Palins "Troopergate" issue looks to be blowing up... [Archive]

timvwcom

09-05-2008, 02:56 PM

IMHO the one area where Palin has real vulnerability that could dramatically effect the Presidential race is the "Troopergate" issue. I DID try and find an existing thread to tuck this in, but felt burying it would make it too hard for others to contribute as more is known. For the record, I would have felt mucho guilty starting two political threads in the same day back in the Padded Room... now not so much. :tongue:

(NOTE: Edited in color at a later time)

ABC News is reporting that the Alaska Senates investigation will be "Fast Tracked" and news has leaked that Palin and the McCain campaign are trying to deep six or delay the investigation;

Investigation into Palin Now on Fast Track (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5734511&page=1)
Sources Tell ABC News that Report Will Be Released Almost Three Weeks Early

ABC News has exclusively learned that Alaska Senator Hollis French will announce today that he is moving up the release date of his investigation into whether Gov. Sarah Palin abused her office to get the Alaska public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, fired. The results of the investigation were originally scheduled for release Oct. 31 but will now come almost three weeks earlier, according to sources.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/ap_Hfrench_Palin_080901_mn.jpg
Alaska state senator Hollis French, who is running an investigation of Gov. Sarah Palin, says the McCain campaign is using stall tactics to prevent him from releasing his final report by Oct. 31st.
(The Associated Press)
The announcement is set for 9 a.m. AKDT time.

The Alaska state senator running an investigation of Gov. Palin had accused the McCain campaign of using stall tactics to prevent him from releasing his final report by Oct. 31, four days before the November election.

"It's likely to be damaging to the Governor's administration," said Senator Hollis French, a Democrat, appointed the project manager for a bi-partisan State Senate Legislative Counsel Committee investigation.

Palin, who has denied any wrongdoing and has said she has nothing to hide, has hired private lawyers to represent her in the matter.

Palin's stall (http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/516641.html)
Governor is stonewalling the Troopergate investigation

Gov. Sarah Palin is taking the wrong approach to Troopergate. She should be practicing the open and transparent, ethical and accountable government she promised when running for governor and boasts about now that she's on the national stage.

Instead, Gov. Palin has begun stonewalling the Legislature's attempt to get the bottom of allegations that she, her family or staff violated ethical or state personnel rules.

As a result, the Troopergate allegations hang over Palin's future and cloud her candidacy for vice president.

The allegations are that she, her family or administration improperly pressured then-Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan to fire Gov. Palin's ex-brother-in-law, state trooper Mike Wooten, who had been in the middle of a custody dispute with Palin's sister.

In July, when legislators started talking about conducting an investigation, Palin denied any wrongdoing and said she welcomed an investigation.

"Hold me accountable," she said.

The Legislature took her up on that offer. But this week, she basically told the Legislature, "Never mind."

Palin's lawyer has asked the Legislature to drop its investigation. He had the governor file an ethics complaint against herself, in a bid to turn the entire matter over to the state Personnel Board, which would hire an independent investigator.

This is not an open and transparent attempt to establish Gov. Palin's accountability. It is an attempt to drag out the investigation until after voters decide the fate of her vice-presidential bid.

Instead, Gov. Palin should honor her pledge to cooperate with the Legislature's investigation, conducted by former state prosecutor Steve Branchflower.

She could start by telling aide Frank Bailey he has to talk to the legislative investigator. She should fire him if he doesn't.

Bailey was caught on an audio recording of a phone conversation with a Public Safety Department official, in which Bailey pushed to get Wooten fired.

Bailey was put on paid leave, not fired. A spokeswoman for Palin said that while Bailey is on the state payroll, Palin can direct him to cooperate with the legislative investigation.

So why is Bailey still on the payroll, after he bailed on a scheduled interview with the legislative investigator Wednesday?

The Legislature hasn't given its investigator the power to subpoena, or compel, testimony of witnesses. Subpoenas appeared unnecessary, since it appeared the governor and administration would be cooperating.

That's over. It's time for the subpoenas.

The Legislature's investigation is supposed to be wrapped up by Oct. 31. That's obviously poor timing from the standpoint of the McCain-Palin presidential campaign, coming just a few days before the national election.

Instead of trying to delay the whole thing, Palin should take a cue from U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens, who asked that his corruption trial be moved up so it would be completed well ahead of the November general election. Voters deserve to know the outcome of Sen. Stevens trial and the investigation into Palin.

When this investigation into Troopergate started, Gov. Palin's response was refreshingly open. Since she became the Republican candidate for vice president, her approach has changed for the worse. America deserves the same openness and ethics from vice-presidential candidate Palin that she promised to Alaska voters in 2006.

BOTTOM LINE: Gov. Palin is stonewalling on Troopergate; the Legislature should issue subpoenas.

'Threat'?

Palin's lawyer tries to play Secret Service card

Gov. Sarah Palin's lawyer, Thomas Van Flein, made an absurd threat in his battle to get the Legislature to back off its ethics investigation of the governor and her staff.

Van Flein said legislative investigator Steve Branchflower tried to call First Gentleman Todd Palin directly on "a secure and confidential line. This represents a serious security breach that we may be obligated to report to the Secret Service."

Hello? Branchflower is acting on behalf of the Legislature. That's a security breach?

Lawyers are supposed to vigorously represent their clients, but claiming that a legislative investigator's phone call may be a security matter worthy of Secret Service attention is ridiculous.

Gov. Palin should keep her legal attack dog on a shorter leash.

BOTTOM LINE: More obstruction from Palin in Troopergate.

Tye 1on

09-05-2008, 03:03 PM

Cliff Huckable

09-05-2008, 03:08 PM

I'm watching this guy right now - he Tazered his EDIT: stepson on request.

I think the Democrats are being played. Palin is nothing but a distraction. There's only one Republican who matters and it's John "Super-Cynical Opportunist" McCain.

basom

09-05-2008, 03:29 PM

there may be more......

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/alaska-police-union-files_n_124034.html

hutash

09-05-2008, 03:30 PM

Adolf Allerbush

09-05-2008, 03:35 PM

jeebus Tim, fkn 6 font and no highlights, no colors other than one yellow line, and you expect us to read all that?????????????????? :D

Yeah, that could be an issue, particularly as she fired the dude that wouldn't fire her ex bro-in-law, and the dude has emails that are pretty damning...

Totally...just goes to show, in addition to all of her asinine stances on abortion, book banning, gay rights, etc...Palin's just not the brightest candle in the cathedral.

basom

09-05-2008, 03:48 PM

Totally...just goes to show, in addition to all of her asinine stances on abortion, book banning, gay rights, etc...Palin's just not the brightest candle in the cathedral.

well it did take her six years at four schools to get a degree, i don't think people like her because she's smart. i cant really say why people like her, maybe their love for her fills a void.. they need to.

timvwcom

09-05-2008, 04:55 PM

jeebus Tim, fkn 6 font and no highlights, no colors other than one yellow line, and you expect us to read all that?????????????????? :D ...

Yeah... My future ex-wife was standing at the door tapping her foot waiting for me to finish so we could go shopping. I kinda HAD TO drop the ball on the rest of my organizational "coding", or get even more crap. :rolleyes2 I suppose I could go back and add a bit in, since that is long and it does really help (at least IMHO).

there may be more......

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/alaska-police-union-files_n_124034.html

THANK YOU!!! I had seen that earlier today and totally spaced on pulling it into this thread.

Alaska police union files complaint against Palin (http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/04/1347737.aspx)

By Aram Roston and Amna Nawaz, NBC News producers

The GOP candidate for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, may be facing yet another ethics investigation back in her home state of Alaska. An ethics complaint obtained by NBC News was filed Wednesday by the police officers union in Alaska, requesting a probe into possible wrongdoing by the governor or her office. It was brought on behalf of state trooper Mike Wooten, an ex-brother-in-law of Palin who is at the center of the "Troopergate" scandal.

The complaint alleges that the governor or her staff may have have improperly disclosed information from Wooten's personnel records. The complaint alleges "criminal penalties may apply."

John Cyr, director of the union that filed the complaint, told NBC News, "It seems obvious to us somebody has improperly accessed [Wooten's] personnel file."

The McCain/Palin campaign Thursday launched a spirited defense when contacted by NBC News. They say the personnel files were not protected; a campaign source says Wooten himself had previously signed a waiver allowing a divorce lawyer to obtain his personnel records. The campaign then sent a copy of that waiver to NBC News, which reads "I hereby waive any privilege I may have to said information to said attorneys."

The issue concerns disclosures about Wooten's records made by a Palin aide - Frank Bailey - in a February 2008 phone conversation. The police officers' union complaint claims the transcript of that conversation clearly indicates there was improper access to Wooten's records.

The McCain/Palin campaign, in a response to NBC News, provided a family twist to the story, saying the governor's husband - Todd Palin - was the source of that information to Bailey. They say the information came from divorce proceedings, and that Gov. Palin never improperly accessed any records.

Taylor Griffiths, a spokesman for McCain, said "When you're a real reformer like Sarah Palin, who isn't afraid to take on entrenched political interests, scurrilous attacks and empty allegations come with the territory."

well it did take her six years at four schools to get a degree, i don't think people like her because she's smart. i cant really say why people like her, maybe their love for her fills a void.. they need to.

Bloomberg is reporting (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aGyGdUh9PJhQ&refer=home) it was 5 schools in 5 years... if you include returning back to the University of Idaho a second time.

-University of Hawaii at Hilo in 1982 after high school, staying only a few weeks because of the constant rain

-switched to North Idaho College in Coeur d'Alene for two semesters in 1983

-Palin then attended the University of Idaho in the fall of 1984 and the spring of 1985

-moving to Matanuska-Susitna College in Palmer, Alaska, for the 1985 fall semester

-She returned to University of Idaho in 1986, AP said. Palin earned a bachelor of science degree in communications-journalism from the University of Idaho in 1987

Jer

09-05-2008, 04:58 PM

Yeah - just like this whole "baby" thing blew up.....in the Democrat's face.

Do you guys ever learn??? Or are you intentionally trying to FAIL?

splat

09-05-2008, 06:12 PM

Forcing McCain to admit she is a mistake will give the dems the power they need to show being a maverick is not all its cracked up to be. If making bad choices is his idea of change, McCain is going to get fried.

You still gotta take the Dubya factor into account, hutash.

Look at all the underhanded shit he did.
Has the conscience of the US actually improved?

edit: Starship Troopers!

edit/edit: Killa From Wasilla

hutash

09-05-2008, 06:16 PM

hutash

09-05-2008, 06:20 PM

You still gotta take the Dubya factor into account, hutash.

Look at all the underhanded shit he did.
Has the conscience of the US actually improved?

edit: Starship Troopers!

edit/edit: Killa From Wasilla

I try not to even think of Dubya...I still hope to wake up and find the last 8 years was just a bad dream..."A bit of undigested beef"

splat

09-05-2008, 06:22 PM

Six colleges/universities in six years as per http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=5728215

This a great resume for a maggot/ski bum, but hardly reassuring for a holder of national office.

Not that I have anything against U of Idaho (my daughter is at WaSU, and will likely take some classes there,) but it certainly is not in the same league as Columbia or Harvard. But to have a lot of her experience from junior colleges is just sad.

Well, you didn't go to the U of I for a Journalism degree, either. I left there because ISU had the rep for being the nest Journalism school in the state. I was ten years ahead of her and she was born in my hometown. But she doesn't get a kitchen pass from me for either of those coincidences.

She didn't like the rain in Hilo????? BWAAAAA!!!!!
She sure didn't major in research.

Huckin eh?

09-05-2008, 06:22 PM

Jeebus Tim
I thought you were on the Porn brigade and wouldnt consider starting a thread about politics at such a time.
I'm very disappointed in you.
I thought you were on our side!
Huck you!

;)

Cliff Huckable

09-05-2008, 06:27 PM

Forcing McCain to admit she is a mistake will give the dems the power they need to show being a maverick is not all its cracked up to be. If making bad choices is his idea of change, McCain is going to get fried.

I hope this leads to other examples of how she fired people who got in her way. She is not a barracuda, she is just a plain bitch.

They'll never admit it is a mistake because

1. It's going to work

WHy?

Because ANYFUCKINGTHING works in the fucking USA if you massage the press. Everyone is calling McCain a "maverick" now!!! No surprise, after they way they handled/did what they were told regarding Iraq. It's an insult to sheep to use that word to describe the American press.

Really fucking sad.

timvwcom

09-05-2008, 06:43 PM

Jeebus Tim
I thought you were on the Porn brigade and wouldnt consider starting a thread about politics at such a time.
I'm very disappointed in you.
I thought you were on our side!
Huck you!

;)

You mean you didn't know I had TWO FACES???

http://a2.vox.com/6a00cd96fc16084cd500d41445912a3c7f-200pi

It's been pretty obvious that my two loves in life are Sex and Politics... When ever they intersect I go nearly bonkers!!! Consider the Elliott Spitzer Hookergate thread as evidence/proof: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116017

ps. This reminded me of the scenes in Chronicles of Riddick where the helmet face turns to the 2nd face (my 2nd most favorite movie of all time...);

a8XtfTMs4zQ

P_McPoser

09-05-2008, 08:37 PM

trainnvain

09-05-2008, 08:51 PM

These emoticons need to go,they suck:

:cool:=I'm confused about my gender liking and abuse 'script drugs
:o= I can suck cock in a coma
:wink:= I am the creepy winky dude
:rolleyes2=I am filled with self-importance, irregardless of my Circle-K job
:tongue:=I just shit in my underwear
:redface:=I just farted on top of the shit in my underwear

tarkman1

09-05-2008, 09:35 PM

Valerie Plame? Watergate? Those cases seem a whole lot more complicated than anything going on with Palin.

With Palin running for the White House, I am certain we will see the facts on the matter. I'm sure McCain has the facts. It's just a matter of time before we will.

telebobski

09-05-2008, 09:38 PM

Yeah - just like this whole "baby" thing blew up.....in the Democrat's face.

The Obamazombies must think the GOP vetters didn't bother to look into any of the allegations beforehand.

timvwcom

09-05-2008, 10:50 PM

More hitting the main stream news now...

Team McCain and the Trooper (http://www.newsweek.com/id/157439)
Nominee's ally moves to curb probe of Palin

Key Alaska allies of John McCain are trying to derail a politically charged investigation into Gov. Sarah Palin's firing of her public safety commissioner in order to prevent a so-called "October surprise" that would produce embarrassing information about the vice presidential candidate on the eve of the election.

In a move endorsed by the McCain campaign Friday, John Coghill, the GOP chairman of the state House Rules Committee, wrote a letter seeking a meeting of Alaska's bipartisan Legislative Council in order to remove the Democratic state senator in charge of the so-called "troopergate" investigation.

Coghill charged that the senator, Hollis French, had "politicized" the probe by making a number of public comments in recent days, including telling ABC News that Palin had a "credibility problem" and that the investigation into the firing of public safety commissioner Walter Monegan was "likely to be damaging to the administration" and could be an "October surprise." Wrote Coghill: "The investigation appears to be lacking in fairness, neutrality and due process."

The investigation, authorized by the Legislative Council last July, revolves around charges that Palin abused her power by embroiling the governor's office in a bitter family feud involving her ex-brother in law, a state trooper named Mike Wooten. Specifically, the council is investigating whether Palin fired Monegan when he refused to dismiss Wooten (who at the time was involved in an ugly custody battle with Palin's sister) after getting repeated complaints about him from the governor and her husband, Todd Palin. (Among the allegations that were raised against Wooten by Palin's sister: he had Tasered his ten-year-old stepson and shot a moose without a permit.) Palin has denied wrongdoing; Monegan has said he believes his firing was connected to his refusal to fire Wooten.

French, the Democrat overseeing the probe, has hired a special counsel to determine, in effect, whether Palin "used her public office to settle a private score," he recently said. He has also suggested that the probe may turn up evidence that state laws were violated by Palin's aides because they pulled confidential personnel files on the trooper.

But Coghill, who told NEWSWEEK that he has the backing of Republican Speaker of the House John Harris in his effort to remove French, suggested Friday that the investigation into Palin's firing of Monegan should be shut down entirely. "If this has been botched up the way it has, there's a question as to whether it should continue," Coghill told NEWSWEEK.

The move underscored the huge political stakes in the outcome of a legislative investigation that is being closely monitored by both the McCain and Obama campaigns because of its potential impact on the fall election. "How can this possibly be read as anything but a partisan attempt to shut down a legitimate investigation that was approved and funded with bipartisan support?" said one state Democratic legislative aide, who asked not to be identified because of the political sensitivities. Coghill told NEWSWEEK that he decided to write his letter to strip French of his position on his own-without any coaxing by McCain campaign officials.

But a top McCain campaign official acknowledged that the GOP lawyer had given the campaign a "heads up" about his letter and that the McCain campaign approved of the effort to remove French.

"An investigation that was supposed to be non-partisan has become a political circus and has gotten out of control," said Taylor Griffin, a top communications aide dispatched from McCain campaign headquarters to Alaska this week to monitor the investigation and related matters. (Griffin also said that Palin has "nothing to hide" about the Wooten matter.)

As a further sign of the sensitivity of the probe, a lawyer for Palin told NEWSWEEK Friday that Todd Palin, the governor's husband, was in the process of hiring his own separate counsel to represent him in the legislature's probe. Thomas Van Flein, Governor Palin's lawyer, would not identify who is now representing the governor's husband. But he sought to deflect charges that Todd Palin, a commercial fisherman and oil company worker, had improperly intervened in state business by inviting Monegan to the governor's office and asking him to look into Wooten's status on the state police force. (For his part, Wooten has acknowledged that he "made mistakes," but that he was "punished appropriately" when he was suspended from the police force for five days in 2006.)

In an interview on Friday, Van Flein sought to deflect charges that Todd Palin may have acted improperly by talking to the state public safety commissioner about Wooten. Todd was "the governor's husband and a citizen of the state and he has every right to an opinion as [does] everyone else," Van Flein said.

One major reason the probe is so sensitive is that it raises the prospect that Governor Palin's credibility could be called into a question in a major state probe on the eve of the election. When the "troopergate" story broke over the summer, Palin adamantly denied that anybody in her administration exerted any pressure on Monegan to fire Wooten. But only weeks later, a tape recording surfaced in which another one of her top aides, Frank Bailey, was heard telling a police lieutenant, "Todd and Sarah are scratching their heads, 'Why on earth hasn't this, why is this guy [Wooten] still representing the department?'"

French today acknowledged that some of his public comments about the ongoing probe may have been out of bounds. "I said some things I shouldn't have said," he told NEWSWEEK. But he insisted he had no intention of stepping down because the investigation was really being conducted by Steve Branchflower, a retired state prosecutor who was hired as the special counsel in the probe. French also said today he had moved up the deadline for Branchflower to produce his report. Although it was originally due Oct. 31, the Friday before the election, it will now be completed Oct. 10-in order to be "as far away from the election" as possible.

In the interview with NEWSWEEK, Van Flein, Governor Palin's lawyer, raised other objections to the troopergate probe. He said the legislative investigation ran counter to the Alaska Constitution because it was being conducted in secret and without strict procedural rules. He said that in the "post-McCarthy era", he would have expected more due process guarantees.

Van Flein also told NEWSWEEK that as part of defense preparations for the investigation, he had taken his own depositions from potential witnesses—including one this week who refused to give testimony to the Legislature's special counsel. That was Frank Bailey, the former senior Palin aide who was recorded mentioning the concerns of Palin and her husband that Wooten was still on the police force.

In the deposition taken by Van Flein, which Palin's lawyer made available to NEWSWEEK, Bailey acknowledged he had "overstepped my boundaries... I should not have spoken for the governor, or Todd, for that matter. I went out on my own on this discussion."

But Bailey also confirmed in the deposition that Palin had herself raised Wooten's name with the state police during her first security briefing after she won election as governor in November 2006. Bailey said he sat in on the briefing with Gary Wheeler, then head of the governor's security detail. Wheeler asked Palin and her husband whether they were aware of any threats against her that the new bodyguards should be concerned about. "They specifically brought up only one person, and that was Mike Wooten," Bailey testified. "There was a serious genuine concern about not only their safety but the safety of their family, their kids, their nieces, nephews, her father, regarding Trooper Wooten." Bailey testified that Sarah Palin never asked him to do anything about Trooper Wooten, but that Todd Palin did talk to him about "issues about Trooper Wooten," and expressed "frustration" that the state police were doing nothing to respond to the Palins' concerns.

Sensisnow

09-05-2008, 10:56 PM

Tim, I usually enjoy your color-coded text and different font sizes to emphasize important topics,but that whole article is way too damn small, even with your added color.

timvwcom

09-05-2008, 11:04 PM

Tim, I usually enjoy your color-coded text and different font sizes to emphasize important topics,but that whole article is way too damn small, even with your added color.

I know, I know... But in addition to my highlighted portions, there are some decent counter arguments made in the rest of the article. My choices would have been;

1) Post the parts I liked and skipped the rest with NO link to full article.
2) Post the parts I liked and skipped the rest WITH link to full article.
3) Post the whole article and highlight the points I liked.
4) Post the whole article with NO highlights at all.

In the end I chose #3... makes it LONG, but also fair... and even though I'm a devout "Anybody but Bush" advocate, I strive to be fair first. I figure, if you are super lazy you're not in the PolAss to begin with... but those less interested will skim my highlights and just ignore the rest. Those REALLY interested can read the whole thing. I use the small text font to avoid it taking 10 pages on someones screen, and figure for those interested for whom the text is too small, the link I provide shows it in it's original format - probably easier to read. Hope everyone understands. :)

Edit: If I find lots of fluff in an article that just restates the original story, etc. I will usually snip it - then indicate that with a "..." so those who want the FULL story know more is available at the link.

2nd Edit: Just skimmed the whole thread... FYI this same argument probably applies to the articles shown earlier as well.

ak_powder_monkey

09-06-2008, 12:44 AM

just wait till she's indited on felony extortion charges.

timvwcom

09-06-2008, 01:00 AM

just wait till she's indited on felony extortion charges.

Tease!!! Spill it...

The Dad

09-06-2008, 01:25 AM

1) Post the parts I liked and skipped the rest with NO link to full article.
2) Post the parts I liked and skipped the rest WITH link to full article.
3) Post the whole article and highlight the points I liked.
4) Post the whole article with NO highlights at all.

or 5) Post exactly the same thing, just without using the SIZE tags to turn the text into fly shit.*

* A technical typographic term, FYI.

MTT

09-06-2008, 01:50 AM

She probably replaced him because he would not do something about her X Brother-in-law Dirt bag Trooper.

We all know about dirtbag pwertrippen Troopers, funny to see the Librodoushes comming to the defence of this guy?

I doubt this was the only reason, looks like he was not on the Sara (TEAM) his alliance was with others from the previous regime.

He was serving at the pleasure of the Governor of the State of Alaska, she did not even have to have a reason to replace him. She did not FIRE HIM FOR CAUSE, she replaced him.

That alone says even if she had shitty reasons? she did not violate any laws.

This woman already had a reputation for cutting people loose, why did this dude fuck with her?

If he bucked her because the request to fire a Highway Patrolman was out of pure spite and he was standing up for his men?

I doubt this is the whole story but who knows?

Anyway the dude fucked with this woman Governor named Sara and got the ultimate Fuck you.

I doubt this will get much play for long except by the most rabbit O’Bama lovers among us, who will do or say whatever to discredit the McCain Palen ticket.

My opinion of Sara Palen? I don't know yet need to hear more. We have till Nov 3rd to sort this all out and she is not running for President.

I do like most of what she says and the way she says it.

basom

09-06-2008, 07:10 AM

has anyone else run across this email yet?

i understand Anne and Sarah must be rivals, but this seems like something people should read.

About Sarah Palin: an e-mail from Wasilla
A suburban Anchorage homemaker and activist — who once did battle with the Alaska governor when Palin was mayor — recounts what she knows of Palin's history.

By Anne Kilkenny

Editor's note: The writer is a homemaker and education advocate in Wasilla, Alaska. Late last week, Anne Kilkenny penned an e-mail for her friends about vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, whom she personally knows, that has since circulated across comment forums and blogs nationwide. Here is her e-mail in its entirety, posted with her permission.

I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Gov. Sarah Palin since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first-name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99 percent of the residents of the city.

She is enormously popular; in every way she's like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice for vice president and won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because she is a "babe."

It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months.

She is "pro-life." She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby. There is no cover-up involved here; Trig is her baby.

She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.

She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.

Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin's kind of job is highly sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her lifestyle ever been anything like that of native Alaskans.

Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.

She's smart.

Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time) and less than two years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents.

During her mayoral administration, most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings, which had given rise to a recall campaign.

Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative." During her six years as mayor, she increased general government expenditures by more than 33 percent. During those same six years, the amount of taxes collected by the city increased by 38 percent. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax, which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefitted large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.

The huge increases in tax revenue during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list, though — borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt but left it with indebtedness of more than $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? Or a new library? No. $1 million for a park. $15 million-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex, which she rushed through, on a piece of property that the city didn't even have clear title to. That was still in litigation seven years later — to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5 million for road projects that could have been done in five to seven years without any borrowing.

While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once.

These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.

As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as governor Sarah proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state.

In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenue: Spend today's surplus, borrow for needs.

She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits but on the basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was mayor of Wasilla, she tried to fire our highly respected city librarian because the librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the city librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the librarian are on her enemies list to this day.

Sarah complained about the "old boy's club" when she first ran for mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys." Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the city and as governor, she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal — loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the state's top cop.

As mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla's police chief because he "intimidated" her, she told the press. As governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't fire her sister's ex-husband, a state trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than two dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.

She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town, introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal city administrator; even people who didn't like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.

Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her.

When then-Gov. Frank Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the best, chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission — one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil and gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job, which paid $122,400 a year, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this commission (who was also the state chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the "old boys' club," when she dramatically quit, exposing this man's ethics violations (for which he was fined).

As mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Sen. Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.

As governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects — which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance — but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as "anti-pork."

She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The state party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.

Around Wasilla, there are people who went to high school with Sarah. They call her "Sarah Barracuda" because of her unbridled ambition and predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah's mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and experienced manager, ran for mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.

basom

09-06-2008, 07:12 AM

continued

As governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of legislation known as "AGIA" that forced the oil companies to march to the beat of her drum.

Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She campaigned "as a private citizen" against a state initiaitive that would have either protected salmon streams from pollution from mines or tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on whom you listen to). She has pushed the state's lawsuit against the Department of the Interior's decision to list polar bears as a threatened species.

McCain is the oldest person to ever run for president; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being president.

There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she.

However, there are a lot of people who have underestimated her and are regretting it.

Claim vs. Fact

"Hockey mom": True for a few years
"PTA mom": True years ago when her first-born was in elementary school, not since
"NRA supporter": Absolutely true
Social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, but vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconsitutional).
Pro-creationism: Mixed. Supports it, but did nothing as governor to promote it.
"Pro-life": Mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby but declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation.
"Experienced": Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000.
Political maverick: Not at all.
Gutsy: Absolutely!
Open and transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions.
Has a developed philosophy of public policy: No.
"A Greenie": No. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
Fiscal conservative: Not by my definition!
Pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th century standards.
Pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on residents
Pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in Wasilla's history.
Pro-labor/pro-union: No. Just because her husband works union doesn't make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union.

Why am I writing this?

First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting programs in the schools. If you google my name, you will find references to my participation in local government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.

Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "bad things happen when good people stay silent." Few people know as much as I do because few have gone to as many City Council meetings.

Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out of. I don't belong to any organization that she can hurt. But I am no fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will cost me somehow in the future: that's life.

Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100 or so people who rallied to support the city librarian against Sarah's attempt at censorship.

Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.

Caveats: I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in spending and taxation two years ago (when Palin was running for governor) from information supplied to me by the finance director of the City of Wasilla, and I can't recall exactly what I adjusted for: Did I adjust for inflation? For population increases? Right now, it is impossible for a private person to get any info out of City Hall — they are swamped. So I can't verify my numbers.

You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000" up to 9,000. The day Palin's selection was announced, a city official told me that the current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-1990s.

Anne Kilkenny is a homemaker and education advocate in Wasilla, Alaska.

linky:http://www.crosscut.com/politics-government/17341

hutash

09-06-2008, 09:28 AM

basom

09-06-2008, 09:32 AM

^^^It has been posted her a couple of times

oopsies. i havent read most of threads, sorry for the redundancy.

Tippster

09-06-2008, 09:36 AM

Had I known that all it would take to get Basom posting again is nominating an Ultra-conservative Religious Zealot librarian type who looks decent in a skirt I would have done so long ago.

Glad you remembered your log-on, Mr. Smith.

Jer

09-06-2008, 09:38 AM

timvwcom

09-06-2008, 09:40 AM

You nominated Palin? I didn't even know you were a registered Republican.

You didn't know Tippster is McCain??? :nonono2:

natty dread

09-06-2008, 11:04 AM

^^^It has been posted her a couple of times, and is a very interesting read. I would dure like to see some confirmations about it. If it is all true, she is just a bitch, plain and simple. So far all the other evidence I have seen on Palin fits with the tone set in this e-mail. but I have not seen any independent confirmation of things like the library issue.

The letter and its author are real. Heard an interview with her on NPR yesterday. It was originally written to some friends and acquaintences of hers and within hours, it went viral.
The lady was down to earth and kinda amused by how the whole thing has blown up. She doesn't even have high speed internet, still uses dial-up!

basom

09-06-2008, 11:40 AM

The letter and its author are real. Heard an interview with her on NPR yesterday. It was originally written to some friends and acquaintences of hers and within hours, it went viral.
The lady was down to earth and kinda amused by how the whole thing has blown up. She doesn't even have high speed internet, still uses dial-up!

ah yes. there it is.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94332543

i wonder what the books were Palin wanted banned from the public library?

09-06-2008, 12:18 PM

I like her own analogy of a pitbull to a hockey mom while pointing at her own lipsticked face. I don't like pitbulls as a dog breed and I certainly don't like them as a human breed. The typical reference to a pitbull is as a savage, single minded, unrelenting, unthinking attacking machine and this is what she aspires to and compares herself to.

Cliff is correct about the 'right' wing gang being right in their own minds at least. They in fact are always right simply by virtue of never ever admitting to being wrong. All it takes is a slight rewrite of history, fabrication of facts and ignoring other facts to come up with a new justification of what makes your singleminded, unthinking poorly considered previous decision seem right at least to themselves and the highly gullible.

It's sort of like invading Iraq because of Saddam's links to Al Quaeda and possession of WMDs. When that all blows up as pure fabrication it simply becomes 'someone had to get a toehold for a democracy in the region'. See it's easy, just change the facts of why you went in and you can convince yourself (and the highly gullible) that you are still right and were all along. Never mind that it's simply circular logic first and foremost based on the belief they were right instead of any basis on the facts at hand.

Jer

09-06-2008, 12:37 PM

You didn't know Tippster is McCain??? :nonono2:

PWN3D!!!!!

BFD

09-06-2008, 04:36 PM

I received the email from Anne. She had asked not to post on any web sites for fear of kooks. Any way I guess the press have it. If her post has any influence on your decision any way or another, I will vouch for her and her accuracy of invents. The sales tax was raised ,Palin said to fund the police department but the money definitely went to increase her entire budget. As for the infrastructure Anne is right on with her assesment. Any improvements she made in Wasilla were through ear marks and raising taxes.
Just saw this from the local paper scary stuff.
Home > Breaking News
Print this story Email this story Post A Comment Digg del.icio.us
FROM THE ARCHIVE: Palin: Library censorship inquiries 'Rhetorical'
By PAUL STUART
Published on Friday, September 5, 2008 5:18 PM AKDT

Editor's note: This story first ran in the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman Dec. 18, 1996. It has been typeset and posted here to accommodate numerous requests for the story from media worldwide and curious individuals. Please note that not at any time were any books ever banned from the Wasilla city library.

WASILLA -- In the wake of strong reactions from the city's library director to inquiries about censorship, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin on Monday was taking pains to explain her questions about censoring library material were “rhetorical.”

Library Director Mary Ellen Emmons last week said Palin broached the subject with her on two occasions in October - once Palin was elected mayor Oct. 1 but before she took office on Oct. 14, and again in more detail on Monday, Oct. 28. Besides heading the Wasilla City Library, Emmons is also president of the Alaska Library Association.

The issue became public last Wednesday, when Palin brought it up during an interview about the now-defunct Liquor task Force. Palin used the library topic as an example of discussions with her department heads about understanding and following administration agendas. Palin said she asked Emmons how she would respond to censorship.

Emmons drew a clear distinction Saturday between the nature of Palin's inquiries and an established book-challenge policy in place in Wasilla, and in most public libraries.

“I'm not trying to suppress anyone's views,” Emmons said. “But I told her (Palin) clearly, I will fight anyone who tries to dictate what books can go on the library shelves.”

Palin said Monday she had no particular books or other material in mind when she posed the questions to Emmons.

Emmons said in the first conversation, before being sworn in as mayor, Palin briefly touched on the subject of censorship.

But on Monday, Oct. 28, Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books. This was during a weak when Palin was requesting resignations from all� the city's department heads as a way of expressing loyalty.

“This is different than a normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy,” Emmons stressed Saturday. “She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library.”

Monday Palin said in a written statement she was only trying to get aquatinted with her staff at the time. “Many issues were discussed, both rhetorical and realistic in nature,” Palin added.

Emmons recalled that the Oct. 28 conversation she pulled no punches with her response to the mayor.

“She asked me if I would object to censorship, and I replied 'Yup',” Emmons recounted Saturday. “And I told her it would not be just me. This was a constitutional question, and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) would get involved, too.”

Emmons said Palin asked her on Oct. 28 if she would object to censorship, even if people were circling the library in protest about a book. “I told her it would definitely be a problem the ACLU would take on then,” Emmons said

Asked who she thought might picket the library, Palin said Monday, “Had no one in mind ... again, the issue was discussed in the context of a professional question being asked in regards to library policy.

“All questions posed to Wasilla's library director were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city. Obviously the issue of censorship is a library question... you ask a library director that type of question,” Palin said

“Palin also said Monday censorship issues would not involve any departments other than the library.

Emmons said she has been offered help if it is ever needed on censorship issues from the state library association's Intellectual Freedom Committee and the National Freedom to Read Foundation.

Palin called Emmons into her office Monday to discuss the censorship questions again.

Palin also attended Friday's staff meeting at the library, but without mentioning censorship , Emmons said.

“I'm hoping it was just a trial balloon,” Emmons said, “because the free exchange of information is my main job, and I'll fight anyone who tries to interfere with that.”

The timing of the issue comes at a time when Emmons is trying to get the book-challenge policies of the Wasilla Library and of the Palmer City Library in line with the Mat-Su Borough policy, revised in December of last year.

Emmons described the new borough policy as “a very good one.”

It is a step-by-step blueprint of procedures for anyone wanting to challenge the selection and availability of library material, Emmons explained. “it is a good process, and almost all public libraries have one.”

The borough's policy was revised mainly to replace the borough manager as the final decision maker with a formal Reconsideration Committee Mat-Su Borough Manager Don Moore said Saturday that changes were made, with the blessings, after a dispute that was resolved about two years ago involving a challenged book at the Big Lake Library.

Emmons said the current Wasilla policy, which she described as written in more general terms than the borough's, also worked procedurally in a book-challenge case last year. Emmons said then-council-woman Palin was distressed about the issue when it came up, indicating she was aware of the city's book-challenge policy.

Emmons said in the conversations with now-Mayor Palin in October, she reminded her again that the city has a policy in place. “But it seamed clear to me that wasn't really what she was talking about anyhow,” Emmons added. “I just hope it doesn't come up again.”

Meanwhile, Emmons said she is working with borough libraries boss Bruce Urban and Palmer Library Director Janice Sanford, in the hope of getting the cities to adopt a book-challenge policy identical to the borough's.

timvwcom

09-08-2008, 02:03 PM

Well, the more that comes out the more I think Palin = Bush/Cheney. :nonono2: I had read before that Palin's husband Todd had been rumored to be her hammer in firing anyone who she wasn't sure was 100% loyal... sounds like maybe more than just smoke to that story;

Gov. Palin hiding husband's correspondence related to trooper union (http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Gov._Palin_hiding_husbands_correspondence_related_ 0908.html)
E-mails between Todd Palin, Gov's aides among hundreds kept secret

Dozens of e-mails exchanged among several government employees and Todd Palin, the husband of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin who has no formal role in her administration, are not being turned over in response to an open records request in the state.

The e-mails are being kept secret ostensibly because they deal with policy deliberations between the governor and her staff, the contents of which do not have to be disclosed to the public. However, Todd Palin's presence in the e-mail chains seems to belie concerns that their contents need to remain strictly in the domain of the state government.

Another possible reason for the withholding is the political damage that could accompany disclosure of the e-mails. According to subject lines of the e-mails, they seem to deal with a public sector union representing Alaska state troopers that the Palins have been feuding with for years as well as one of the governor's main political opponents.

...(much more at link)...

The story originates at Mother Jones... here is the link (http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/09/9620_sarah_palin_secret_email.html), and the summary paragraph... again, much more at the link.

The Palin administration won't release hundreds of emails from her office, claiming they cover confidential policy matters. Then why do the subject lines refer to a political foe, a journalist, and non-policy topics?

...

basom

09-08-2008, 08:04 PM

possible subpoenas:http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB122084155153309153.html?mod=special_page_campaig n2008_leftbox

Cono Este

09-08-2008, 08:13 PM

tim- this is beneath u to jump on every little blip in this story. Remember 'hope" is a 4 letter word like, shit, fuck.

You can do better.

timvwcom

09-08-2008, 08:24 PM

tim- this is beneath u to jump on every little blip in this story. Remember 'hope" is a 4 letter word like, shit, fuck.

You can do better.

I rather doubt it... I hate Bush and his ilk with a passion that wouldn't fit in the bounds of simple words and letters. McCain and Palin are clearly just more of the same... I am clearly a "political asshat". Sorry! :(

Stikki

09-08-2008, 08:36 PM

McCain is playing the old bait and switch. After he wins in November Palin gets ousted by Toopergate and in comes Lieberman. Brilliant!

Cono Este

09-08-2008, 08:39 PM

Sure, but wouldn't your effort be better served among a community where you may actually be able to effect the outcome of the election?

It is "hope" isnt it? Beating this over and over again.

Your like a fliy on troopergate shit.

Anyway, a few weeks ago, you said Obama was a lock. So what's the worry?

Big Balls

09-08-2008, 09:01 PM

basom

09-09-2008, 05:36 AM

Big Balls

09-09-2008, 06:43 AM

um... what the fuck are you talking about? i was unaware that Gov. palin's college record had anything to do with her breaking the law and abusing her power while in office years later.

Then why was almost the entire first page of posts about how many years it took her to get her degree as if you're a moron if you don't get a 4-year from Harvard in 2 and a half?

Tuckerman

09-09-2008, 07:03 AM

http://philip9876.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/nuclear-explosion.jpg

hutash

09-09-2008, 12:34 PM

Haha. You Dems never learn. You realize most Americans don't have ANY degree in ANY amount of time right? You realize most Americans consider it their proudest achievement when they see their kid obtain a degree in ANY amount of time. It is completely freakin amazing how blindly stupid you elitest Dems are. Go ahead, keep looking down and thumbing your nose at all Americans and keep calling them stupid everytime they don't vote for you.

Let's put it in simple terms...If you are interviewing to hire a CEO for a major company and you are looking a two resumes, one has Harvard law school, high ranking, and the other has U of Idaho broadcast journalism degree, most of whic was done at third rate colleges, who would you hire?

I am belittling a college education, but I am belittling certain levels of higher education as reflects the ability to lead a country.

Anybody with half a brain and six years can get a degree from U of I, but only are very small number of people have the intelligence and drive to obtain a Harvard law degree.

timvwcom

09-09-2008, 12:41 PM

...but we are belittle certain higher education levels as reflects the ability to lead a country.

...but only are very small number of people have the intelligence and drive to obtain a Harvard law degree.

Some people have a way with words. Others... not have way I guess? :D
(editing makes not flow sometimes wording)

hutash

09-09-2008, 02:18 PM

Some people have a way with words. Others... not have way I guess? :D
(editing makes not flow sometimes wording)

Which is why I am not running for vice president. :D

I wrote that in a hurry, and was not paying attention. I just spent four fucking hours in jury duty, and we were finally being dismissed for lunch so I was trying to finish up and get my brain functioning again.

Big Balls

09-09-2008, 02:22 PM

timvwcom

09-09-2008, 02:26 PM

Wait first you guys claimed for 9 months that we need a new kind of politician and then you now say "oh wait, my bad, they do have to come from Harvard, Princeton or Yale afterall".

Ohhh... our bad. See we meant we wanted a President who wasn't stupid. We'll try and be more clear next time.

http://lesbianpiratequeen.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/stupid_bush.jpg

MTT

09-09-2008, 02:31 PM

Let's put it in simple terms...If you are interviewing to hire a CEO for a major company and you are looking a two resumes, one has Harvard law school, high ranking, and the other has U of Idaho broadcast journalism degree, most of whic was done at third rate colleges, who would you hire?

I am belittling a college education, but I am belittling certain levels of higher education as reflects the ability to lead a country.

Anybody with half a brain and six years can get a degree from U of I, but only are very small number of people have the intelligence and drive to obtain a Harvard law degree.

I do not nessesarily find this to be true. Real world accomplishments mean more to me. A persons history after finishing School means more to me for evaluation.

And A question How many Harvard Law Grads have become President or even Govenor of a State.

Why is a (Lawyer's Lawyer) The best person to run things. O'Bama might have GREAT Knowledge of the LAW but is he desicive? Or does he just think in terms of (IS IT leagle) Not (Is It FAIR) or IS IT RIGHT.

Nor saying this for sure about OBama but Top of Class Harvard LAW? Say to me success as a corperate?? Maybe President Palin will appoint him as a Federal Judge 6 years from now? But I dobt that, he is way too ambishous to settle for that

MTT

09-09-2008, 02:35 PM

hutash

09-09-2008, 02:38 PM

Wait first you guys claimed for 9 months that we need a new kind of politician and then you now say "oh wait, my bad, they do have to come from Harvard, Princeton or Yale afterall".

No one ever said they had to come from Harvard, Princeton or Yale. Annapolis, West Point, Stanford, UCLA, Notre Dame, to name just a small few, would be fine. I really don't have a problem with some one coming out of University of Idaho, but I expect them to come out near the top of their class, in a challenging field, and do so in a minimal amount of time to show they have the ability, desire and intelligence to get things done.

Big Balls

09-09-2008, 02:39 PM

You know for all the talk of Harvard Law this and Harvard Law that the most popular and rich lawyers I know of all have surprisingly unimpressive resumes. Community college, some 4 year public, and then law school from some college I've never heard of. The fact is this isn't Europe or Japan. Very little has to do with where you got your degree from then what you do with it afterwards. The most successful people I know in their late 20's and early 30's either didn't even go to college or didn't finish. College grads work for the highschool grads who were putting their businesses together while the others were paying $30,000 of debt for attending Poetry 301.

Big Balls

09-09-2008, 02:41 PM

No one ever said they had to come from Harvard, Princeton or Yale. Annapolis, West Point, Stanford, UCLA, Notre Dame, to name just a small few, would be fine. I really don't have a problem with some one coming out of University of Idaho, but I expect them to come out near the top of their class, in a challenging field, and do so in a minimal amount of time to show they have the ability, desire and intelligence to get things done.

They don't know how to get things done. They know how to tell others to get things done. It's like an officer in the military convincing someone he actually does shit.

timvwcom

09-09-2008, 02:45 PM

The press has now been drigging deento this. I suspect they have talked to everyone by now? I am not hearing much? Only thing out there now is We don't get to see her Husbands E-Mails? Thats it?

I susperct if some really damaging were found it would be all over the place by now!!

If it turned out Nothing bad was done? WE hear Crickets and on to the next potential thing. I belive its her Religous belifes now?

Fuck it, To lazy to spell check

Well...

It turns out that ALL SEVEN of the people scheduled to be interviewed for the investigation have now all at once refused to testify... The meeting on obtaining subpoenas for these people is on Thursday or Friday.

Here is the update on it from the Wall Street Journal;

Alaska Officials Weigh Subpoenas
For Palin Staff Over Firing (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB122084155153309153.html?mod=special_page_campaig n2008_leftbox)

An Alaska state investigation into Gov. Sarah Palin's firing of her public safety commissioner is turning into a power struggle between the state's executive and legislative branches.

While Gov. Palin, Republican presidential nominee John McCain's running mate, hits the campaign trail, lawmakers in Alaska are scheduled to meet Friday to decide whether to issue subpoenas to at least seven Palin administration officials.

All of the officials had previously agreed to meet with the independent investigator looking into Gov. Palin's firing of Commissioner Walt Monegan in July. Her critics say she did so because he refused to fire a state trooper who was involved in a bitter divorce with Gov. Palin's sister.

But the state officials canceled shortly before the depositions, just after Sen. McCain picked the governor as his running mate, which gave a national profile to what had been a local controversy.

Now the governor's lawyer has forbidden her staff from any direct contact with the investigator, forcing the lawmakers to consider subpoenas, according to a news release issued Friday by the bipartisan leadership of the state House and Senate Judiciary committees. A Palin spokesman said that was a "routine" letter requiring the investigator to go through the lawyer. The spokesman, Taylor Griffin, was unable to identify any Palin aide who had talked to the investigator since the lawyer had issued the gag order.

"This was such an orderly process prior to this unique honor of Gov. Palin being selected as candidate for vice president," House Judiciary Chairman Jay Ramras, a Republican, said Sunday. "We're just trying to discharge our duty, which is to share in the oversight in addressing this issue without trying to politically charge it."

Big Balls

09-09-2008, 02:54 PM

Haha I LOVE this! What a trap you liberals fell into. It's just amazing that you STILL don't see it!

Jer

09-09-2008, 03:50 PM

Shhhhhh!!!

Quiet!

shhhhhhhh...

here that?

that's the sound of......

fail.

hutash

09-09-2008, 06:31 PM

Well...

It turns out that ALL SEVEN of the people scheduled to be interviewed for the investigation have now all at once refused to testify... The meeting on obtaining subpoenas for these people is on Thursday or Friday.

Here is the update on it from the Wall Street Journal;

This what I expect a real reformer, a true maverick, to do to clean up Washington. Practice obfuscation at the state level so you will be ready at the national level. Bush and Chaney could learn a lot from Palin. Maybe I have been wrong and she is ready to lead the country. She sure has the Bush/Chaney techniques down before she even gets to Washington.

This whole Troopergate is not that big a deal, other then to show what a dooche she is by trying so hard to disrupt the whole thing.

timvwcom

09-11-2008, 11:45 AM

I guess nothing should surprise me anymore... she is a Republican after all. How does "Lipstick on Cheney" sound???

Palin May Move to Block Subpoenas in Trooper Case (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=a0CNk3xMazXE)

...Sarah Palin's administration is considering steps to block a legislative probe into allegations she improperly fired the state's No. 1 police official...

timvwcom

09-12-2008, 01:03 PM

Hmmm... looks like this still has legs?

Investigator seeks to subpoena Todd Palin (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26677221/)
Probe also wants to subpoena 13 witnesses, key Palin aide

updated 19 minutes ago

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - The investigator looking into whether Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin abused her power in trying to fire her former brother-in-law is asking state lawmakers for the power to subpoena Palin's husband, Todd.

The probe has taken on new significance since Republican presidential candidate John McCain picked Palin as his running mate.

Retired prosecutor Stephen Branchflower asked the state House and Senate judiciary committees for power to subpoena 13 witnesses, including Todd Palin. The committees were expected to grant the request.

Branchflower said he wants to interview Palin herself, but did not ask for a subpoena for her.

PeterPan11

09-12-2008, 01:44 PM

Everyone in here suffers from the "I'm right, you're wrong" syndrome.

David Witherspoon

09-12-2008, 01:45 PM

You're wrong.

PeterPan11

09-12-2008, 01:46 PM

David. Don't ingnore my opinions. They will make you stronger.

hutash

09-12-2008, 01:58 PM

You're wrong, I'm right...you see, they are 180 degrees different, therefore I'm right, you're wrong

PeterPan11

09-12-2008, 02:01 PM

You're right, I'm right?

timvwcom

09-12-2008, 02:55 PM

You're right, I'm right?

Since you haven't figured out how TGR works just yet... I'll help you out; You are BOTH wrong, I'm right! :p

On the Troopergate front, the subpoena for husband Todd WAS APPROVED;

'Troopergate' Inquiry Reaches Palin Husband (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5789742&page=1)
State Legislators Approve Subpoena of Todd Palin

Alaska state legislators approved subpoenas for the husband of GOP vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and 12 others, as part of an ongoing investigation into whether Palin abused her power as state governor.

In a nondescript conference room filled to capacity, a Republican-dominated panel of lawmakers voted to issue subpoenas to force testimony by Alaska "First Gentleman" Todd Palin and a dozen current and former state officials, including aides to Gov. Palin, to determine whether she had misused her authority in firing one of her commissioners in July.

A lawyer for Palin and her aides, Thomas V. Van Flein, said the subpoenas were "a legal issue that will have to be evaluated and discussed with clients."

Special counsel Stephen Branchflower, who is conducting the probe, said Palin was a "central figure" in the events he is investigating. He said the subpoenas were necessary because individuals declined to answer questions voluntarily. Several had previously agreed to interviews with Branchflower, he said, but later cancelled them. The subpoenas mark the latest chapter in a scandal that began as a local flap but rocketed to the nation's front pages when McCain picked Palin as his running mate nearly two weeks ago.

PeterPan11

09-12-2008, 03:00 PM

Timvwcom,

You're right, I'm right. Only one period used.

timvwcom

09-12-2008, 03:17 PM

Timvwcom,

You're right, I'm right. Only one period used.

It's unpossible for me to write more than 5 words without an ellipses... and maybe even for me to have 2 subsequent questions without triple question marks? I think???

On the vote for subpoenas... THIS is ironic;

The state Senate Judiciary Committee voted 3-2 today to subpoena 13 people -- including the husband of Gov. Sarah Palin -- in an investigation of whether Palin abused her power in trying to get her former brother-in-law fired.

What's interesting is that committee is controlled by Republicans -- three of them compared to two Democrats. The two Democrats voted to issue the subpoenas, including one targeting Todd Palin. That left three Republicans able to block them. Yet one of them defected.

His name is Charlie Huggins, and he represents ... Wasilla.

Haha Hahhhah ahahh Hhahha... phew.

PeterPan11

09-12-2008, 03:50 PM

I'm saying: You're right about me being right. You're right, I'm right. We aren't both right about me being right. Two rights make a wrong. So maybe we're both wrong.

Mathematics

09-12-2008, 04:12 PM

Todd Palin is subpoenaed

http://www.adn.com/palin/story/524038.html

ouch.

Tye 1on

09-12-2008, 04:23 PM

PenisPan, you ain't right til you learn to highlight and use purty colors like Timmeh...

timvwcom

09-15-2008, 03:00 PM

Looks like it'll be hard for Palin to keep her husbands emails hidden, or not?

Palin asked to release her husband's e-mails (http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/091408/sta_332203923.shtml)

...

In July, the governor's office refused to disclose the contents of about 40 e-mails between Todd Palin and Gov. Palin's administration as part of a larger public records request by McLeod. Other e-mails between Todd Palin and the governor's staff were released, McLeod said, but had some parts redacted. Todd Palin is copied as a recipient on most of the e-mails but also authored a few.

Some of the subject lines of the withheld e-mails, which were created between Feb. 1 and Apr. 15. of this year, included: "Andrew Halcro," and "PSEA." Halcro is a political rival of Palin. The PSEA is the union that represents the Alaska State Troopers, including trooper Mike Wooten, who is divorced from Gov. Palin's sister and is also a key figure in the investigation of Monegan's firing.

In redacting or denying the request for e-mails, the governor's office mostly cited Gov. Palin's right to a "deliberative process privilege," a law designed to let public officials receive candid advice from their staff and consultants regarding matters of the state without fear of that advice going public.

But McLeod's lawyer, Donald Mitchell, said Gov. Palin waived that privilege when Todd Palin was included in her staff's e-mails. Documents released to one member of the public have to be available to all members of the public, he said.

...

But other experts weren't as sure.

John McKay, an attorney who teaches media law in at the University of Alaska Anchorage and has represented numerous media organizations in Alaska including the parent company of the Juneau Empire, said he needs to know more about why the state is invoking the deliberative process privilege before he can say whether its reasons are valid.

"It obliviously raises questions on the face of it," McKay said. "but without knowing more, I can't tell how those questions should be answered."

Media expert Carl Stern, a professor emeritus of media and policy affairs at George Washington University in Washington, D.C., said Gov. Palin needs to show that Todd Palin was in a "privileged circle" of advisers if she wants to have a leg to stand on in arguing that the deliberative process privilege extends to her husband.

..."

timvwcom

09-15-2008, 09:21 PM

Looks like I have a couple more updates. Sorry fer being such an asshat on th... wait a minute, that's right - in here I CAN be an asshat. Go fuck yer self then.

Fired Alaska official now talking to news media... already testified to investigators.

Fired Official: Governor Did Not Tell the Truth to ABC (http://www.abcnews.go.com/print?id=5804703)
Walt Monegan Says He Was Called to Gov.'s Office Over a "Private Family Matter"

"She's not telling the truth when she told ABC neither she nor her husband pressured me to fire Trooper Wooten," said Walt Monegan, the Alaskan official whose dismissal by Sarah Palin is the focus of a state investigation known as "Troopergate". "And she's not telling the truth to the media about her reasons for firing me."

In an exclusive interview with ABC News.com, former Alaska Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan said he resisted pressure by the First Couple to re-open an old case against a state trooper, who was in a hotly contested divorce and custody battle with the Governor's sister Molly.

Alaskan lawmakers are investigating whether Palin and her husband used the power of the Governor's office to conduct a personal vendetta against their former brother-in-law, whose behavior during the 2005 divorce was described by the Palin family as " threatening."

In a 20/20 interview, Palin told ABC's Charles Gibson she dismissed Monegan for poor job performance and that neither she nor her husband pressured Monegan to fire State Trooper Wooten. "We never did. I never pressured him to hire or fire anybody," Palin said.

But Monegan told ABC News.com he was summoned to a meeting with Todd Palin in December 2006, shortly after Sarah Palin became governor.

"I was called to her Anchorage formal Governor's office to talk with Todd Palin about an issue that was a private family matter," recounted Monegan. Todd became "upset," Monegan recalled, when told the allegations had already been investigated and the case would not be re-opened.

"When Sarah later called to tell me the same thing, I thought to myself, 'I may not be long for this job.'" But, Monegan said, he stood by his position. "I held the public trust. As Chief, I was responsible."

Governor Palin initially agreed to "cooperate fully" with the Alaska state legislative investigation but since being chosen as John McCain's running mate both she and her husband have refused to testify voluntarily. Friday the legislature issued a subpoena for Todd Palin.

Monegan said he tried to persuade the first couple to drop the matter. "As a cop for 35 years I'm pretty familiar with issues that come up in divorce cases," and said his argument to both Todd and Sarah was, "if this was so egregious, why didn't you bring it up sooner? Why did you wait until several years later?"

Monegan, who gave sworn testimony behind closed doors for nearly eight hours last week, said he also provided the State's investigator with copies of e-mails he received from the Governor in which she referred in disparaging terms to her former brother-in-law.

"This is not a 'he said she said' situation. Others were contacted by Todd and Sarah as well," according to Monegan, who said he was confident the investigation would find adequate documentation to corroborate his testimony.

...

Palin refusing to meet with investigator, husband may not honor subpoena;

Palin unlikely to speak with investigator (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_el_pr/palin_troopergate;_ylt=AnpYap2s.jJR9QKDN4RagD1I2oc A)

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Gov. Sarah Palin is unlikely to speak with an independent counsel hired by Alaska lawmakers to review the firing of her public safety commissioner, a spokesman for Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Monday.

Spokesman Ed O'Callaghan said he has not spoken with Palin, but she was "unlikely to cooperate" with the inquiry "as long as it remains tainted."

O'Callaghan also said he did not know whether Palin's husband, Todd, would challenge a subpoena issued last Friday to compel his cooperation. Thomas Van Flein, the Palins' lawyer, who has accepted service of the subpoena, did not return messages seeking comment. The governor herself has not been subpoenaed, but the Legislature's investigator, Steve Branchflower, has said he hopes to speak with her.

...

splat

09-16-2008, 03:59 PM

AKPM4VP!

lemon boy

09-17-2008, 02:17 PM

MTT

09-17-2008, 02:27 PM

I have a line of reasoning on this that I think is pretty close to right and encourage anyone to have a crack at it:

Regardless of the reason she fired Monegon: it is obvious that by pressuring Monegon, she attempted to abuse her power in the pursuit of a personal vendetta. If she were in fact acting in the public good and trying to get a rouge officer off the streets (and I agree, he should have been fired), her beef should not have been getting him fired. Her beef should have been getting the system changed to hold troopers to a much higher standard and then firing him.

I suspect that the difficulty in recruiting officers there means that an effort to bring their standards up to near the national norm would further erode the number of officers and as such there is no will to change the policy. Bringing us back to this being a vendetta.

I saw this back in the beginning but it seems to be coming out again, Wooten was not playing on the Palin team, she was publicly complimenting him at the beginning of her term but in the background they were at odds about quite a few things. He even went so for as to go to Washington DC to seek funding for (Something) that she had denied. E-Mails and public derogatory statements about Gov. Palin. He was asking to be replaced!!

I am sure the Brother-in law issue was icing on the cake.

This is going to go her way, sooner than later

lemon boy

09-17-2008, 02:40 PM

I saw this back in the beginning but it seems to be coming out again, Wooten was not playing on the Palin team, she was publicly complimenting him at the beginning of her term but in the background they were at odds about quite a few things. He even went so for as to go to Washington DC to seek funding for (Something) that she had denied. E-Mails and public derogatory statements about Gov. Palin. He was asking to be replaced!!

I am sure the Brother-in law issue was icing on the cake.

This is going to go her way, sooner than later
Errrrr you're confusing things.

Monegan, not Wooten was the dude that got fired.

My contention is that Palin attempted to abuse her authority by trying to get Wooten fired. Monegan's firing is immaterial other than as icing on the cake of her abusing her authority. This is pure vendetta and if it were really about getting rid of a bad cop she would have addressed systemic problems within the HWP.

timvwcom

09-17-2008, 02:45 PM

Either way... if there was nothing there, she'd/they'd let it be investigated completely and cleared before the election, but by trying to spike the investigation in it's tracks, it looks clear to me there is fire behind the smoke on this one.

MTT

09-17-2008, 03:26 PM

Errrrr you're confusing things.

Monegan, not Wooten was the dude that got fired.

My contention is that Palin attempted to abuse her authority by trying to get Wooten fired. Monegan's firing is immaterial other than as icing on the cake of her abusing her authority. This is pure vendetta and if it were really about getting rid of a bad cop she would have addressed systemic problems within the HWP.

Thanks for the correction,
And to me, it appears she did attempt to address systemic Problems within the HWP

SHE Replaced the Top Cop (Monegan)

Your going to see what you want to see, but there is now a paper trail that very clearly points out a big disconnect between Monegan and Palin. Not good for Monegan he was not in an elected office his job is appointed by the Govenor of the State of Alaska.

So you are saying she is Vindictive (Maybe)? and Stupid ? I have not seen evidence of stupid.

rideit

09-17-2008, 03:29 PM

I have not seen evidence of stupid.
you DID hear about her college experience?

MTT

09-17-2008, 03:33 PM

you DID hear about her college experience?

Yea, SO?
And her husband Todd, only has a high School education (As of 18)

And her oldest son has gone into the millitary and has NOT EVEN gone to college.

I'm not (IN LOVE) with Sara Palin but I sure respect and admire what her and her familly have done with there life.

I think its just about what kind of people they are. Obama and his supporters are (CITY PEOPLE) Palin is (Country People)

McCain is (Not City People)

I am Country people.

lemon boy

09-17-2008, 03:40 PM

Thanks for the correction,
And to me, it appears she did attempt to address systemic Problems within the HWP

SHE Replaced the Top Cop (Monegan)

Uh no. The systemic problem at the HWP is that their disciplinary proceedure (and hiring screening process apparently) are in no way sufficient to keep out officers like Wooten. This is a formal process and hiring and firing the top cop has really nothing to do with that process. She would have to move to make fundamental administrative changes to that process. Which she did not.

Your going to see what you want to see, but there is now a paper trail that very clearly points out a big disconnect between Monegan and Palin. Not good for Monegan he was not in an elected office his job is appointed by the Govenor of the State of Alaska.
Again, you keep coming back to Monegan's firing which isn't really an issue. Everyone agrees she has the authority to do so. What is at question is whether or not she abused her authority with respect to a personal vendetta. And her releasing some documents in no way clears her. Sorry, no cherry picking.

and Stupid ? I have not seen evidence of stupid.
You don't think that the patently transparent lying is stupid?

Sorry but it's not just stupid, it's fucking stupid.

David Witherspoon

09-17-2008, 03:53 PM

McCain is (Not City People)Might wanna pull up them waders thar - smells like the bullshit's been seeping in.

I am Country people.Okayyyy? ... so what does that have to do with how you should vote?

rideit

09-17-2008, 03:57 PM

Newsflash...McCain IS city folk.
in seven different cities, apparently.

MTT

09-17-2008, 04:00 PM

Might wanna pull up them waders thar - smells like the bullshit's been seeping in.

Okayyyy? ... so what does that have to do with how you should vote?

IGenerally don't like or trust (CITY PEOPLE)

They make fun of the very things I find important and somehow find a level of stupidity in what I believe in.

I feel the same about them, its always been the same story

Look at the election map! the country always seems to be divided into East coast/ west Coast population centers versus the whole rest of the country.

And then California is smaller version of the entire country, two major population centers where 60% of the population reside (VERY LIBERAL) and then the whole rest of the state (Country People)

It looks like my State of Nevada might swing liberal this year, and I will tell you why,

We have had a large influx of (Liberal CITY PEOPLE) move here from the Population centers in California. The same people who fucked that place up have now migrated here and want to make it just like the place they left ???:nonono2

gorms

09-17-2008, 04:08 PM

David Witherspoon

09-17-2008, 04:10 PM

IGenerally don't like or trust (CITY PEOPLE)
So, basically you're a bigoted, knee-jerk stereotyping xenophobic moron?
Did someone forget to tell you that most Americans are "(CITY PEOPLE?)" Expexially on the internets.

I think you may have a problem with more than just "CITY PEOPLE."
I think you may have a problem with "PEOPLE WHO AREN'T AS STUPID AS MTT."

And of course you still haven't answered the question:
How should your prejudice against whatever you call "(CITY PEOPLE)" influence your vote?

Anyway. Do tell us, now; just what is it that you find important?

MTT

09-17-2008, 04:18 PM

So, basically you're a bigoted, knee-jerk stereotyping xenophobic moron?
Did someone forget to tell you that most Americans are "(CITY PEOPLE?)" Expexially on the internets.

I think you may have a problem with more than just "CITY PEOPLE."
I think you may have a problem with "PEOPLE WHO AREN'T AS STUPID AS MTT."

And of course you still haven't answered the question:
How should your prejudice against whatever you call "(CITY PEOPLE)" influence your vote?

Anyway. Do tell us, now; just what is it that you find important?

SEE. I don't agree with you so I am stupid?

OK

: You live in Utah correct? Must be hell being surrounded by Stupid people?

Edit, I am being stupid typing this shit on TGR instead of doing my very lucritave (Work From Home) job. I need to shape up or I'm going to lose it

Buster Highmen

09-17-2008, 04:18 PM

Well fuckall if I didn't grow up a rural hayseed that now lives in one of them big shitties.

David Witherspoon

09-17-2008, 04:24 PM

SEE. I don't agree with you so I am stupid?No, no, no! Only someone who was really STUPID would draw that conclusion from what I posted.

You got it backwards. It goes like this:

First STUPID - THEN disagreement.
Because of STUPID.
Not "Disagree - therefore STUPID".

See?

Must be hell being surrounded by Stupid people?Not a problem. I'm surrounded by geniuses, really smart people, and ordinarily smart people. We kinda like it here.

But you're still dodging the question:
How should being "(COUNTRY PEOPLE)" affect your vote?

Edit, I am being stupid typing this shit on TGR instead of doing my very lucritave (Work From Home) job. I need to shape up or I'm going to lose itRun away, run away. BTW - get a browser with a spellcheck. You won't sound quite as (STUPID).

MTT

09-17-2008, 04:30 PM

No, no, no! Only someone who was really STUPID would draw that conclusion from what I posted.

You got it backwards. It goes like this:

First STUPID - THEN disagreement.
Because of STUPID.
Not "Disagree - therefore STUPID".

See?

Not a problem. I'm surrounded by geniuses, really smart people, and ordinarily smart people. We kinda like it here.

But you're still dodging the question:
How should being "(COUNTRY PEOPLE)" affect your vote?

Run away, run away. BTW - get a browser with a spellcheck. You won't sound quite as (STUPID).

Speel check does not seem to work when posting on TGR, I have to type in Word and then paste in TGR to get bills help.

And I am lazy :biggrin:

David Witherspoon

09-17-2008, 04:32 PM

Nuthin' rong with lazi. FWIW, Firefox spellcheck works on TGR. It seez thet neerly evry werd hier is mispeled.

How should being "(COUNTRY PEOPLE)" affect your vote?

David Witherspoon

09-17-2008, 05:29 PM

Right. IBM, Websphere, DB2. Sometimes easier to just go along. True dat. Don't envy you that backend.
P.S. Crass3k is having some trouble with his browser's emotions, sounds like he could use a hand.

Tippster

09-17-2008, 05:37 PM

I'd still like to get a definition of what "Small Town Values" are, and how they are different from "Large Town Values."

Oh - John McCain spends most of his time in DC or in Suburban Phoenix... both (CITIES) supposedly.

Rubicon

09-17-2008, 06:53 PM

I'd still like to get a definition of what "Small Town Values" are, and how they are different from "Large Town Values."

STV=family, friends, community, god, country, and an environment that encourages these things.

LTV=career, success, accomplishment, wealth, sophistication, and an environment that encourages these things.

I grew up in dem big cities but I gots plenty of kin folk in da country and dey don't likes dem big city folks, not at all. Dems bad for society and whats right(unless theys family o'corse).

Oh - John McCain spends most of his time in DC or in Suburban Phoenix... both (CITIES) supposedly.

True, but he presents himself with enough unpolished genuineness that he doesn't come off like...well, like Obama does. That has a certain appeal for a lot of people.

Tippster

09-17-2008, 07:49 PM

I know this, but it's retarded. Small town people want to be successful. City folk love their families and their country. Show me a farmer who isn't career oriented or a hunter who isn't concerned about the environment of their prey of choice. One of the biggest wetlands conservation groups is Ducks Unlimited.

...he presents himself with enough unpolished genuineness that he doesn't come off like...well, like Obama does.
So he fakes it well? Have you learned NOTHING from good ol' boy Dubya? It's an ACT.

Rubicon

09-17-2008, 08:45 PM

I know this, but it's retarded. Small town people want to be successful. City folk love their families and their country.

Of course they do. But it's the priority each one holds in their life that creates the distinctions. People find identity in what makes then different from the guy in the next town, or the next state. We have a diverse country and one guy is trying to get everyone to identify with him and not the other guy. Identity based politics is bound to rear it's ugly head in this kind of situation.

It is retarded. But what are you going to do?

So he fakes it well? Have you learned NOTHING from good ol' boy Dubya? It's an ACT.

I don't know if it's an act or not. I have never meet the guy.

But it makes me wonder, how long do you have to live an act 24/7 before it is no longer an act?

David Witherspoon

09-17-2008, 09:47 PM

It is retarded. But what are you going to do?
Call it what it is, wherever you see it.
Replace it with good reasons for voting.

Those who can think at all will be more likely to try if they realize the simple wrongness of their gut instincts.

hutash

09-18-2008, 10:07 AM

^^^my gut tells me you are right, but what's a guy supposed to do?;)

David Witherspoon

09-18-2008, 10:33 AM

Have a sandwich or something, it'll make your gut less talkative. :biggrin:

Then think about some medicine:
A pound of cure prompts an ounce of prevention. (http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0917/p01s02-usec.html)

09-18-2008, 11:01 AM

STV=family, friends, community, god, country, and an environment that encourages these things.

LTV=career, success, accomplishment, wealth, sophistication, and an environment that encourages these things.

is that your stereotype du jour? :rolleyes:

ArmadaBC

09-18-2008, 11:23 AM

Why do you describe (PEOPLE) in parenthesis?

Apparently this book holds the key to American politics
http://www.pabook.libraries.psu.edu/FamilyLit/FFN/workshop3/images/booklist/city%20mouse%20and%20country%20mouse%20williams.jp g

That is fucking hilarious, the small town/big city shit is so fucking stupid.

I live here - http://www.co.berks.pa.us/berks/site/default.asp - but then who do I vote for ?

timvwcom

09-18-2008, 11:30 AM

...but then who do I vote for ?

Looks like if you crap in a hole in the ground, you are suppose to vote McCain. If you use one of them new fangled porcelin thingies, vote for Obama?

timvwcom

09-18-2008, 12:04 PM

This is a good update on a bunch of topics and thought worth posting in its entirety, the links add even more detail;

AK Lawmaker on Trooper-Gate: "I Don't Think This Is Gonna End Quietly." (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/ak_lawmaker_on_troopergate_i_d.php)

By Zachary Roth - September 18, 2008, 12:05PM

The no-holds-barred effort by the McCain campaign and its Alaska Republican allies to bury the Trooper-Gate investigation at all costs may be bearing fruit.

Republicans have in recent days been calling on Democratic senator Kim Elton to reconvene the bipartisan legislative council with ultimate responsibility for the probe. And yesterday Elton told the Associated Press (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/09/troopergate_probe_appears_to_b.php) that he may do so, allowing for a vote on whether to delay the investigation or replace Democratic senator Hollis French as its manager.

The council, which contains 10 Republicans and four Democrats, had voted unanimously in July (http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/478090.html) to launch the investigation. But many observers believe that, now that the probe could play a role in the presidential race, the committee's GOP members will vote to shut it down if given a chance.

Other recent developments confirm that the GOP is pulling out all the stops.

* Talis Colberg -- the Palin-appointed Attorney General who was directly involved in efforts to pressure the former Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan over Trooper Mike Wooten -- said Tuesday (http://www.adn.com/troopergate/story/528468.html) that ten state employees would not honor subpoenas to testify in the case. Palin, of course, had originally pledged her office's full cooperation in the probe.

* A group of five GOP legislators filed suit (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/gop_legislators_enlist_rightwi.php) -- with the help of a right-wing Texas-based legal foundation -- to stop the investigation in its tracks.

* The McCain campaign officially took charge of the effort, trotting out (http://www.newsweek.com/id/159260) a hard-charging former federal prosecutor, Ed O'Callaghan, as its point-man on the issue.

* And the ADN reported today (http://www.adn.com/troopergate/story/529607.html) that Palin's lawyer, Thomas Van Flein, is no longer being paid for by the state of Alaska, but could not say whether the McCain camp was helping to pay his bills.

But the GOP's hardball tactics could end up doing more harm than good, by adding to the suspicion that Palin has something to hide.

In an editorial (http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/529587.html) published this morning, the ADN accused Palin and McCain of "trying to ignite a partisan firestorm that wipes out the Troopergate investigation until after the election."

And the liberal journalist David Corn observed last night on MSNBC: "In the last few days the Republicans are treating this like its another Watergate and they better shut it down right way."

So: Where do things go from here?

Van Flein told the ADN (http://www.adn.com/troopergate/story/529607.html) that he'd likely decide today whether Todd Palin, who also been subponaed but is not a state employee, will testify, which would occur at a session of the Judiciary Committee tomorrow.

Meanwhile, the band of lawmakers struggling to maintain control of the investigation -- French, Elton, and their supporters in the legislature -- certainly aren't backing down.

Despite saying he might agree to GOP calls to reconvene the legislative council, Elton sent a letter (http://www.adn.com/troopergate/story/529607.html) yesterday to Colberg, the Attorney General, accusing him of going back on an agreement to allow the ten state employees testify. "Bluntly, I feel like Charlie Brown after Lucy moved the football," Elton wrote to Colberg.

Sen. Bill Wielechowski, a Democrat and French ally, told TPMmuckraker: "Hollis French has no intention of buckling under," and said that the same holds true of Elton.

The operation, Wielechowski continued, is "clearly politically driven by the McCain campaign."

"I've never seen an effort like this in this state to kill something," he added. "I don't think this is gonna end quietly."

timvwcom

09-19-2008, 06:41 PM

Looks like the McCain's team has successfully convinced most of Palin's Alaska administration associates to just ignore the subpoenas... Three people (2 state administrative employees and Todd Palin) failed to appear to testify today before the state Senate Judiciary Committee (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26794836/). The Legislature could vote on holding them in contempt, but since they don't reconvene until January, their may be no legal recourse here in the short term. At first glance this would appear to help them with their obvious goal to delay the release of the report until after the elections in November.

HOWEVER, the Investigator in charge has now stated he's going to release his report and findings on October 10th even without these last witnesses and Gov. Palin or her husbands testimony. Don't know how much evidence he has been able to find, or what it shows... but sounds like me might find out in a few weeks unless McCain's troops find some other way to shut it down.

I'll assume that this approach to spike the investigation by the Republicans, after the initial unanimous vote to start it, and the Palins initial vow to cooperate with it... will give some in the public pause as a reminder of the Bush/Cheney method of governance. Her favorable/unfavorable ratings have moved from the best to now the worst among the 4 Prez/VP candidates;

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/failtrackingpoll_3.gif

Sounds like even some Alaskan's might be starting to think this now smells bad?

Palin Under Fire At Home For Trooper-Gate Stonewalling (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/palin_under_fire_at_home_for_t.php)

By Zachary Roth - September 19, 2008, 5:08PM

Over the last eight years, the Bush administration's approach to governing has been characterized by a reflexive penchant for secrecy, a willingness to stonewall legitimate investigations, and an aggressive media relations strategy, which sees the press as just another interest group, rather than as playing an important public function. (http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/01/19/040119fa_fact_auletta?printable=true)

In recent days, the McCain-Palin campaign has doubled down on that same governing style in shutting down the Trooper-Gate investigation.

When Trooper-Gate first broke, Palin pledged full cooperation. But in the last week, the McCain-Palin campaign has brought in a high-powered ex-federal prosecutor and a team of communications experts to all but shut down the probe.

Essentially co-opting the office of state Attorney General (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/troopergates_attorneygeneral_p.php), and working closely with Palin's own lawyer, the GOP operatives -- led by Ed O'Callaghan (http://www.newsweek.com/id/159260), a former terrorism prosecutor with the US Attorney's office in New York, and Megan Stapleton (http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/2008/08/29/local_news/news02.txt), a GOP operative who had worked on Palin's 2006 campaign for governor -- have ensured that many of the key witnesses subpoened in the case, including the Palins themselves, have refused to testify (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/subpoenaed_state_employees_wil.php). (No witnesses showed up (http://www.adn.com/palin/story/531336.html) to a committee hearing today.) At daily press conferences, they've disparaged a respected former public employee (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/16/politics/main4451872.shtml), Walt Monegan, offering an entirely new line (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/troopergate_palins_shifting_st.php) on why Palin fired him. They've made flatly false statements (http://www.ktuu.com/global/story.asp?s=9023109) designed to paint the Democratic legislator overseeing the probe, Hollis French, as having overstepped his authority and as running a partisan witch-hunt. And they've aggressively challenged reporting that they've perceived as unfavorable -- in one case, as we reported yesterday (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/mccain_press_aide_calls_alaska.php), by phoning a reporter at home to complain about an accurate story.

There's little question that despite -- or perhaps because of -- these efforts, the tone of the Trooper-Gate coverage has grown noticeably more negative in the last few days. And Alaska-based commentators and bloggers have reacted with fury in recent days to the McCain-Palin camp's tactics.

In an unusually pointed editorial published yesterday (http://www.adn.com/opinion/view/story/529587.html), the state's most prominent newspaper, the Anchorage Daily News concluded: "Palin and McCain are trying to ignite a partisan firestorm that wipes out the Troopergate investigation until after the election."

And in an opinion piece published Tuesday (http://www.adn.com/opinion/comment/story/528420.html) in the same paper, conservative radio host Dan Fagan -- a frequent Palin critic -- referred to Palin's "transparent delay tactics," and argued that "Americans deserve to know what Palin is trying to hide before we vote her a heartbeat away from the leader of the free world."

Bloggers have been even more critical. One at Alaska Report, a liberal site that has tracked corruption in Alaska state government, wrote yesterday (http://alaskareport.com/news98/x61632_palin_truth_squad.htm): "National political assassins have invaded Alaska. They were visible and in full force at the McCain-Palin press conference yesterday. Alaskans don't roll that way."

And another at Mudflats -- tagline: "Tiptoeing through the muck of Alaskan politics" -- added (http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/todd-palin-refuses-to-testify-shocking-shocking-i-say/): "The damage that this stonewalling has had on Sarah Palin's 'image,' that the out-of-state lawyers and the McCain campaign were trying so fervently to craft, has yet to be measured."

There may be signs that the angry reaction to the GOP tactics has spread beyond opinion writers. Matt Zensey, the ADN's editorial page editor, told TPMmuckraker that letters to the editor had been running at somewhere between 60 and 66 percent anti-Palin in recent days.

"We are not alone among those who are taken aback" by Palin's abrupt transformation from a being an advocate of openness and accountability to stone-walling the investigation at every turn, said Zensey. "People are noticing the disconnect."

Zensey said that the take-no-prisoners tactics of the McCain-Palin PR team are not in keeping with Alaska's tradition of civil political discourse. "The 11-minute tirade that Megan Stapleton launched against Walt Monegan is something that was unfamiliar to a lot of Alaskans."

Zensey added: "The politics of personal destruction have come to Alaska."

Still, what ultimately matters is whether the dissatisfaction with Palin's about-face on Trooper-Gate filters into the broader narrative of the presidential campaign. Already, though, Democrats may being taking comfort in the fact that, in recent days, her national approval ratings appear to have slipped noticeably. (http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/19/11359/9896/418/603674)

hutash

09-20-2008, 10:46 AM

I love how the dems are giving Phalin all the rope to wants to hang herself with. They have not been making a big deal of this nationally yet, are just letting it play out for awhile. Once she and her team back themselves deep into a corner they will hit it hard, and it will be much more effective closer to the election. Who will want to vote for someone involved in a cover up?

timvwcom

10-03-2008, 02:11 AM

Developments today (Thursday) on "troopergate"...

The lawsuit brought by the Republicans to have the Legislature's investigation stopped has been dismissed by an Alaskan judge... this includes his refusal to to throw out subpoenas for members of Sarah Palin's administration. Two stories to cover the events;

Judge refuses to halt Troopergate probe (http://www.adn.com/palin/story/543892.html)
By SEAN COCKERHAM / scockerham@adn.com
Published: October 2nd, 2008 05:56 PM
Last Modified: October 2nd, 2008 05:57 PM

An Anchorage judge today refused to halt the Legislature's investigation of Gov. Sarah Palin and denied the state attorney general's attempt to throw out legislative subpoenas.

Superior Court Judge Peter Michalski heard arguments from both sides this morning and ruled just before 5 p.m. this afternoon.

"I think it's great. It's a big day for the state of Alaska," said Peter Maassen, the lawyer representing the Legislative Council, which ordered the investigation.

Maassen said he expected the other side to attempt a last-minute appeal to the state Supreme Court.

It's last-minute because the investigator hired by the Legislative Council, Steve Branchflower, is to present his report in a week. Branchflower is looking into Palin's dismissal of her public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, and whether she improperly pressured him to fire a state trooper divorced from her sister. There is intense national interest in the outcome now that Palin is the Republican nominee for vice president.

Alaska Attorney General Talis Colberg said he didn't know whether he'd appeal or if he'll now advise the subpoenaed state officals to cooperate with the investigation. He said he needed to consult with them.

"I'm going to talk to the clients before I talk to you," he said.

Five Republican state legislators sued to stop the investigation, and Colberg, a Palin appointee, asked the judge to throw out the legislative subpoenas. The governor's husband, Todd, and nearly a dozen state officials have refused to honor the subpoeanas ordering them to testify, and they face the threat of possible jail time.

Thomas Van Flein, the Anchorage attorney representing both Todd and Sarah Palin, watched the court hearing today. He said in an interview afterward that, if the judge refused to throw out the subpoenas, he would expect Todd Palin to testify after all.

"Short of appeal to the Alaska Supreme Court, which no one has talked about, I don't see why we wouldn't just have Todd testify," he said.

Anchorage Democratic Sen. Hollis French, who is overseeing the investigation, said he would let Branchflower decide how to deal with potential testimony from anyone who previously defied the subpoenas but now wants to cooperate.

...

Subpoenas upheld in Palin trooper investigation (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/palin.trooper.investigation/index.html)

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (CNN) -- An Alaska judge refused Thursday to throw out subpoenas for members of Gov. Sarah Palin's administration in the State Legislature's investigation of her firing of her public safety commissioner.
Gov. Sarah Palin's campaign has said the investigation is tainted by partisan politics.

Gov. Sarah Palin's campaign has said the investigation is tainted by partisan politics.

Anchorage Superior Court Judge Peter Michalski rejected a request by Palin's Republican allies to shut down the investigation and ruled that the subpoenas were issued properly by the state Senate Judiciary Committee.

...

I'll believe that Todd Palin will cooperate in a timely manner when it happens... the state employees I have a little hope for. If they think McCain/Palin have a chance to lose the election, they might have some fear they would be found in contempt by the Alaska Legislature when it reconvenes in January. Also kinda assume the Republicans will try other methods to delay this until after the election, maybe slow walking new testimony from these people?

Toadman

10-03-2008, 05:58 PM

Time to issue some arrest warrants. Poor Todd Palin can't go home. He'd get served and his ass thrown in jail for contempt. Why is this not bigger news. Fricking right wing biased media. Do your job bitches!

timvwcom

10-04-2008, 01:05 AM

Well... the Republicans haven't given up yet;

(Alaska) Supreme Court to hear Troopergate appeal (http://www.adn.com/palin/story/545140.html)

By SEAN COCKERHAM | scockerham@adn.com
Published: October 3rd, 2008 06:00 PM
Last Modified: October 3rd, 2008 06:01 PM

The Alaska Supreme Court has agreed to hear an emergency appeal from lawyers seeking to shut down the Legislature's Troopergate investigation of Gov. Sarah Palin.

The action comes the day after Anchorage Superior Court Judge Peter Michalski threw out their lawsuit attempting to halt the Legislature's investigation of what's known as Troopergate. The suit was filed on behalf of a group of Republican state legislators who oppose the investigation.

In a written order issued about 4:30 p.m. today, the Supreme Court said it would hear oral arguments on the appeal at 3 p.m. Wednesday, and agreed to rule by the end of the next Thursday.

The urgency on timing is because Steve Branchflower, the investigator hired by the Legislative Council, is set to release his report next Friday. Branchflower is looking into Palin's dismissal of her public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, and whether she improperly pressured him to fire a state trooper divorced from her sister.

Texas-based Liberty Legal Institute and Anchorage attorney Kevin Clarkson, representing the group of anti-investigation legislators, filed the emergency appeal.

"The plaintiffs and Alaskans will suffer irreparable harm if the investigation at issue continues and if the resulting investigative report issues as planned on Oct. 10, 2008," they wrote in their appeal.

The lawyers argued that allowing the investigation to proceed would threaten the right under the Alaska Constitution to a "fair and just" investigation by the Legislature. They also argued the Legislative Council overstepped its authority in investigating.

The state legislators whose names appear on the appeal are Wes Keller, Mike Kelly, Fred Dyson, Tom Wagoner, Carl Gatto and Bob Lynn.

Judge Michalski, in dismissing their lawsuit Thursday, ruled the conduct of the Legislature's investigation did not violate the right to fairness.

He found much of the argument against the investigation is not for the courts to decide but is rather "business to be left to the legislative branch."

The judge Thursday also threw out the argument of Alaska Attorney General Talis Colberg, a Palin appointee attempting to quash subpoenas ordering state officials to testify in the investigation.

The attorney general's office has not joined the appeal to the state Supreme Court. Palin spokeswoman Sharon Leighow said Colberg would not be saying what his next move would be until he has a chance to discuss it with the subpoenaed state officials.

timvwcom

10-08-2008, 07:58 PM

Getting close now!

The Alaska Supreme court heard arguments today in the Republican appeal to shut down the investigatioin. The court is saying it will rule quickly (http://www.adn.com/palin/story/550099.html) on the matter. "In court today, an attorney for five Republican lawmakers said the probe is a front for politicians trying to embarrass Palin."

Assuming the Supreme's don't shut it down, the report itself would likely be sent to the Legislature on Friday morning at 9 AM. No idea how quickly, or even if, they'll comment or release the report itself???

'Troopergate' report set for Friday, despite Palin resistance (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53632.html)

By Wesley Loy | Anchorage Daily News

With his "troopergate" report due Friday, legislative investigator Steve Branchflower appears to have the makings of a fairly complete account, despite weeks of resistance from the Palin family and administration.

Branchflower has, or soon will have, answers from nearly all the people he'd hoped to question regarding Gov. Sarah Palin's firing in July of former Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan.

Some of the final witnesses include seven state employees, including the governor's chief of staff, who lost a court fight to kill subpoenas Branchflower obtained through the Alaska Senate Judiciary Committee to compel their testimony.

The seven this week are answering a list of questions known as interrogatories. The answers are submitted under oath.

Another key witness, Todd Palin, the governor's husband, also is answering a list of questions in writing, and has a deadline of today to turn them in.

A legislative panel has scheduled a meeting for 9 a.m. Friday to receive Branchflower's report on Monegan's firing and whether Palin or members of her administration abused their powers in pushing for the dismissal of a state trooper involved in a child-custody fight with the governor's sister.

The legislative inquiry into the so-called troopergate affair has gathered huge national interest because of Palin's run for the vice presidency, and because of campaign charges that biased Democrats in the Legislature have manipulated the investigation to damage the McCain-Palin ticket.

When they launched the troopergate probe on July 28, about a month before John McCain chose Palin as his vice presidential running mate, legislators designated state Sen. Hollis French, an Anchorage Democrat and Judiciary Committee chairman, as director of the Branchflower investigation.

French said Tuesday that Branchflower, a retired state prosecutor, is working as fast as possible to finish his questioning and draft his report.

Whether in person or in writing, Branchflower has been able to interview nearly all the witnesses he wanted to question regarding whatever they might know about events surrounding Monegan's firing.

The big exception is the governor herself, who had said initially she would cooperate but has since resisted. Legislators decided against hitting the governor with a subpoena, saying they wanted to "de-escalate" tensions between her and the Legislature.

"We tried to schedule a statement from her but it never worked out," French said.

By Friday, Branchflower is expected to have heard from at least 15 witnesses, including Mike Nizich, Palin's chief of staff, and Annette Kreitzer, Palin's commissioner of administration. He's also gathering e-mail and other documents.

French said Branchflower will have to speak for himself as to whether he was able to gather enough witness cooperation and facts to prepare a proper report.

"That's a question that's going to have to get answered Friday," French said. "I've been pretty careful not to peer over his shoulder. He's a very experienced investigator."

...

splat

10-08-2008, 08:05 PM

How many Palin appointees on that bench?

timvwcom

10-08-2008, 08:15 PM

How many Palin appointees on that bench?

I'm not certain... but I did read (though not post here) an article last week saying that there was near agreement by those who follow such things that the Alaska Supreme Court only took the case to set a precedent regards the Legislature being the proper venue to review/abort the Legislature's own investigations, NOT the courts.

timvwcom

10-09-2008, 01:19 AM

Toadman

10-09-2008, 11:40 AM

Huh... somehow the AP ends up with a copy of Todd Palins 52-page affidavit to the "Troopergate" investigation. Wonder how that happened? :rolleyes2

Todd Palin: Contacts with wife's staff were proper (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_el_pr/palin_troopergate)

Yep, sweet, little cutesey, wootsey Palin had no idea that her husband was running around trying to get Wooten fired. :rolleyes:

This won't play out until after the election.

timvwcom

10-09-2008, 12:10 PM

Yep, sweet, little cutesey, wootsey Palin had no idea that her husband was running around trying to get Wooten fired. :rolleyes:

This won't play out until after the election.

Sounds like his statement includes some new information (http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/550229.html) on why Palin could have wanted her top cop fired;

In his statement, Palin is unapologetic about his efforts to get Wooten fired, but he says he doesn't think those efforts had anything to do with Monegan's dismissal. He said his understanding is that Monegan lost his job due to a "dispute with the governor and her staff over budget issues and failure to fill trooper vacancies."

He also suggested there was bad blood between the governor and Monegan over two other matters:

• An inquiry from Monegan to the governor about whether she once failed to put her Trig, her infant, in a car seat while she was driving.

• The unavailability of a state trooper airplane for the governor's use when traveling to the Bush.

On the car seat, Monegan sent an e-mail to the governor on June 30, 12 days before he lost his job, that said: "Via a soon-to-be-retiring legislator, we received a complaint that had you driving with Trig not in an approved car seat; if this is so that would be awkward in many ways."

The governor fired back from her private e-mail account: "I've never driven Trig anywhere without a new, approved car seat. I want to know who said otherwise -- pls provide me that info now."

Todd Palin, in his sworn statement, said this was a "false rumor," and that the governor was a passenger in a truck, "on a private farm road without traffic at low speed."

On the trooper airplane, "It seemed that whenever Sarah needed this plane, it was unavailable," Todd Palin said. "We were concerned that the Department of Public Safety was retaliating against Sarah for selling the Murkowski jet that Department of Public Safety officials enjoyed using." In 2007, the governor sold a jet her predecessor, Frank Murkowski, bought in a controversial defiance of the Legislature.

So Sarah Palin was pissed that she had been tattled on for not using a car seat for her baby & after all the bragging about putting the Governor's plane on Ebay, she was just always trying to use the state troopers plane instead??? :the_finge :rolleyes2 :nonono2:

An article on the Alaska Supreme Court session later yesterday for those interested; http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/550352.html

I think it's 99% likely that the report goes to the Legislature tomorrow (Friday), when they comment or it gets released I'm not sure.

Edit: We've not seen anything below mid 40's yet here... but love seeing pics like this on the adn.com site;

http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/10/07/23/212-3976126.highlight.prod_affiliate.7.jpg
Vehicles on the Parks Highway drive through an early season snow storm Oct. 7, 2008.

wendigo

10-09-2008, 04:09 PM

State Supreme Court will not block inquiry ADN Arcticle (http://www.adn.com/palin/story/550940.html)

Whether they release the report to the public tomorrow is unknown. Will have to contact the state reps and request that it is released.

Oh, it is still snowing.

Benny Profane

10-09-2008, 08:42 PM

A nice up to date with pics:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/us/10trooper.html?hp

timvwcom

10-09-2008, 10:11 PM

A nice up to date with pics:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/us/10trooper.html?hp

Thank you Benny!

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/10/09/us/09trooper-600.jpg

Reading the article it's clear the Palins hounded Commissioner Monegan about the ex-BIL... with Sarah, Todd or her staff contacting him or his aides a total of THREE DOZEN times over 19 months.

My Pet Powder Goat

10-09-2008, 10:38 PM

I just read that Article. Even I didnt know that the supposed "insabordination" due 2 his trip 2 DC was ACTUALLY aproved by the governors office...liar,liar pants on fire

timvwcom

10-10-2008, 01:05 PM

Still in their secret meeting in Alaska... wonder where and when this goes?

http://www.adn.com/news/story/551898.html

wendigo

10-10-2008, 06:20 PM

http://tinyurl.com/4k3bs3
12-0 vote to release the report (minus some confidential stuff) to the public.
No word of what it says yet.

Jer

10-10-2008, 06:22 PM

Does anybody beside the 1 % far-left hate-filled freakshows even care about this stuff anymore??

wendigo

10-10-2008, 06:27 PM

Umm yeah, most of Alaska is interested and Alaska is generally thought of as being way to the right.

Edit: They say she violated the state's executive branch ethics act.

RaccoonFace

10-10-2008, 06:30 PM

Report released:

Palin unlawfully fired Walter Monigan! Sarah Palin broke state law. At least she didn't lie about it.

okbye

Adolf Allerbush

10-10-2008, 07:02 PM

Does anybody beside the 1 % far-left hate-filled freakshows even care about this stuff anymore??

Jer, while I think this happens a lot but we rarely hear about it...I still think it has relevance to the election.

MTT

10-10-2008, 07:27 PM

Adolf Allerbush

10-10-2008, 08:04 PM

I am just going to quote myself.

Told ya so!

Who cares.

ITS OVER!

Just to correct you on your misunderstanding of the situation...liberals are not defending the trooper. A bipartisan panel found Palin guilty of firing the trooper for, at least in part, personal reasons. If you don't like the outcome of the investigation that's fine...just own up to it then. You're posts are useless. No need to go on quoting yourself or posting for that matter.

Tippster

10-10-2008, 08:15 PM

Just to correct you on your misunderstanding of the situation...liberals are not defending the trooper. A bipartisan panel LED BY REPUBLICANS found Palin guilty of firing the trooper for, at least in part, personal reasons...Fixed to point out... You know... the party that loves her in Alaska.

MTT

10-10-2008, 08:19 PM

Just to correct you on your misunderstanding of the situation...liberals are not defending the trooper. A bipartisan panel found Palin guilty of firing the trooper for, at least in part, personal reasons. If you don't like the outcome of the investigation that's fine...just own up to it then. You're posts are useless. No need to go on quoting yourself or posting for that matter.

The Trooper is still a trooper. She FIRED the Top Cop

Blurred

10-10-2008, 08:27 PM

WHO

GIVES

A

FUCK?!!!

Adolf Allerbush

10-10-2008, 08:33 PM

The Trooper is still a trooper. She FIRED the Top Cop

So the Top Cop was not part of the police force, a.k.a. the troopers? Interesting.

David Witherspoon

10-10-2008, 09:31 PM

At least she didn't lie about it.
Have faith! Give 'er a day or two.

MTT

10-10-2008, 10:13 PM

That was news to me.

Turns out she actualy hired him when she become Govenor.

Then 7 days after taking office he was talking to Todd Palin about the X-Brother inlaw.

My Pet Powder Goat

10-10-2008, 11:00 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/us/politics/11trooper.html?exprod=myyahoo
My favorite is Her having Todd run around doing her dirty work. what a bunch of cronies.

timvwcom

10-10-2008, 11:08 PM

To Jer and Blurred ^^^; I care... and we'll see by the news coverage and the public's interest in the next days who else is. The final result would come in how it affects poll numbers I suppose.

I'll add this in to keep the "detail rich" vibe of this thread going...

Troopergate report: Palin abused power (http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/552393.html)

By DON HUNTER, SEAN COCKERHAM and WESLEY LOY
Anchorage Daily News

Published: October 10th, 2008 08:34 PM
Last Modified: October 10th, 2008 08:34 PM

A legislative investigation has concluded that Gov. Sarah Palin abused her power in pushing for the firing of an Alaska state trooper who was once married to her sister, or by failing to prevent her husband Todd from doing so.

The report by investigator Steve Branchflower was made public late this afternoon by a bipartisan 12-0 vote of the Legislative Council, which authorized the investigation.

Branchflower's report contains four findings. The first concludes that Palin violated the state's executive branch ethics act, which says that "each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust."

Branchflower was investigating Palin's involvement in an effort to get state trooper Mike Wooten fired. Wooten was involved in a nasty divorce from Palin's sister. Palin and her husband, Todd, have accused Wooten of threatening Palin's father.

The investigation also looked into whether Palin dismissed public safety commissioner Walt Monegan because he resisted pressure to fire Wooten.

The report says Palin failed to reign in her husband's inappropriate efforts to use the governor's office to contact trooper employees in his attempts to have Wooten fired.

"Governor Palin knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to advance a personal agenda ... to get Trooper Michael Wooten fired," Branchflower's report says.

"Compliance with the code of ethics is not optional. It is an individual responsibility imposed by law, and any effort to benefit a personal interest through official action is a violation of that trust. ... The term ‘benefit' is very broadly defined, and includes anything that is to the person's advantage or personal self-interest."

In the second finding, Branchflower says Monegan's refusal to fire Wooten was not the sole reason for his dismissal but that it was a "contributing factor." Still, he said, Palin's firing of Monegan was "a proper and lawful exercise" of the governor's authority.

The third finding says a workers compensation claim filed by Wooten was handled appropriately. Number four concludes that the attorney general's office failed to comply with Branchflower's Aug. 6 request for information about the case in the form of e-mails.

Branchflower writes that his investigation did not take into account late-arriving statements from several administration officials who, on the advice of Attorney General Talis Colberg, resisted subpoenas. They agreed to provide written statements this week, however, after a state judge upheld the subpoenas. Information from those statements was provided to the Legislative Council separately.

...

(replies by both McCain/Palin campaign and the attorney for the 5 Republican Legislators who tried to axe the investigation available at the link)

...

My Pet Powder Goat

10-10-2008, 11:17 PM

Palin camp is stating-incesintly- they never "pressured" anyone. WTF do U call contacting someone 3 DOZEN times in 19 months? Thats more times then "Dave" from DirectTv calls me

timvwcom

10-10-2008, 11:53 PM

Was just listening to BBC Radio in the car on the run to pick up my son from the bus after a night at "Fright Fest"... The Palin story lead all the news.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/1690465303_a7090a54af.jpg?v=0

hutash

10-11-2008, 10:50 AM

So, from what I can gather, Palin can fire him any time she wants (it is like at will employment here in California, you can be fired for any or no reason other then race, age, religion, et cetera), so she gets a pass on the firing. But she pressured him and had here staff, hubby pressure him to fire Wooten, which is an ethical breach of duty. Now the question is what is the significance of such a breach of duty?

My guess is nothing will become of all this, but it is nice to she what a conniving, unethical bitch she really is. It will likely wake up a lot of Alaskans to just what they elected, and since it is appearing less likely she will get elected as VP, she is going to have to go back to Alaska and face the increasingly angry mob.

Edit to add an answer to Blurred's question. I care, and so should you. This woman has the potential to be VP, and ultimately president. It is rather important to see how she deals with issues, IMO.

Jer

10-11-2008, 10:53 AM

This thing and the Ayers non-story are really just fascinating to people who have lives.

Meadow Skipper

10-12-2008, 01:57 PM

At least she didn't lie about it.
Have faith! Give 'er a day or two.
Feeling kind of prescient, are you?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/12/politics/main4516113.shtml

Alaska Governor Sarah Palin said Saturday that the report actually cleared her of any "legal wrongdoing or unethical activity."

Someone's got a reading comprehension problem - either her or me - because I read that the commission report stated she had acted unethically.

timvwcom

10-12-2008, 02:25 PM

For anyone who remains confused at all... I'll simplify it a bit;

-Regards trying to get the ex-brother-in-law (Trooper Wooten) fired: Broke state laws on ethics. Specifically;

...However, the report found that Palin, her husband Todd, and her subordinates used pressure and intimidation to try to force the firing of Michael Wooten, beginning before her swearing-in ceremony took place, and therefore broke the law.

The investigation said she violated Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act, which states, "… each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust." ...

-For actually firing the Alaska Public safety commission (Monegan): Acted within powers granted to Alaska Governor. Specifically;

The report affirmed that, as governor, she had the constitutional right to hire and fire at will, and therefore her termination of Monegan was lawful.

Though investigator believed that Monegan's refusal to fire the ex-brother-in-law was likely a contributing factor in Palins decision to fire him.

David Witherspoon

10-12-2008, 03:29 PM

Feeling kind of prescient, are you?
It's a curse. Cassandra's.

timvwcom

10-14-2008, 01:06 AM

This was some interesting thoughts about the Troopergate issue... In this case taken straight from Daily Kos... sorry, I didn't review all the docs and compose this post from my own inquiry's; (a super long post, sorry)

Some Unanswered Troopergate Questions
by Kagro X
Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 01:58:13 PM PDT

Here are some unanswered -- and some of these were literally asked and left unanswered -- questions from the Branchflower Report that I think are... interesting.

1. In an interview with John Glass, then Wasilla's Chief of Police, investigator Steven Branchflower discovers that Todd Palin called the Chief just one day after Sarah had won the gubernatorial election, to ensure that Trooper Wooten never be considered for a job on Wasilla's municipal force. The unanswered question:

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: Now, did the question ever come up about how Todd Palin even knew that Mike Wooten had applied for a position with the Wasilla Police Department?

MR. GLASS: I did not ask him that.

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: Do you have any knowledge about how he
knew that?

MR. GLASS: I do not know. I have no personal knowledge of that.

Yeah. How did Palin know Wooten had applied?

2. From Branchflower's interview with Monegan, regarding his conversation with Todd Palin in January 2007, in which Monegan delivers the news that his examination of the Wooten disciplinary action has turned up no new issues that would permit Wooten's firing:

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: And about how long did this conversation last?

MR. MONEGAN: Oh, probably, I don't know, maybe five, ten minutes. I was trying to give him examples. And I even pointed out to him that if any of these acts were so heinous, then perhaps they should have been reported at the time they actually occurred and not be delayed for about a year or so, until such time as they were going through a divorce, and then these issues were brought up.

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: And did he have an answer for that question?

MR. MONEGAN: Not really. I mean, except that he had more frustration and -- but I tried to assure him that all complaints, no matt er what and who they're from, will be investigated and should be investigated. And I wasn't trying to dodge a complaint, but I got to let him know that that was my perception.

Yeah. Why didn't the Palins report these things when they happened?

3. From Monegan's testimony regarding the propriety of continue inquiries from the Palin's about Wooten:

Walt Monegan testified he felt that both Todd and Sarah Palin "should have
known better" than to discuss the Wooten matter with him:

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: Now, in your dealings with Todd Palin, are you aware of his occupation and whether he was involved with the union or is a union member?

MR. MONEGAN: I believe someone once told me that Todd Palin was a shop steward in his union.

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: And Michael Wooten is a member, and at all times that are material to our deposition this afternoon, he was a member of the Public Safety Employees Association, correct?

MR. MONEGAN: Yes. That's the union.

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: Now, did it ever occur to you to wonder -- when you told Mr. Palin that the matter had been investigated, that discipline had been imposed and the matter was imposed, did it ever occur to you to ask him, or did you consider asking him something along the lines: Look, you're a union person. You know what the union procedures are, generally speaking, that once the discipline has been imposed, the matter is closed. Did that topic ever come up in your conversation with Todd Palin?

MR. MONEGAN: No. I thought it, but I didn't discuss it. I thought that he should have known better. And I certainly thought the governor should have known better, as the mayor of Wasilla, handling personnel issues, as well.

Yeah. Why didn't Todd Palin know better, if he was a shop steward? And Sarah, with all her "executive experience?"

4. From Monegan's discussion with Branchflower of Todd Palin's stalking of Wooten on his snow machine ride, which Palin incorrectly believed was evidence of Wooten's cheating on his worker's comp claims:

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: And I' m going to go back to this photograph. Did Mr. Palin tell you that this was sort of a chance meeting out in the wilderness somewhere, or what?

MR. MONEGAN: You know, he just told me that he saw him out there. I didn't -- I didn't get the why he was out there, why out of all the directions or all the trails that they could have gone, why they were on the same one. I didn' t --

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: And the location of where this meeting occurred, did you get an impression from Mr. Palin where it occurred? Was it close to town or out (indiscernible) somewhere?

MR. MONEGAN: No. He said about 100 miles out of town. So it's a long trip, a long snowmobile ride.

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: And did the question come up about how it was that he had a camera and just happened to run into Mike Wooten?

MR. MONEGAN: Not by --

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: Did any of that come up?

MR. MONEGAN: No. Not with me.

Yeah. What was Todd doing 100 miles out of town, just coincidentally on the same trail as Wooten? And how did he happen to be armed with a camera?

5. From Monegan's discussion of a call from the governor's office, wanting Wooten removed from the role of wearing the "Safety Bear" costume at the State Fair, because Palin would be visiting. (No, I shit you not.)

MR. MONEGAN: Well, Trooper Wooten, on light duty, had signed up for an overtime detail to work at the state fair in the costume of Safety Bear. And it's a -- it's a costume, much like a mascot kind of thing. He was going to be escorted around, walk the fair grounds, but mostly around the area of the trooper recruiting booth, and meeting kids, talking to them, that kind of stuff. And so he wouldn't have been recognizable inside a costume. But obviously the governor's office was aware that he was going to be there, and they were -- they did not want Wooten to be there.

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: And did you learn from Kris Perry, or anyone for that matter, how they knew that --

MR. MONEGAN: No. I --

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: -- Trooper Wooten was going to be there?

MR. MONEGAN: I figured they had spies, honestly.

Yeah. How did Palin know Wooten was going to be in that costume? And who would care even if he was?

6. Yet another complaint call from Todd:

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: Okay. Now, did there come a time after the kids returned to school that you received yet another call from Todd Palin?

MR. MONEGAN : Yeah. I believe this one was directly to [Alaska State Troopers Colonel] Audie Holloway.

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: Okay. Tell us about that.

MR. MONEGAN: Because Audie briefed me on it. And he said that Todd had called basically to say that Trooper Wooten was seen dropping off one of the kids -- or one of his kids at a school in a patrol car and the time -- and the date, and the time was 8:01, which I thought was unusual, because most people wouldn't note the exact minute of something that they're watching. Which kind of either told me it was somebody who was used to it, like a PI, or --

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: A person -- a --

MR. MONEGAN: A private investigator.

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: -- private investigator?

MR. MONEGAN: Or somebody who just wanted to try to document things as tightly as possible.

Yeah. What is with the 8:01 business? And were the Palins using a PI to hound Wooten? Were they tailing him themselves? Who are these creeps?

(And by the way, it all checked out. Wooten had asked for and received special permission to drop the kids off in his patrol car beforehand. But apparently this possibility escaped Sherlock Palin, who didn't bother to check, and instead went crying immediately to Holloway.)

7. Monegan's recounting of his conversation with Alaksa Attorney General Talis Colberg, after Monegan reminds Colberg (as he had already reminded Todd, Sarah, Sarah's Chief of Staff Mike Tibbles and Department of Administration Commissioner Annette Kreitzer) that discussing the Wooten case in this manner creates liability both for the state and for them individually, and Colberg agrees that Monegan is correct:

[MR. MONEGAN:] Well, then would you tell the boss -- it' s only going to spill out. The more people get involved in this, the more people are going to -- the more the chance this is going to come on out in the public. And he said, okay, I'll talk to them.

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: I'll talk to "them," plural?

MR. MONEGAN: Yeah.

MR. BRANCHFLOWER: Did he tell you who he had been talking to earlier before calling you?

MR. MONEGAN: No. Nor did I ask.

Yeah. Just who did he mean by "them?"

Just a few of the unanswered questions raised by the Branchflower report. Wouldn't we like to know the answers to some of them? What kind of picture does this paint of the Palins, who obviously govern as a unit?

timvwcom

10-14-2008, 11:59 PM

Since no one else will post this (I've been waiting a day)... I will.

The "troopergate" issue far from done. The second part of the investigation that Palin herself requested from the Personnel Board (which she has hire/fire control of) appears to have gone off the reservation (sincere apologies to my original American friends here).

They have expanded the probe to include several other ethic complaints, though not all is known by the public/press at this time;

Here is the latest;

Board's Troopergate probe casts wider net (http://www.adn.com/front/story/555288.html)

ETHICS: Investigator hasn't said who else may be under scrutiny.

By TOM KIZZIA
tkizzia@adn.com

Published: October 13th, 2008 11:08 PM
Last Modified: October 13th, 2008 10:58 AM

The state Personnel Board investigation of Gov. Sarah Palin's firing of Walt Monegan has broadened to include other ethics complaints against the governor and examination of actions by other state employees, according to the independent counsel handling the case.

The investigator, Tim Petumenos, did not say who else is under scrutiny. But in two recent letters describing his inquiry, he cited the consolidation of complaints and the involvement of other officials as a reason for not going along with Palin's request to make the examination of her activities more public.

Two other ethics complaints involving Palin are known. One, by activist Andree McLeod, alleges that state hiring practices were circumvented for a Palin supporter. The case is not related to Monegan's firing. The other, by the Public Safety Employees Association, alleges that trooper Mike Wooten's personnel file was illegally breached by state officials.

John Cyr, the PSEA executive director, said Monday the union plans to amend its complaint to be sure the board investigates "harassment" of Wooten as well.

Petumenos has not spoken to the press, in keeping with the secrecy of the state process. But he gave a rough description of the investigation's course in two letters to an Anchorage attorney threatening a lawsuit over Palin's effort to waive confidentiality.

Attention is turning this week to the Personnel Board -- the state's official avenue for investigating ethics complaints -- after release of the Legislature's Troopergate investigation last Friday. The Legislature's investigator concluded that Palin was within her rights to fire Monegan as public safety commissioner, but abused her power and broke the ethics law in joining her husband to push for the firing of Wooten, who was once married to the governor's sister.

Palin reversed an earlier pledge and refused to cooperate with the Legislature's investigation, calling it politically biased. In an unusual twist, she filed the ethics complaint against herself before the board, saying she hoped to "clear the air" by an inquiry through proper channels. She asked the board to decide if she broke ethics laws or acted improperly in dismissing Monegan or in dealing with Wooten -- basically the same ground Branchflower covered.

Petumenos has requested a copy of Friday's legislative report, including confidential backup material, said Sen. Kim Elton, D-Juneau, chairman of the Legislative Council. Elton said the council will meet Thursday to vote on whether to give Petumenos all the material gathered by its investigator, Steve Branchflower.

Petumenos was hired by the Personnel Board to handle the case because the state attorney general's office, which normally investigates ethics charges, would have a conflict investigating the governor.

Under the state's inscrutable system for investigating official ethics complaints, there's no way to tell how long Petumenos' investigation might take. The Personnel Board, made up of three gubernatorial appointees, has meetings scheduled for Oct. 20 and Nov. 3. Agendas for those meetings mention confidential ethics matters to be handled in executive session.

Nor is there any certainty, if the complaints are settled or dismissed, that the results of the investigation will ever be made public. A review of recent Personnel Board cases, however, suggests it's likely most information will eventually be released.

...