringing by now, if not replace the batteries).

The truth is, that I want an elitist snob running this country. I want the best. I want the guy (or gal) who graduated top in his class from a top school. I want the guy who did all of the extracurricular activities. I want the guy who has a track record of kicking ass and taking names. I want the genius who knows how to speak to crowds and to dictators. I want the guy who writes books, wins prestigious awards. I want a guy who changes the game. I want the guy who was an all american in sports. I want the guy who is going to make the best decisions for us. I want the guy who does his homework. I want the guy who can manipulate a situation to his will. I want a pragmatist. I want organization. I want someone who uses logical and rational thought. I want excellence. I want optimism. I want confidence. I want someone who is more interested in finding the answers than telling us that he already knows them. And I want a guy who has our best interest at heart. I want a humanitarian.

What I don't want is someone who gets on because they are likable or who I can relate to. I don't want someone who believes in cronyism. I don't want liars. I don't want thieves. I don't want pandering. I dont want average. I dont want popular. I dont want a yes man. I dont want someone who's best quality is that I want to drink with them while watching football. I don't want someone trapped in the dogma of any religion. I don't want arrogance. I dont want someone who's main achievement is breaking a race or gender barrier.

I want someone who is so damn awesome that they are breaking all barriers.

To bad Chuck Norris isn't able to run. No single political party could contain his awesomeness......
^Sensible post.
Schumpeter had it covered (http://wikisum.com/w/Schumpeter:_Capitalism,_Socialism,_and_Democracy).

(And I don't like to pile up like this, but, wow, telebobski = pwned...:D)

[hutash]

Telebobski-
This is why you're advised to never respresent yourself in court. Leason learned.


But back to the original topic:

Why don't all of you who think that middle America is full of "simple" people, advocate for this country to move further away from democratic rule? If the mass majority of Americans are dumb then why not just take their vote away. Intelligence test for voting? Or even better, lets just let those in power pick their successors. I mean who knows better what it takes to do the job then those already doing it? (your sarcasm meter should be ringing by now, if not replace the batteries).

The truth is, that I want an elitist snob running this country. I want the best. I want the guy (or gal) who graduated top in his class from a top school. I want the guy who did all of the extracurricular activities. I want the guy who has a track record of kicking ass and taking names. I want the genius who knows how to speak to crowds and to dictators. I want the guy who writes books, wins prestigious awards. I want a guy who changes the game. I want the guy who was an all american in sports. I want the guy who is going to make the best decisions for us. I want the guy who does his homework. I want the guy who can manipulate a situation to his will. I want a pragmatist. I want organization. I want someone who uses logical and rational thought. I want excellence. I want optimism. I want confidence. I want someone who is more interested in finding the answers than telling us that he already knows them. And I want a guy who has our best interest at heart. I want a humanitarian.

What I don't want is someone who gets on because they are likable or who I can relate to. I don't want someone who believes in cronyism. I don't want liars. I don't want thieves. I don't want pandering. I dont want average. I dont want popular. I dont want a yes man. I dont want someone who's best quality is that I want to drink with them while watching football. I don't want someone trapped in the dogma of any religion. I don't want arrogance. I dont want someone who's main achievement is breaking a race or gender barrier.

I want someone who is so damn awesome that they are breaking all barriers.

To bad Chuck Norris isn't able to run. No single political party could contain his awesomeness......

You forgot to add nice tits. Nice tits are always good, otherwise I agree with all you wrote. I want people to vote for the best person, not somebody they can relate to. Unfortunately so many Americans don't look beyond the superficial. Maybe requiring a basic class in government to vote wouldn't be a bad idea. Face it, how many people do you remember in your high school government class that actually paid attention?

[Adolf Allerbush]

I think Obama maybe needs to attack the media that think "they're helping him" as well.

I think the right wing media and talking heads are much more destructive to the voting process than any liberal media you may think is out there. People like Rush and Hannity do a lot of damage...last year on my road trip throughout the Midwest it was impossible to find this "left wing media" you are complaining about. The fact is that unless these people purposely tuned into MSNBC they won't be influenced by left wing media as you're saying. However every day, 24/7, the conservative political radio spews out their message of intolerance and fear mongering. The result is that the Midwesterners are jaded and misinformed and it's tragic. For example, why should it matter if the media talks about Palin and her lack of any rellevant experience? What's wrong with asking weather the US public really wants Palin to be running the country? The right wing media will spin that into dems being sexist and people eat it up.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I've gotta say that if I were forced to watch one or the other, I would easily choose NASCAR over baseball. They both suck, but at least NASCAR has crashes.

FAIL
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/players/06/12/collisions0619/t1_collision.jpg

[13]

i find it strangely ironic that a bunch of east coasters, transplanted east coasters, and westerners are discussing what the "average" midwesterner is like.

then again, what do i know? i'm just a dumb midwesterner that votes. :rolleyes:

[Adolf Allerbush]

i find it strangely ironic that a bunch of east coasters, transplanted east coasters, and westerners are discussing what the "average" midwesterner is like.

then again, what do i know? i'm just a dumb midwesterner that votes. :rolleyes:

I lived in the Midwest for 9 years. My folks and siblings all live in the Midwest. My family has a farm in Minnesota, an environmental preserve in Illinois...I've been all over the Midwest recently. My grandparents are all from South Dakota...So, I may have grown up on the west coast and live out here currently but that certainly doesn't automatically mean that I have no perspective on the US Midwest. Thanks for making a huge stupid ass assumption though...you basically just did the exact thing you're complaining about. Might want to check yourself next time.

Basically, from my time spent in that portion of the country I can say that besides in parts of Wisconsin, the Chicagoland area, parts of Minnesota, the rest is very republican, and there isn't a lot of "left wing media" being pushed on the general populace like P_McPoser indicated. The fact is that the exact opposite is true...that these people, are not dumb, but are particularly misinformed as a direct result of being disproportionately influenced by conservative media and people like Rush.

[13]

adolf, i wasn't singling anybody out. you have a better idea than the majority of the posters here.

i was just pointing out that due to the fact that this is a skiing board, the largest demographic is not likely to be in the midwest, so really, i don't think i'm far off assuming that the majority of people here are talking out of their asses when it comes to midwesterners.

[Adolf Allerbush]

adolf, i wasn't singling anybody out. you have a better idea than the majority of the posters here.

i was just pointing out that due to the fact that this is a skiing board, the largest demographic is not likely to be in the midwest, so really, i don't think i'm far off assuming that the majority of people here are talking out of their asses when it comes to midwesterners.

My bad...I must be having a case of the Moondays.

[hutash]

I never said mid-westerners were stupid, I said the average American is stupid, east and west included. Just lookaround you if you have any doubts.

[The AD]

-Show Obama on TV relaxing and drinking a beer, lots of people still believe he's secretly a Muslim. The only 'relaxed' Obama pics i've seen so far are him shooting hoops. That appeals to a lot of blue collar and inter city blacks. Show him drinking a beer and watching football yelling at the TV, there ya go with the same segment of whites.
-Show Obama attending a normal, blue collar church (he claims to do this anyways)

So Obama needs to become Homer Simpson? Doh!

[BmillsSkier]

Agreed for the most part, save for the issues, ignore those since Middle America apparently has no grasp or desire to understand real issues. Thats Rove playbook right there.

As long as Obama supporters and Democrats on the whole continue thinking exactly like this (read: flyover staters are toothless uneducated morons) you will continue to have trouble winning national elections.

[telebobski]

Telebobski-
This is why you're advised to never respresent yourself in court. Leason learned.

Yes, let the record show I deserved the pwning. :redface:

[Jer]

FAIL
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/players/06/12/collisions0619/t1_collision.jpg

Yeah - that's totally worth sitting through 4 hours (or whatever) of mind-numbing boredom for.


I never said mid-westerners were stupid, I said the average American is stupid, east and west included. Just lookaround you if you have any doubts.

We idiots should just elect you Grand Emperor of the US forevar. I'm sure a genius such as yourself would solve all the problems!:)

[Adolf Allerbush]

Yeah - that's totally worth sitting through 4 hours (or whatever) of mind-numbing boredom for.:)

Dewd, you cannot possibly think sitting through 8 hours of a NASCAR race hoping for a crash is more entertaining than baseball. I need find the calculation, but it's something like 5 minutes of actually seeing cars pass by in front of your seats at a NASCAR race....sick bro, super super sick!

[Jer]

Dewd, you cannot possibly think sitting through 8 hours of a NASCAR race hoping for a crash is more entertaining than baseball. I need find the calculation, but it's something like 5 minutes of actually seeing cars pass by in front of your seats at a NASCAR race....sick bro, super super sick!

Actually, I don't know for sure. I've never sat through either baseball or NASCAR. 'Cause in the end they both suck and are really really boring.

What the fuck made you think I'm a NASCAR fan? Your 68 IQ?

[David Witherspoon]

So not only did you completely misinterpret the meaning of the study, but the article that you linked to says that they won the Ig Noble Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ig_Nobel), "a parody of the Nobel Prizes"- not the Nobel Prize.

Dunning-Krueger is thus proven.
pwnage of teh century.
'Specially in a thread about foot-shooting

There's an alias that needs permanent retirement into the abyss of eternal humiliation.


I can't believe I missed it. :nonono2:

[Cliff Huckable]

i find it strangely ironic that a bunch of east coasters, transplanted east coasters, and westerners are discussing what the "average" midwesterner is like.

then again, what do i know? i'm just a dumb midwesterner that votes. :rolleyes:

So you have to be living in a place to have an opinion on that place? Pretty insular.

It sort of sounds as if you have an opinion on the coasts...

[Cliff Huckable]

The truth is, that I want an elitist snob running this country.
I want the best.
I want the guy (or gal) who graduated top in his class from a top school.
I want the guy who did all of the extracurricular activities.
I want the guy who has a track record of kicking ass and taking names.
I want the genius who knows how to speak to crowds and to dictators.
I want the guy who writes books, wins prestigious awards.
I want a guy who changes the game.
I want the guy who was an all american in sports.
I want the guy who is going to make the best decisions for us.
I want the guy who does his homework.
I want the guy who can manipulate a situation to his will.
I want a pragmatist.
I want organization.
I want someone who uses logical and rational thought.
I want excellence.
I want optimism.
I want confidence.
I want someone who is more interested in finding the answers than telling us that he already knows them.
And I want a guy who has our best interest at heart.
I want a humanitarian.

What I don't want is someone who gets on because they are likable or who I can relate to.
I don't want someone who believes in cronyism.
I don't want liars.
I don't want thieves.
I don't want pandering.
I don't want average.
I don't want popular.
I don't want a yes man.
I don't want someone who's best quality is that I want to drink with them while watching football.
I don't want someone trapped in the dogma of any religion.
I don't want arrogance.
I dont want someone who's main achievement is breaking a race or gender barrier.

I want someone who is so damn awesome that they are breaking all barriers.




This reads like the kind of thing that gets sent around the interwebs, and inspires people. Excellent post. I hope someone makes it viral.

[13]

So you have to be living in a place to have an opinion on that place? Pretty insular.

close, but not quite. keep trying though cliffie.

[P_McPoser]

^^^ LIBRADOUCHE FIGHT!! ;)

[timvwcom]

This reads like the kind of thing that gets sent around the interwebs, and inspires people. Excellent post. I hope someone makes it viral.

Just for giggles, I did a Google search on part of this...

I found that someone, one of us I'd assume, has it up at digg. I joined there just to give it a thumbs up. It went from -1 to +4 in the few minutes it took for me to get back there and digg it after registering. Find it here; http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Sam_Stein_Obama_Response_Ad_WHOA_McCain_Ain_t_No_M averick

Thanks to "Sensisnow"...