McCain's Speech

[str8line]

I like him. I fucking despise Bush, and Sarah Palin pretty much makes me sick already. But I kind of like McCain. He does make me nervous with his temper, but I like his somewhat centrist stance on the issues and willingness to go against his party at times. As a dyed in the wool Bush hater and someone who has had so much angst due to Bush and the Republicans, am I nuts for thinking this way?


Although I AM getting a little sleepy listening to him. I want to see him explode and show some of that wrestler's energy.

[Summit]

Much better speaker than Bush. Not as good of a speaker as Obama.

[montanaskier]

he is the worse speaker of the bunch I think. Just awful. Palin killed him just from a speaking standpoint.

[axebiker]

I think the guy can be counted on to do what he says he will - whether you're for or against it.

[flatlander#2]

I have been Dem all the way, but was going to vote for McCain this year. Then he went and picked Dan Quayle version 2.0. I found that to be too pandering for me. Not the best person, the best demographic person.

Now I don't know who to vote for.

[montanaskier]

not so much, if the Dems still control congress, we'll have 4 more years of doing absolutely NOTHING.

[Blurred]

I like him. I fucking despise Bush, and Sarah Palin pretty much makes me sick already. But I kind of like McCain. He does make me nervous with his temper, but I like his somewhat centrist stance on the issues and willingness to go against his party at times. As a dyed in the wool Bush hater and someone who has had so much angst due to Bush and the Republicans, am I nuts for thinking this way?


Although I AM getting a little sleepy listening to him. I want to see him explode and show some of that wrestlers energy.

Nice post Gordy.

Both candidates are great.

[enlosandes]

The whole raw raw raw thing is a little much for me personally.

[Summit]

The whole raw raw raw thing is a little much for me personally.

Because the Dems didn't do it too? It's a convention speech... it makes everyone puky except the diehards (who are the crowd).


not so much, if the Dems still control congress, we'll have 4 more years of doing absolutely NOTHING.

When they do NOTHING, it slows down the speed at which they take away your rights...

[Brocktoon]

I thought Palin lit it up last night. I like her. I think McCain is pumping standard fare and clearing the bar.

Cindy McCain made me fucking puke. I understand they had to put her out there to talk, but they should have cut her time by 80%.

[axebiker]

The whole raw raw raw thing is a little much for me personally.

True. Glad Denver was SOOOOO subtle. But yeah, it gets a bit contrived. Propaganda from both sides.

[montanaskier]

propaganda indeed. Again, not saying any specifics about anything. Just rhetoric from both dudes. I still pick Obama....I'm a Bama fan after all and Obama can easily be gObama!!!!!

[AKA]

Watching this makes me squirm.

[MTT]

Veto all bills with big pork= Good but really?
Some kind of health care incentive=m But what exactly? I think he means to pass a law that makes health plans protable?

Help dispalced workers find Jobs. Govenment funded Retraining ? That does not sound like government getting out of our way?

Education same as Bush but I like the concept

Expantion of education credits? I don't have any kids in School but it sounds good, but hey is he not more for State control?

OK Energy! Whats he want to do?

DRILL DRILL DRILL Yep Then what

More Nuclear GOOD
How does he encourage private utilities to spend on infrastructure for CLEAN energy?

The government does not create or sell Power to its citizens. How does John McCain get Wind built? Get the power grid updated to handle diverse multiple sources.

Have we had enough off the World to get this done?

When is the Federal government going to start creating a 21st Century Transportation infrastructure? No one seem to talk about that

[EarlyWood]

Cindy McCain made me fucking puke.

Bill Frist

[ANON-505]

he's busy lying to everyone right now. spins and bullshit. i hate these people.

[Cliff Huckable]

Both parties do it and it makes me ill: illustrating bullshit with ridiculous little stories about people they've met...

..like Bob Davis, a pipefitter from NotTooObviousTown, SwingState. Bob has a big family or someother thing key demographics can relate to...or Token Immigrant from AllAmericaTown, who pursues happiness in the world's greatest country just like real Americans...or Inevitable MilitaryPerson, he or she does some kind of gruntwork and never complains and all the while he or she is keeping the world secure by fighting terror and has inevitably volunteered to go back to Iraq...

[str8line]

DRILL BABY DRILL!!!

[montanaskier]

FEAR....FEAR....FEAR.....FEAR

[timvwcom]

McCain WILL be a 3rd Bush Presidency...

How long IS this speech??? :rolleyes2

[str8line]

I just can't see McCain sitting down with Putin and making peace. Blowing each other up? Maybe.

Putin will fuck this world beyond imagination. He IS the devil.

[axebiker]

FEAR....FEAR....FEAR.....FEAR

Wha...?? Al Gore hasn't spoken tonight. :confused:

[nutcase]

I know McCain wants to drill everywhere - but he better stay the hell away from my ass.

[axebiker]

McCain WILL be a 3rd Bush Presidency...

How long IS this speech??? :rolleyes2

Hopefully not as long as Barry's. At least JM has a story to tell.

[Brocktoon]

OK Energy! Whats he want to do?

We'll drill now!

There you have it.

His fake smiles make me cringe, but I write it off to side effects from being fucked up in the shit.

[MTT]

I am still leaning towards McCain But Did you hear Obama on Orilley Factor this evening?

I still don't really trust Obahma but he is sharp

McCain needs to stop bahing Obahma and keep talking avbout what he will do?

[Summit]

What was his daring ten year plan? I missed that... I dozed off...

I sincerely hope that McCain will hold true to a promise of accountability and transparency because those two things were clearly considered weaknesses and evils by the current administration.

[montanaskier]

I had no idea McCain was a POW....that changes everything.

[MTT]

OK for the 10ZEEELLIONTH time today. We get to hear his war story. I am getting weary of this. I am actualy a member of the Vote McCain web site. I'm going to turn him off now and watch Law and Orger. I will send an E-Mail to the site explaining that beating this drum to MUCH TO OFTEN is sickening

I just lost much respect for him as he drones on again about his sad story

TOOOO MUUUCH

[JoeStrummer]

Not sure how you can hate McCain, he is about the most earnest Presidential candidate we have seen. His entire life has been service to the country, even while cheating on his crippled wife or bailing out Charles Keating. I'm okay wth him, I just don't appreciate the way he panders to the Bombs and Jesus crowd.

Although anyone who has damned Obama for a lack of specifics in his speech would need a particle microscope to find anything specific in this red meat speech.

[timvwcom]

...I sincerely hope that McCain will hold true to a promise of accountability and transparency because those two things were clearly considered weaknesses and evils by the current administration.

Other than McCain and Palin, the rest of the team getting him elected and setting his agenda and policies are the same ones who did so for George Bush. Good luck with that dream.

[Brocktoon]

OK for the 10ZEEELLIONTH time today. We get to hear his war story. I am getting weary of this. I am actualy a member of the Vote McCain web site. I'm going to turn him off now and watch Law and Orger. I will send an E-Mail to the site explaining that beating this drum to MUCH TO OFTEN is sickening

I just lost much respect for him as he drones on again about his sad story

TOOOO MUUUCH

Motherfucker spent 8 years in that shit. He can talk about it all he wants as far as I'm concerned.

[Summit]

OK for the 10ZEEELLIONTH time today. We get to hear his war story. I am getting weary of this. I am actualy a member of the Vote McCain web site. I'm going to turn him off now and watch Law and Orger. I will send an E-Mail to the site explaining that beating this drum to MUCH TO OFTEN is sickening

I just lost much respect for him as he drones on again about his sad story

TOOOO MUUUCH

It's the acceptance speech... "too much" is the whole basis... it's for the party faithful who are foaming at the mouth in the crowd just like the crowds foaming in D-town

OMFG did he say history "annointed" him? I'm going to hurl again...

I'm being forced to watch this in class.... just like I was forced to watch BO's speech... I had better get an A for pain and suffering.

[str8line]

We'll drill now!

There you have it.


Notice he didn't mention drilling in Alaska?

[smitchell333]

I too have thought somewhat highly of McCain. His willingness to stand up to even Bush on matters of importance such as torture and campaign finance reform make him stand out amongst the typical republican hypocrites. He IS a man of character above most Republicans and Democrats.


But he has in my independent opinion dropped the ball - his choice of Palin as a pseudo crusader with her hyper-religious right agenda has galvanized my opinion against him. I cannot tolerate the possibility that she would find herself in the oval office saying: "someone tell me what IS it that the President does." Or that she'll push forward a hyper anti-choice agenda or go off on religous war/crusade because god tells her.

[kush1]

He needs to get a pageant coach to teach him to smile, that shit looks painful.

[Summit]

He needs to get a pageant coach to teach him to smile, that shit looks painful.

The North Vietnamese broke his face repeatedly.

[Brocktoon]

Notice he didn't mention drilling in Alaska?

Hmmmm. I hadn't. His girl sure is for it.

[montanaskier]

Obama said it well, McCain does love the country...no doubt and his story is amazing. Just not the right guy for the job. I belive in pro choice, I believe in homosexuals right to be that way, I believe in our environment. McCain is just too old.....too much of the same....time for new blood.

[enlosandes]

Waaay too much "fight"!

[Blurred]

Motherfucker spent 8 years in that shit. He can talk about it all he wants as far as I'm concerned.

FKNA.

What the fuck have you shitbags done that even comes close?

He deserves it more than most, and he's definitely done more for this country than Obama. Douchebags.

[axebiker]

Motherfucker spent 8 years in that shit. He can talk about it all he wants as far as I'm concerned.

I'll listen to my friend's Iraq stories as long as he wants to tell them. I got out; he stayed in. He's earned that right. Anyone who thinks otherwise can fuck off.

McCain has earned it. If that's all he talks about, he has earned it.

[Blurred]

Obama said it well, McCain does love the country...no doubt and his story is amazing. Just not the right guy for the job. I belive in pro choice, I believe in homosexuals right to be that way, I believe in our environment. McCain is just too old.....too much of the same....time for new blood.

so abortion, homos, and global warming!!!! are the most important issues to you.

[montanaskier]

while I have MAD respect for his POW story, that does not make him a good president.

[MTT]

Motherfucker spent 8 years in that shit. He can talk about it all he wants as far as I'm concerned.

I agree but come on!! Every day multiple time per day. I find much honor in the man but too much. It set a back drop about who he is.

Now like the Dems, he reapeats it OVER AND OVER like we are all dogs with a short attention span.

Its being used like a talking point

[montanaskier]

so abortion, homos, and global warming!!!! are the most important issues to you.



environment probably the most important.......and the ability for people to make their own decisions, not the government.

[Blurred]

I agree but come on!! Every day multiple time per day. I find much honor in the man but too much. It set a back drop about who he is.

No like the Dems he reapeats it OVER AND OVER like we are all dogs with a short attention span.

Its being used like a talking point

This just in..... It was his acceptance speech.

[enlosandes]

They are playing Baracuda. I want Palen to strip to it!

[JoeStrummer]

I locked my keys in my car once at the trailhead, when I got back it was snowing and I only had a 2-LAYER GORE-SHELL for protection and 2 GU PACKETS. I waited for Roadside Assistance for almost a WHOLE HOUR.

[str8line]

Motherfucker spent 8 years in that shit. He can talk about it all he wants as far as I'm concerned.

Agreed, I liked that part of the speech. I really don't think there is any orchestration in his reciting his war experience. It's an important part of his make-up and comes from his heart.

[axebiker]

They are playing Baracuda. I want Palen to strip to it!

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[TJ.Brk]

All I heard was a bunch of country music. Now I like country music and all but it does not make up America.

I get a kick out of the Heart "Baracuda" song for Palin.

But back to the speech. Well I'm wondering where the beef is. Meaning his plan other than to promise change.


I do like McCain, but his "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" and his finger on the football scares the hell out of me.

[Blurred]

environment probably the most important.......and the ability for people to make their own decisions, not the government.

You'd better not have kids if the environment is the most important thing to you.

[kush1]

The North Vietnamese broke his face repeatedly.

REALLLYYY???? I hadn't heard.......

[Tippster]

I had no idea John McCain was a POW. :rolleyes:

I did like the line "...it's time for us to catch up to history." Catchy and thought provoking.

[axebiker]

I locked my keys in my car once at the trailhead, when I got back it was snowing and I only had a 2-LAYER GORE-SHELL for protection and 2 GU PACKETS. I waited for Roadside Assistance for almost a WHOLE HOUR.

Maybe YOU should run! :yourock:

[montanaskier]

You'd better not have kids if the environment is the most important thing to you.

adopting from China or Africa

[axebiker]

I had no idea John McCain was a POW. :rolleyes:

You missed your window - pg. 2... :(

[JoeStrummer]

Maybe YOU should run! :yourock:

I thought about that. Despite my impressive, larger than life story I think I can better serve society in other ways.

Also, I like cocaine, deviant sex, and don't believe in Jeebus. And I have a criminal record for discharging a fire extinguisher in a Waffle House.

[Tippster]

Sorry - just logged on. TV's in the basement - compooper in the attic. So what did everyone think of the protesters who snuck in? I was rather surprised.

[flowtron's ghost]

He had that wrinkle room bumpin. I found the shots of the crowd to be the most disturbing over the course of the past two evenings....the crowd and Palin's creepy tooth baring sneers when she was about to make an anti-dem crack.

I heard a rumor that "Sara Palin Naked" was the top web search term of the week.

[Brocktoon]

Sorry - just logged on. TV's in the basement - compooper in the attic. So what did everyone think of the protesters who snuck in? I was rather surprised.

I wish they would have let her show her tits. You could tell she wanted to.

[Rasputin]

They are playing Baracuda. I want Palen to strip to it!

It seems apropo.

If the real thing dont do the trick
You better make up something quick
You gonna burn burn burn burn it to the wick
Ooooooh, barracuda?

[MTT]

Motherfucker spent 8 years in that shit. He can talk about it all he wants as far as I'm concerned.

OK.

I Remember much earlier this year when some press dude was interviewing an old dude in a coffee shop, asks old dude what do you think of John McCain being president.

Old dude gaffs and says, well if he wants to be president? He's sure as hell earned it!!

It might just be that simple?

Also when the dustup started about state sponsored Torture, I was saddened and thought to myself (If McCain were in charge) this shit would not have gone on.

I guess I am still in his corner. But not all warm and fuzzy about him being President just comfortable with him for the next 4 years

[Arty50]

His fake smiles make me cringe, but I write it off to side effects from being fucked up in the shit.

In the words of Public Enemy, "Don't believe the hype."

I really liked that speech too. He said a lot of great and noble things; things that we should all be proud of and want to aspire to. Service for country (not necessarily military service), charity, compassion, etc.

However, I don't believe a word of it.

I've been a registered Republican since the day I turned 18. I like the basic principles the party was founded on; and I'm ashamed, like McCain preached, that they've gotten away from them. It's the reason I didn't vote for Bush in either of the last elections. But for McCain to claim to be this harbinger of change is a joke.

Back in 2000, I was a big fan of McCain. I hated the Clinton administration and was looking forward to having someone who wasn't afraid to speak the truth and speak his mind take over. He was the anti-Slick Willy. One night during the primary season, I was sitting down in front of the TV with my dad (who was a life long Republican). We were talking about the various candidates and I brought up how much I liked McCain. His response, "Be very careful. McCain is a two faced stooge." I denied it and told him he was flat out wrong. His response: "You'll see."

Well, I saw. Since then, McCain has done a complete reversal on numerous issues and all I can think about now is "Well, the old man was right." The only reason for these reversals is so that he could get elected. It's not about you, it's about him getting to the White House. Don't believe otherwise for a second.

So while I really liked his speech and a lot of the message he conveyed, he will not be getting my vote.

[Rasputin]

Sorry - just logged on. TV's in the basement - compooper in the attic. So what did everyone think of the protesters who snuck in? I was rather surprised.

Perhaps they were an intentional part of the show. :wink:

[Rubicon]

I just can't see McCain sitting down with Putin and making peace. Blowing each other up? Maybe.

Putin will fuck this world beyond imagination. He IS the devil.


I'm coming to believe that how the next POTUS confronts(or not) Putin will define his presidency. If it's not handled properly we will be longing for the days when our biggest problems were the national debt and a handful of hijackers on airplanes.

[axebiker]

Sorry - just logged on. TV's in the basement - compooper in the attic. So what did everyone think of the protesters who snuck in? I was rather surprised.


Nothing compared to what is going on outside. I live about 2 miles from downtown St. Paul - it's a little sketchy. I skipped my ride today - good thing too - I would have REALLY been in the wrong place!! I got my fair share of CS gas in the military. I don't miss it.

As for the 2 douches inside, the 5 seconds of disruption - whatever... They proved nothing. If anything, they only increased the resolve of the 'Pubs.

[iscariot]

If McCain can say that Palin is the "wonderful mother of 5 children" does that then open her "mothering" to criticisms that could refute that?

[Tippster]

Paraphrasing: He earned it because he made sacrifices during wartime.

By that argument Max Cleland should still be in the Senate and probably Majority Leader.

Having been a POW is an awful thing, and I'm sorry he went through it. I just don't get how it's a resume builder for POTUS, but then again, unlike Brocktoon, I'm not and never have been in the military.

[str8line]

Sorry - just logged on. TV's in the basement - compooper in the attic. So what did everyone think of the protesters who snuck in? I was rather surprised.

Funny shit. I liked McCain's line. Something like, "Please...please........please...please............ ....please.....please". Then, with a smile, "Pay no attention to the static and interference", then seriously, "we've had enough of yelling at each other in our country".

[axebiker]

If McCain can say that Palin is the "wonderful mother of 5 children" does that then open her "mothering" to criticisms that could refute that?

Only if Messiah Barry says it's okay.

[schindlerpiste]

I liked him. I thought that he was sincere. I think that he will fight for what he belives in with his dying breath. I do have concerns (his staff dictating policy; his hands being tied; his age), but I sense that he would be a more truly passionate leader than Obama (despite the passion in Obama's speech). ALthough, he might be able to control his staff (especially if he appoints qualified people from both parties), he cannot control his age (apparently, unlike his wife).

[Tippster]

Oddly enough he called it the "...brown noise and the Static." What the hell is brown noise?

[Blurred]

Oddly enough he called it the "...brown noise and the Static." What the hell is brown noise?

ground noise

[axebiker]

"we've had enough of yelling at each other in our country".

YES.

1357

[gonehuckin]

I'm basically left of the whole spectrum but I have a mixed view that sometimes leans Barry Goldwaterish. It would take a book to explain but as it relates to this discussion, I would have voted for McCain pre-2007, even over one of the best candidates of my time (Obama), Clinton and Reagan being the other two. In person, I find him to be very intelligent and charismatic. I think his temper might be a good thing at times. I believe his world view to be very interesting and informed. The reason Leiberman likes him are the same reasons I do.

And the POW thing, he gets all of the free passes in the world from me. I can't speak from experience in anything remotely close. But most of the people I know who have served in wartime, want nothing to do with talking about it. They certainly don't brag about it. But I guess he's earned the right to deal with it his way. The man has honorably served our country and his community for his entire life.

The problem is, in my opinion, he has soldout completely. He pandered too heavily to get the nomination. Prior to 2007, he could have even run as a dem. and he would have been embraced. Now he and his VP nominee, are way too far out there to run this country. He's become opportunist. The whole, "rather lose the race then lose the war" is absolute bullshit. His reversal on just about every key issue, is bullshit.

As the republicans said tonight, you don't get to be president because its your turn, you have to be the right person for the job.



At one time, we had the two best people possible. Now, we're left with one.

[axebiker]

Paraphrasing: He earned it because he made sacrifices during wartime.

By that argument Max Cleland should still be in the Senate and probably Majority Leader.

Having been a POW is an awful thing, and I'm sorry he went through it. I just don't get how it's a resume builder for POTUS, but then again, unlike Brocktoon, I'm not and never have been in the military.

The WHOLE story makes for a much more compelling case than "he was a POW". His sacrifices were extraordinary by any measure. Having been in the military for 10 years, I get it. He defines the words DUTY, HONOR, and INTEGRITY, regardless of the personal costs.

[JoeStrummer]

I am surprised he mentioned almost nothing about the economy. I think we're headed for a reckoning and everyone is going to slide down a socio-economic notch. Billionaires will become millionaires, millionaires will become middle-class, the middle-class will become white trash, white trash will become homosexuals, homosexuals will become Mexicans, Mexicans will become park skiers. And so it goes.

[cmsummit]

I too have thought somewhat highly of McCain. His willingness to stand up to even Bush on matters of importance such as torture and campaign finance reform make him stand out amongst the typical republican hypocrites. He IS a man of character above most Republicans and Democrats.


But he has in my independent opinion dropped the ball - his choice of Palin as a pseudo crusader with her hyper-religious right agenda has galvanized my opinion against him. I cannot tolerate the possibility that she would find herself in the oval office saying: "someone tell me what IS it that the President does." Or that she'll push forward a hyper anti-choice agenda or go off on religous war/crusade because god tells her.


I couldn't agree more. I like and respect McCain, but Palin scares the hell out of me. I can't vote for McCain knowing that Palin is one heartbeat away from POTUS.

[str8line]

One of his proposals was increasing per-child tax exemptions from $3500 to $7000. I have two kids and I am against this. Don't have kids if you can't afford them.

[axebiker]

At one time, we had the two best people possible. Now, we're left with one.

Who would you consider the other?

[axebiker]

I am surprised he mentioned almost nothing about the economy.

He did. Just not at length. There's plenty time for that.

[axebiker]

One of his proposals was increasing per-child tax exemptions from $3500 to $7000. I have two kids and I am against this. Don't have kids if you can't afford them.

I should get to work on family-makin' tonight!! :biggrin:

[str8line]

I couldn't agree more. I like and respect McCain, but Palin scares the hell out of me. I can't vote for McCain knowing that Palin is one heartbeat away from POTUS.

Agreed. I wonder how many votes McCain will lose because of her and how many he will gain.

[Blurred]

I am surprised he mentioned almost nothing about the economy. I think we're headed for a reckoning and everyone is going to slide down a socio-economic notch. Billionaires will become millionaires, millionaires will become middle-class, the middle-class will become white trash, white trash will become homosexuals, homosexuals will become Mexicans, Mexicans will become park skiers. And so it goes.
Classic...

[gonehuckin]

Who would you consider the other?

Obama 2008.
McCain 2006 and before.

[TyWebb]

Totally agree with the Palin take, I feel the exact same. I like McCain, I really do...but I could not bring myself to vote for him, simply because of the Palin factor. She just has that condescending arrogance that reminds me of Bush/Cheney's inability to admit wrong...scares me in a big way.

I have a really, really hard time believing that she will help him at the ballot box.

[Brocktoon]

Paraphrasing: He earned it because he made sacrifices during wartime.

. . .

Having been a POW is an awful thing, and I'm sorry he went through it. I just don't get how it's a resume builder for POTUS. . .

I don't think that's the point. It's not that he rates being president because he went through rough shit, as though the presidency were a carnival prize. Rather, the experience shaped his worldview and developed his character in a profound way.

If you haven't read it, go immediately to Amazon and buy Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" to learn how extreme privation at the hands of a despicable captor can shape one's existential theory.

http://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-Meaning-Viktor-Frankl/dp/080701429X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220586375&sr=8-1

If you can't appreciate how one's existential theory is related to one's character, and how one's character shapes his policies, we'll just have to table this discussion until the next time we're drinking scotch.

[Cliff Huckable]

I am surprised he mentioned almost nothing about the economy. I think we're headed for a reckoning and everyone is going to slide down a socio-economic notch. Billionaires will become millionaires, millionaires will become middle-class, the middle-class will become white trash, white trash will become homosexuals, homosexuals will become Mexicans, Mexicans will become park skiers. And so it goes.

Post of the Month!

[The AD]

Perhaps they were an intentional part of the show. :wink:

No smiley needed. Two bits they were plants. I think it went over like a lead balloon, though.

I was somewhat surprised he mentioned "the child of a migrant worker" being an American considering the heat he's taken on waffling on the illegal immigration issue. Just seems like he's opening up that can of worms.*

Overall my opinion is that McCain is no orator. I guess we all know that. However, I do think he comes across as honest and sincere. I'm not voting for him, but I don't think he'll be as bad as Bush if he is elected.

edit: Cindy McCain's speech was a real snoozer. I think everyone in the arena AND at home thought she was finished about five times before she actually ended.

* I just found the transcript:

In this country, we believe everyone has something to contribute and deserves the opportunity to reach their God-given potential, from the boy whose descendents arrived on the Mayflower to the Latina daughter of migrant workers. We’re all God’s children, and we’re all Americans.

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[axebiker]

Ban this fucker. ^^^


She just has that condescending arrogance

I don't see that at all. But she does have a lot of proving to do. I'm hoping she'll surprise me and exceed expectations. If nothing else, Hilary and Pelosi will have nervous breakdowns - that would be worth the price of admission.

I think BO needs to watch out for the Clintons just as much as the Republican ticket.

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I don't think McCain has logged on yet.

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Ha. For a second I thouhgt Timvwcom went off the deep end!

[TyWebb]

Ban this fucker. ^^^



I don't see that at all. But she does have a lot of proving to do. I'm hoping she'll surprise me and exceed expectations. If nothing else, Hilary and Pelosi will have nervous breakdowns - that would be worth the price of admission.

I think BO needs to watch out for the Clintons just as much as the Republican ticket.

To me, it is the fact that she has a lot of "proving" to do that gives me that feeling. The white house is not the place to prove yourself. Its the place to be so self assured that admitting an incorrect action is simply taken in stride. I just don't see her doing that.

just gives me the same gut feeling as the current admin..

[The AD]

Here's what I'm wondering, if McCain is elected what will end up being more irritating: Bush constantly saying "new-cue-ler" or McCain calling it "Warshington" constantly? :)

[Vets]

Other than McCain and Palin, the rest of the team getting him elected and setting his agenda and policies are the same ones who did so for George Bush. Good luck with that dream.

Very good point.

However, McCain's message about changing government could easily be seen as a put down of the current administration/President/VP/party in power. Was the "USA, USA, USA" chanting mob too loud or too dim to make the connection?
I have to ask, why didn't the incumbant VP, Dick Cheney, run for POTUS? Could it be that the current powers that be F'd up things badly? Furthermore, why would anyone vote for the same party as the one currently occupying the White House? (You can skip over pointing fingers at Congress when Bush promises to veto any real legislative changes.)
Before I end my little rant, here is a link that goes into the issues on Palin:
Think Progress >> The Sarah Palin Digest (http://thinkprogress.org/palin-digest/)

[axebiker]

To me, it is the fact that she has a lot of "proving" to do that gives me that feeling. The white house is not the place to prove yourself. Its the place to be so self assured that admitting an incorrect action is simply taken in stride. I just don't see her doing that.

just gives me the same gut feeling as the current admin..

...and so the debate continues. Oba-ma-kenobi will be in the same little boat as Hockey-Mom.

Barry can't even admit that he was wrong the success of the troop surge yet. He's unable to admit to his past affiliations. You ask him something he doesn't like - he walks away. I don't see Palin doing that - at least not yet. I guess it seems we're talking about the same issues with two different people. Personally, it's more concerning to have a president with those flaws, never mind the fact the Barry can't play well with others - he WILL NOT reach across the aisle. Can't say that about JM.

[TyWebb]

...and so the debate continues. Oba-ma-kenobi will be in the same little boat as Hockey-Mom.

Barry can't even admit that he was wrong the success of the troop surge yet. He's unable to admit to his past affiliations. You ask him something he doesn't like - he walks away. I don't see Palin doing that - at least not yet. I guess it seems we're talking about the same issues with two different people. Personally, it's more concerning to have a president with those flaws, never mind the fact the Barry can't play well with others - he WILL NOT reach across the aisle. Can't say that about JM.

I agree, same type of arrogance from two different parties...I guess my feeling was that if I had to deal with it (and I think I do), than I would rather deal with the arrogance of the dems, relative to the mistakes that they will make compared to the other party. Just my personal feeling, but if they're both going to be unwilling to admit wrong, I just feel better about the "wrongs" that the dems will be unwilling to admit to. Kind of confusing no?

[TJ.Brk]

Well I think it boils down to this.

Do you vote for the guy that goes to bed with "Barbie" every nite saying he is ready, but still doesn't have a plan yet. Or do you vote for the guy that is tall, speaks better, and atleast had a plan in his speech?

So do we vote for Angry man and the Hotlips with the whiney voice?

Or do we Vote for cool dude and the train conductor?

Choice is yours. I now send you back to the comedy that is our country of late.:eek:

[gorms]

Oba-ma-kenobi

Is there no end to your funny names for Obama?

[Rasputin]

Or do we Vote for cool dude and the train conductor?


Bwahaha!

[davep]

What the hell is brown noise?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_noise
that's all I got. Prolly not what he meant.

[Summit]

nopowderdaysinatigercage tag made me giggle


Choice is yours. I now send you back to the comedy that is our country of late.:eek:

shaaaaaadup you merikan expat vet franco canukian :biggrin:

[timvwcom]

Early reviews (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/john-mccain-speech-reacti_n_124115.html) for McCain's speech... not so favorable;




Below is reaction to John McCain's Republican convention speech.

David Gergen thought the speech repeated the same old GOP ideas:


I did not think that the substantive part of the speech worked very well. It was mostly a rerun, retread of a lot of old Republican ideas that have brought us to where we are now. I think the country is looking for fresh answers. It's hard to separate yourself out from President Bush when you essentially have the same economic policies as President Bush. I thought that the policy presentation was a little thin."

Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson slammed McCain's speech on MSNBC


The policy in the speech was rather typical for a Republican. Pretty disappointing. It didn't do a lot of outreach to moderates and independents on issues that they care about. It talked, about issues like drilling and school choice which was really speaking to the converted. I think that was a missed opportunity. Many Americans needed to hear from this speech something they have never heard from Republicans before. And in reality, a lot of the policy they've heard from Republicans before.

The New Republic thought the speech was flat:


It's not over yet but this is a very underwhelming speech. Familiar points explained in pedestrian terms. No overarching themes--right now it's sounding like a State of the Union laundry list. Even the crowd in the hall isn't jazzed. This is the sort of reception Tom Ridge got.

MSNBC pointed out that the biggest applause of the night was for Sarah Palin. Watch clip:


(See link for video)

Jeffrey Toobin told Wolf Blitzer on CNN that:


I thought it was the worst speech by a nominee that I've heard since Jimmy Carter in 1980.

I thought it was disorganized, themeless, I thought it was very, very boring until the end when he started talking about his personal story, which is, of course, remarkable and always important to hear. I personally cannot remember a single policy proposal that he made because they had nothing connecting them. I found it shockingly bad.

The National Review also thought it fell flat:


Ehhhhh...maybe I'm missing some grand strategy or tactics, but I think it was a missed opportunity. Good that he did some policy. I liked that he championed free trade -- something he didn't have to do. I liked the fight, fight, fight stuff. Good that he was specific. I can come up with specific compliments about this or that. But it was flat, forced and basically a free pass for Obama.

The New York Times blog said people were falling asleep:


Sleepy? Our colleague Patrick Healy reports from the floor: There is a delegate in the Utah section and a delegate in Puerto Rico who are both drooping, eyes closed - look asleep - both are men.

ABC News asks whether McCain has a different take on community organizing:


ABC News' Deputy Political Director Karen Travers points out that despite all the "community organizer"-bashing at this convention, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., seems to like the notion, at least based on this passage:

If you find faults with our country, make it a better one. If you're disappointed with the mistakes of government, join its ranks and work to correct them. Enlist in our Armed Forces. Become a teacher. Enter the ministry. Run for public office. Feed a hungry child. Teach an illiterate adult to read. Comfort the afflicted. Defend the rights of the oppressed. Our country will be the better, and you will be the happier. Because nothing brings greater happiness in life than to serve a cause greater than yourself.

If a community organizer isn't someone "defend(ing) the rights of the oppressed," or getting involved to correct the mistakes of government, what is it?

TPM asked if McCain's speech smothered Palin's sizzle?


Not a lot to say about McCain's speech but how on earth did they not avoid this:

Prediction: There will be little to no bounce out of tonight; indeed, McCain's speech will smother Palin's sizzle like a wet blanket.

Time gave it a mixed review:


A mixed performance. The ending worked, though in the hall I doubt anyone could hear him very well as he spoke through the crowd's applause. The final peroration -- "We're Americans. We don't hide from history. We make history" -- was strong stuff.

It also noted McCain's struggle with the Teleprompter.


He's struggling, as he sometimes does -- misplacing the emphasis on words, sounding at times like he's reading the speech for the first time, losing energy during the sections on issues he's never been particularly passionate about, buring applause lines in a string of sentences. It's as if he can't bring himself to pretend he's not reading a teleprompter -- that the charade distracts and frustrates him.

[Tuckerman]

I like his somewhat centrist stance on the issues and willingness to go against his party at times.

Are you kidding he's a liberal who voted against tax cuts. But his VP seems to have her shit together. He does have the fighter pilot thing going for him, all the older pilot guys I have ever met have been vary hard working straight shooters.

[Tuckerman]

Do you vote for the guy that goes to bed with "Barbie" every nite saying he is ready,

Yeah but is Barbie?

[axebiker]

Early reviews (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/john-mccain-speech-reacti_n_124115.html) for McCain's speech... not so favorable;

I'm seeing a lot of "McCain-friendly sources" there - MSNBC, CNN, The Nat'l Rev. NY Times... :rolleyes2

[warthog]

I don't have time to read all the responses, but I think that we should put a golden ticket about 1 ft over McCain's head. If he can reach up and grab it, he is President. See how bad he wants it.

[axebiker]

Classy. Real classy.

[SKISC]

I don't think you are nuts. I am going to vote for him. I really liked Palin as well. If she is as strong and spunky as she came across in her speech then I don't doubt that she could handle the job.

While it is true that McCain is not the best speech maker, does that really matter? Obama makes a hell of a speech but honestly scares the shit out me and I don't trust him. I think McCain will do a good job. I did not like him in the beginning but lately my thoughts have been changing and he will get my vote.

[axebiker]

I don't think you are nuts. I am going to vote for him. I really liked Palin as well. If she is as strong and spunky as she came across in her speech then I don't doubt that she could handle the job.

While it is true that McCain is not the best speech maker, does that really matter? Obama makes a hell of a speech but honestly scares the shit out me and I don't trust him. I think McCain will do a good job. I did not like him in the beginning but lately my thoughts have been changing and he will get my vote.

I honestly thought I had no horse in the race up until the last week. I still need a little more convincing that JM's for real, but he's looking better to me each day.

[Grange]

I watched his speach last night and couldn't help but think, God I wish he actually believed and meant what he is saying. After the 2000 election is where he began to lose his "Maverick" status. Once the 2004 election came I really started looking at him like he was just another typical Republican. Shortly after that is when he really started to pander and I lost my respect for him.

[shredgnar]

How much of that speech do you really think he wrote? He looked like he didn't even mean some of it, especially the insults to Obama. You could see him wince after saying some things.

Terrible speaker but if you watch him, I think you can see what he is sincere about. I was impressed and found myself almost getting sucked in by the POW stories.

[Summit]

Early reviews (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/04/john-mccain-speech-reacti_n_124115.html) for McCain's speech... not so favorable;

The Huffington Post didn't like a Republican Speech? I'm SHOCKED! STOP THE PRESSES! In other news, WND doesn't like Democrats and shit smells like shit.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Probably been stated before but after about 30 seconds I felt like I needed an adrenaline shot to stay awake...good gawd is he fucking boring to listen too. Talk about an unispired speech.

I did think he handled the protesters well...what did he say, something like "uhh, disregard the ground noise and the static".

His story about being tortured is tragic. It's too bad he's for waterboarding though. I don't really understand how he can flip flop on something he was so passionate about and something so personal to him...regardless of weather the GOP thinks torture is all great grand and super. Plus, what does having the shit tortured out of you do for making you more qualified to be president? Using that logic any multitude of terrorists at Gitmo would be just great replacements for the POTUS.

All in all, boring speech by a tired old senial man with little to offer the American public. Time for some new people in office.

Finally, I didn't read the five pages of this thread...just a couple of posts...thanks.

[PNWbrit]

The North Vietnamese broke his face repeatedly.

He inspires me..... to want to do the same.

[MarsB]

Still haven't heard how those of you who 'trust McCain' reconcile what gonehuckin and Arty pointed out about his complete reversal from his 2000-era 'maverick' status?

I, too, used to hold him in high esteem seven years ago. I thought he was a refreshing choice and respected his straight talk and willingness to question the policies of not just the Dems but the neocons and the religious right. The day I saw him make nice with Falwell at Liberty University, I couldn't believe it. Now it all makes things clear. Torture? ANWAR drilling? Complete 180.

How do you trust someone who sold his soul for the nomination?

[Grange]

His story about being tortured is tragic. It's too bad he's for waterboarding though. I don't really understand how he can flip flop on something he was so passionate about and something so personal to him...regardless of weather the GOP thinks torture is all great grand and super. Plus, what does having the shit tortured out of you do for making you more qualified to be president? Using that logic any multitude of terrorists at Gitmo would be just great replacements for the POTUS.



When did McCain flip flop on waterboarding and torture? As far as I know he was against torture including waterboarding.

[GoldMember]

He inspires me..... to want to do the same.

I hope you're just trying to be funny. It wasn't but I hope that was the intent.

[Adolf Allerbush]

When did McCain flip flop on waterboarding and torture? As far as I know he was against torture including waterboarding.

Well he agrees with the majority of the GOP that waterboarding is not torture. I think common sense indicates otherwise...hense the flip flop. He'll bend on just about any of his ideals to get into the Whitehouse...now, what worries me is that who knows what he truly stands for anymore. He was always outspoken against torture...and understandably why...now he's flipped on something very close and personal to him.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/20/politics/main3852533.shtml?source=RSSattr=Politics_3852533

[MarsB]

Google is your friend, grange. Here's a crumb (http://www.americanconservativedaily.com/2008/02/mccain%E2%80%99s-waterboarding-flip-flop/).

[Adolf Allerbush]

^^ Google is your friend. Here's a crumb (http://www.americanconservativedaily.com/2008/02/mccain%E2%80%99s-waterboarding-flip-flop/).

Agreed...

[GoldMember]

Chris Mathews got it right with his analysis that McCain had essentially declared divorce from the current status-quo of the Republican party in Washington. McCain is making the choice between he and the Democrats. All the talk about reform, how the R's mission had been corrupted, how they went to change Washington but Washington changed them. Does anyone really believe Bush wasn't there because of Gustav? I think he was uninvited. McCain wants, and needs, to put space between himself and Bush. He got the nomination, which took some pandering to get (politicians pander; who knew? Without pandering to some groups, you don't get elected. It's part of the game.) and appears now to be morphing back toward his maverick ways. Time will tell and we should learn a lot more as the debates move forward but I think it's going to be a shift from what Obama's camp is pushing, the four more years of Bush platform. It's going to be an interesting election.

[MarsB]

So you are going to roll the dice, and hope that the Maverick is back?

[Adolf Allerbush]

Chris Mathews got it right with his analysis that McCain had essentially declared divorce from the current status-quo of the Republican party in Washington. McCain is making the choice between he and the Democrats. All the talk about reform, how the R's mission had been corrupted, how they went to change Washington but Washington changed them. Does anyone really believe Bush wasn't there because of Gustav? I think he was uninvited. McCain wants, and needs, to put space between himself and Bush. He got the nomination, which took some pandering to get (politicians pander; who knew? Without pandering to some groups, you don't get elected. It's part of the game.) and appears now to be morphing back toward his maverick ways. Time will tell and we should learn a lot more as the debates move forward but I think it's going to be a shift from what Obama's camp is pushing, the four more years of Bush platform. It's going to be an interesting election.

Doesn't that worry you though? Do you really know what the guy stands for with all this flip flopping just because he wants really really bad to be POTUS? I think you're fairly moderate so I guess maybe you're hoping he's the old school McCain and this is all an act to get staunch GOP'ers to vote for him. Could be...I guess I'm not sold on that and really he's way fucking old. I don't think Palin would be a good POTUS.

[timvwcom]

I'm seeing a lot of "McCain-friendly sources" there - MSNBC, CNN, The Nat'l Rev (WHA???). NY Times... :rolleyes2


The Huffington Post (FYI HP amalgamated quotes, none from them) didn't like a Republican Speech? I'm SHOCKED! STOP THE PRESSES! In other news, WND doesn't like Democrats and shit smells like shit.

Ummm...

-David Gergen: In addition to serving in the Nixon, Ford, and Reagan administrations, Gergen was also a campaign staffer for George H.W. Bush's 1980 presidential campaign. Despite his long-standing association with Republicans, Gergen has stated that he is actually an independent, and served as an adviser to Democratic President Bill Clinton, first as a Counselor on both foreign policy and domestic affairs and then as Special International Advisor to then-Secretary of State Warren Christopher.

-Michael Gerson: Michael John Gerson (born May 15, 1964, New Jersey) is an op-ed columnist for The Washington Post and a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He served as President George W. Bush's chief speechwriter from 2001 until June 2006, and as a senior policy advisor from 2000 through June 2006. A member of the White House Iraq Group, Gerson was called "the conscience of the White House" by some admirers.

-The National Review: National Review (NR) is a biweekly magazine and web site, founded by the late author William F. Buckley, Jr. in 1955 and based in New York City. It describes itself as "America's most widely read and influential magazine and web site for Republican/conservative news, commentary, and opinion." It is usually considered the center of intellectual activity for the American Conservative movement in the twentieth century.

Also, if you consider ABC News and Time Democratic mouthpieces... you might be a Fox New mouth breather. Just sayin'

Other than the "Fox News" Washington Bureau (AP News)... find another glowing review???

[Summit]

Uhoh... tim is doing the colored post thing again... my eyes glaze right over in pain...



The North Vietnamese broke his face repeatedly.He inspires me..... to want to do the same.

publicly insinuating desire to torture presidential candidates... keep reminding us why you are a fucking idiot

[GoldMember]

Doesn't that worry you though? Do you really know what the guy stands for with all this flip flopping just because he wants really really bad to be POTUS? I think you're fairly moderate so I guess maybe you're hoping he's the old school McCain and this is all an act to get staunch GOP'ers to vote for him. Could be...I guess I'm not sold on that and really he's way fucking old. I don't think Palin would be a good POTUS.

It's how the game is played, pure and simple. If you don't think Obama is pandering for various segments of the vote, you're not watching. You can't get elected unless you pay attention to the entire voting public, particularly the party's traditional base. I doubt McCain got a lot of happiness meeting with Falwell but it's just part of the job. Getting elected and serving office are two distinctly different functions, lest I remind you of Bush's 'No nation building' commitment in 2000.

As for me, socially moderate, fiscally and defensively conservative. Like I told you in another thread, national defense is my choice for top priority for the federal government. The other stuff is more specific to particular interest groups and I don't get too worked up over any of it. I lean more toward the Republicans in elections but deplore the impact the rightwing of the party has had on the actions of some our elected officials.

[Adolf Allerbush]

It's how the game is played, pure and simple. If you don't think Obama is pandering for various segments of the vote, you're not watching. You can't get elected unless you pay attention to the entire voting public, particularly the party's traditional base. I doubt McCain got a lot of happiness meeting with Falwell but it's just part of the job. Getting elected and serving office are two distinctly different functions, lest I remind you of Bush's 'No nation building' commitment in 2000.

As for me, socially moderate, fiscally and defensively conservative. Like I told you in another thread, national defense is my choice for top priority for the federal government. The other stuff is more specific to particular interest groups and I don't get too worked up over any of it. I lean more toward the Republicans in elections but deplore the impact the rightwing of the party has had on the actions of some our elected officials.

I hear you and I agree there is pandering on both sides...but not on things like torture IMO...which makes me wonder wht McCain really stands for and in direct response to you being concerned about defense. I've read McCain and Obama's approach and I see little difference other than Obama is willling to talk to some of our enemies with less stringent conditions than McCain...which I don't see as a problem...anyway, what I"m getting at is who knows what he's about...it's all pandering with McCain

[PNWbrit]

publicly insinuating desire to torture presidential candidates...

No torture intended but given the opportunity I'd likely be unable to resist the temptation to punch in the face at least twice.

Some people have that effect on me. I blame my Sarf London roots.

[Mani_UT]

McCain has earned it. If that's all he talks about, he has earned it.

You don't earn anything fighting in wars that were not worth fighting for. That's probably the most important thing I learned from my Dad.

[P_McPoser]

Very good point.

However, McCain's message about changing government could easily be seen as a put down of the current administration/President/VP/party in power. Was the "USA, USA, USA" chanting mob too loud or too dim to make the connection?
Not that it really changes your point that much, but the crowd was chanting USA USA USA whenver liberal infiltrators started chanting protests.


I am surprised he mentioned almost nothing about the economy. I think we're headed for a reckoning and everyone is going to slide down a socio-economic notch. Billionaires will become millionaires, millionaires will become middle-class, the middle-class will become white trash, white trash will become homosexuals, homosexuals will become Mexicans, Mexicans will become park skiers. And so it goes.

Fucking Hillarious


When did McCain flip flop on waterboarding and torture? As far as I know he was against torture including waterboarding.
He still is, I think.


Well he agrees with the majority of the GOP that waterboarding is not torture.

Untrue.
“They should know what it is. It is not a complicated procedure. It is torture.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/us/politics/26giuliani.html?_r=1&oref=slogin



He'll bend on just about any of his ideals to get into the Whitehouse...now, what worries me is that who knows what he truly stands for anymore.

Agreed. This is why I am still wishy washy. It seems like a gamble. Would we get the old McCain, or the new, dis-improved McCain? Is the swing to the right a show to energize the base? Will he change once he is elected, to what most of us moderate republicans would like to see? Gambling, plain and simple. At least we know Obama will be left of the current admin...How far left is a whole different gamble for someone in my shoes.



He was always outspoken against torture...and understandably why...now he's flipped on something very close and personal to him.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/20/politics/main3852533.shtml?source=RSSattr=Politics_3852533

I'm not sure I buy that flip flop, but McCain confuses the hell out of me in this article. :confused:


(AP) (McCain Said)...President Bush should veto a measure that would bar the CIA from using waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods on terror suspects.



McCain voted against the bill, which would restrict the CIA to using only the 19 interrogation techniques listed in the Army field manual.

OK, so he voted against the bill to limit CIA interrogation methods, which taken at face value means he is OK with water boarding, which is in direct opposition to his previous stances on the issue.


"I think I can show my record is clear. I said there should be additional techniques allowed to other agencies of government as long as they were not torture."


But, he then qualifies his vote with this statement. To me, this shows that he wants to allow techniques NOT in the manual, that are NOT torture. He has been quoted saying that he beleives waterboarding to be torture. So this does not past the test as a true flip-flop. (yet)



"I was on the record as saying that they could use additional techniques as long as they were not cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment," McCain said. "So the vote was in keeping with my clear record of saying that they could have additional techniques, but those techniques could not violate" international rules against torture.

More of the same qualifying statements.

Now, HERE is the meat that I think shows that McCain wasn't voting in favor of Waterboarding.



If a president disagrees with legislation, he should veto it, McCain said. He said he disapproves that Bush sometimes signs legislation he dislikes, then issues critical "signing statements" outlining his objections.

McCain said he would never issue a critical signing statement: "If I disagree with a law that's passed, I'll veto it."

From this, I take his vote against the legislation to be a disagreement with it's broad regulation of coerction techniques not outlined in the Army field manual. If the legislature passes a bill outlining the specific disallowment of specific techniques such as waterboarding, I guarantee that McCain would vote for it.

From the other article, this paragraph intrigued me and scared me:
“John McCain has tried to moderate his stance and appear more appealing to Americans that don’t think terrorists who kill women and children and that are not bound by the Geneva Conventions (nor abide by them) should be treated with kid gloves. His vote against this legislation is a sign of that according to my sources within the campaign.”

Now, obviously this is an opinion piece, but really, it saddens me if this is true.

One of the great things that the USA has to be proud of is our history of taking pretty good care of our POWs and injured enemies (there are always a few blips). That is why there has been such outrage over the recent events in Iraq and Gitmo.

If there is this sentiment in a majority of the political right, that makes us no better than Hitler, to look down upon our enemies as subhuman savages... It's disturbing, and McCain should know better.


It's going to be an interesting election.
FKNA, mang.

Anyone notice how the environment is slipping off the radar screen? It's there as parts of the energy policies, but doesn't seem to be there as a whole.

[P_McPoser]

Hey tim, you liked that shit, didn't you?! :D

[Powow]

If there is this sentiment in a majority of the political right, that makes us no better than Hitler, to look down upon our enemies as subhuman savages... It's disturbing, and McCain should know better.
"... he's worried that someone won't read them their rights?" Drew huge applause.

[P_McPoser]

"... he's worried that someone won't read them their rights?" Drew huge applause.

This is a whole different argument. Miranda rights apply to arrests by Law Enforcement agencies. POWs have very few rights other than those outlined by the Geneva Convention.

[Powow]

This is a whole different argument. Miranda rights apply to arrests by Law Enforcement agencies. POWs have very few rights other than those outlined by the Geneva Convention.
It wasn't aimed at POWs. It was a comment on your mention of hitler: The republicans are asking for fascism. They won't get it with McCain, but Palin...

[timvwcom]

Hey tim, you liked that shit, didn't you?! :D

Hell yeah!!!

I almost commented on it... then I saw the progression of your understanding that McCain DID vote to sustain Bush's veto on banning waterboarding and figured you needed a few minutes to let it soak in.

(ps. How did it feel using some color to emphasis what you were pointing out? And that was "just the tip", next time giv'er the whole thing using some more of the 40 colors, 7 text sizes and 21 different fonts. Well, unless you like it "vanilla" all the time??? :( )

[P_McPoser]

It wasn't aimed at POWs. It was a comment on your mention of hitler: The republicans are asking for fascism. They won't get it with McCain, but Palin...

Palin is kind of scary.

[tarkman1]

McCain's speech in general was pretty flat.

IMO, he promised to take on so, so many things. Overpromise and underdeliver?

I thought his comment was very telling about exercising veto power to nix any pork barrel bill that came his way. The best of leaders would never have to exercise that power because pork bills wouldn't make it that far.

[P_McPoser]

I thought his comment was very telling about exercising veto power to nix any pork barrel bill that came his way. The best of leaders would never have to exercise that power because pork bills wouldn't make it that far.

Once he started vetoing every single one, they'd stop coming pretty quick.

[hutash]

Nothing new in his speech, just more republican pandering. I was hoping now that he had the nomination he would step it up several notches. He didn't, so it looks like he will be four more year of neo-con/Bush politics. A couple of times he danced around the issue, but never really blamed the republicans for the last 8 years. Had he done that he would get some respect from me, but each time he toned it down.


Speech=Fail


The other thing that really makes me lose respect for him was his first major decision as the then soon to be republican nominee, and that was to select Falin as VP. If he is so willing to go that far right, I can't see how he is going to be such a moderate republican. That woman is just a nut case, as has been pointed out time and again. Anybody that can't see that is an idiot. Since he picked her, I have to believe McCain is an idiot. Maybe he had to, to appease certain party bosses, but if that is the case, then he is no maverick. As someone already pointed out, the people who got him here will be the ones surrounding him for the next four years....more of the same.

VP choice=Fail, big time Fail


I will not vote for him in this current condition, though I do like many things about him. Were he to dump Palin quickly, and really start to tell the republican party to fuck off, tehn he could earn my vote. Unfortunately, that is not likely to happen, and we will have four more years of tired republican politics if he should get elected. Obama's got some work to do, but I think he will be the next president.

[P_McPoser]

Here's a good conspiracy theory I've heard.

McCain comes out next week, makes a speech about how he is tired of sucking the GOP's dick, and dumps Palin for Lieberman, "showing he's a maverick, and bucks party lines."

Too bad it's pure fantasy, heh.

[Tippster]

It seems apropo.

If the real thing dont do the trick
You better make up something quick
You gonna burn burn burn burn it to the wick
Ooooooh, barracuda?

Anne & Nancy Wilson contacted the McCain campaign and told them they couldn't use their song anymore. Seriously. (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008160571_webheart05m.html)

[P_McPoser]

Anne & Nancy Wilson contacted the McCain campaign and told them they couldn't use their song anymore. Seriously.

Good thing all the papers are reporting it. The opinion of Heart is totally what I was waiting for to make my decision!

[axebiker]

Ummm...

-David Gergen: In addition to serving in the Nixon, Ford, and Reagan administrations, Gergen was also a campaign staffer for George H.W. Bush's 1980 presidential campaign. Despite his long-standing association with Republicans, Gergen has stated that he is actually an independent, and served as an adviser to Democratic President Bill Clinton, first as a Counselor on both foreign policy and domestic affairs and then as Special International Advisor to then-Secretary of State Warren Christopher.

-Michael Gerson: Michael John Gerson (born May 15, 1964, New Jersey) is an op-ed columnist for The Washington Post and a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He served as President George W. Bush's chief speechwriter from 2001 until June 2006, and as a senior policy advisor from 2000 through June 2006. A member of the White House Iraq Group, Gerson was called "the conscience of the White House" by some admirers.

-The National Review: National Review (NR) is a biweekly magazine and web site, founded by the late author William F. Buckley, Jr. in 1955 and based in New York City. It describes itself as "America's most widely read and influential magazine and web site for Republican/conservative news, commentary, and opinion." It is usually considered the center of intellectual activity for the American Conservative movement in the twentieth century.

Also, if you consider ABC News and Time Democratic mouthpieces... you might be a Fox New mouth breather. Just sayin'

Other than the "Fox News" Washington Bureau (AP News)... find another glowing review???

Tim, pointing out a couple people in GIANT (pseudo)NEWS organizations that have a less than journalistic point of view (just like FOX) hardly solidifies any "ummm...GOTCHA!!" in your statement. Good typing though! :smile: But hey - I'll give you a D+ because I was wrong about the Nat'l Review. :biggrin:

Oh - no FOX news for me. I don't watch any network news because it ALL sucks. I usually catch the local news and the weather on my ABC affiliate, but that's about it for me.

I watched all the conventions on PBS if that makes you feel a little better. Had to get my tax money back from them somehow!!

[hutash]

Anne & Nancy Wilson contacted the McCain campaign and told them they couldn't use their song anymore. Seriously. (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008160571_webheart05m.html)

I was really surprised to here that song, and wondered if they gave permission, which I thought very doubtful. Glad to see they are telling the GOP to piss off.

[Vets]

There are others besides Heart.
He doesn't learn.

McCain Offends Van Halen, Sucks at Music (http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/08/mccain-sucks-at.html)

First Paris, Now This: Jackson Browne Sues John McCain (http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/08/jackson-browne.html)

[timvwcom]

There are others besides Heart.
He doesn't learn.

I wonder if this "stealing" from recording artists could catch on somehow? I mean, with the internet and all... I'd think it's conceivable you could listen to a song and not have to pay for it????

GOP Ignores Copyrights, Raises Ire Of Multiple Recording Artists (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/05/heart-van-halen-orleans-j_n_124264.html)

Van Halen - Right Now


Van Halen management tells us the band had no idea McCain was planning on using "Right Now" during his big entrance in Ohio telling us, "Permission was not sought or granted nor would it have been given."

Jackson Browne - Running on Empty


If the whole episode strikes a nostalgic tone, it's because famous musical artists and Republican presidential candidates have butted heads in the past. Bruce Springsteen publicly complained when Ronald Reagan used "Born in the U.S.A" during his campaign in 1984.

Heart - Barracuda


...the Wilsons condemned the usage, adding that Universal Music Publishing and Sony BMG have sent a cease-and-desist notice to the McCain-Palin campaign, according to CNN. "We have asked the Republican campaign publicly not to use our music,'' the group said in a statement.

Orleans - Still the One


Proving that campaign vetting should extend beyond vice presidential contenders (or those vetting the potential veeps), McCain sparked the ire of the song's co-writer, the founding member of Orleans and current New York congressman, John Hall.

Frankie Valli - Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You


Warner Music Group (WMG) appears to have demanded that YouTube remove "Obama Love," a montage of press fawning over Sen. Barack Obama that had been posted on Sen. John McCain's official YouTube channel. "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Warner Music Group," says a message on YouTube.

[hutash]

There are others besides Heart.
He doesn't learn.

McCain Offends Van Halen, Sucks at Music (http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/08/mccain-sucks-at.html)

First Paris, Now This: Jackson Browne Sues John McCain (http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/08/jackson-browne.html)

So, to recap, McCain and his camp get a notice last week to not use Jackson Browne's song without permission, possibly to the tune of 1 million dollars, and then they go ahead and use three more songs without permission yesterday.

Who is running this campaign? Don't they have any gray matter between their ears? I just hope the Palin money keeps rolling in, they will need it to pay the settlements.

Sure this is all stupid little stuff, but these people are hoping to run the fucking country, and they can't even get the little stuff right.:confused:

[David Witherspoon]

You don't appreciate the devious depth of their malevolent intelligence.

Remember that ole saying: It is easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission?

'Specially when you know there's not a chance you'll get permission.
And there's no need to beg forgiveness anyway.

... so I guess that ole sayin' don't really apply; it's more like:
Do as you will & dare them to enforce any consequences.

You've seen this rule applied with ruthlessly consistent malevolence for 7.5 years.

Time to enforce some consequences (http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1980993&highlight=double+your+impact#post1980993).

[Pow4Brains]

RKuDYbnXBJQ

[MTT]

I just came across this shit. There is a piece on this ON FOX NEWS off all places.

I would love to see some oposing info that leads me away from beliving that WE the USA Fucking tortured and Killed 3 prisoners while at Gito who its said we were going to release.

If thats what happened?? Mother Fuck!
http://video.foxnews.com/#/v/4216695/gitmo-suicides-were-actually-homicides/?playlist_id=87937

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2010/01/hbc-90006368

[Rip'nStick]

They are terrorists, why do you care?

Is it Obama's fault?:eek: