Palin: Kicking ass: Like a hockey mom

[schindlerpiste]

She's one smart lady.

My prediction: Game, set match.

Special needs families: check
Women: check
Union workers: check
Regular folks: check

[Lloyd Braun]

..........

[shredgnar]

She reads mighty good. TelePrompTer that is..

I love how Mcain has all of his old opponents coming out and doing his dirty work, saying what he can't.

[montanaskier]

She's one smart lady.

My prediction: Game, set match.

Special needs families: check
Women: check
Union workers: check
Regular folks: check

are you nuts?

Special needs families that believe in pro choice or the environ- no check
same with women, union workers and regular folk.

[ak_powder_monkey]

Union Workers?

[schindlerpiste]

I also predict that she will win over more Hilary supporters than Barry does. SHe did a great job. She was very impressive to me, and more importantly, mainstream America. Let's see which candidate gets a bigger bounce in the polls as a result of the primaries.
If this was her 1st test, I give her an A+..

[Rubicon]

She's one smart lady.

My prediction: Game, set match.




Agreed. I normally resist the urge to predict but if I had to in this case, future unseen disasters not withstanding, I would say McCain/Palin and it ain't even going to be close.

FWIW, I think her daughter being pregnant is a huge plus for her. People who wouldn't normally pay attention are going to eat this up. It's like reality TV on crack...only it's real.

[Long Duck Dong]

I agree. I don't agree with a lot of what she said, but I think she did a really good job tonight and is going to be hard to beat. I had thought that the VP pick was pretty peculiar, but after seeing her speak, shes exactly the kind of running mate that McCain needed I think. Scares the shit out of me.

[AKA]

A shrill bitch that people still don't know, she accomplished nothing.

[timvwcom]

Ok... "What's the Policy here?" :cool:

[Elle Be]

I couldn't disagree more. Hilary supporters are too smart to change their allegiance (and party) simply because of gender. Palin stands for everything Hilary is against.

[bio-smear]

I think if voters hear her voice enough over the next 2 months, they'll respond by voting her back to the governor's quonset hut. The bitch hurts my senses.

[axebiker]

Union Workers?

Husband is a Union worker - at least that's what I thought I heard.

[Blurred]

I couldn't disagree more. Hilary supporters are too smart to change their allegiance (and party) simply because of gender. Palin stands for everything Hilary is against.

Watch this until the end, sweetie.

KACQuZVAE3s

[The Reverend Floater]

Hmmmm...I don't think that she's going to get too many special needs family's votes when she's against social program spending, despite her kid. I still don't think she's stealing too many hilary voters. She might get more women to vote but not those aligned to hilary. And so far the unions seem to be gravitating towards Obama.

I don't know who's going to win--I think it's going to be a tight race. But you have to remember that despite how Palin and/or Biden performs, this race comes down to McCain vs. Obama. Someone posted the other day that in about two weeks it'll return to John vs. Barry.

One interesting point--having volunteered with several disabled veterans as of late, not ONE of them had a good thing to say about John McCain. And believe me, I'm not bringing up politics with these guys--they come right out ranting. He may be a veteran himself but in my limited experience, they do NOT like him. One guy described him as a "traitor" while most of them simply think he's a politician who doesn't stand up for their needs.

[TWGIO Alias]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Teleprompter_schematic.svg/350px-Teleprompter_schematic.svg.png

[pechelman]

hmm

the only difference between a hockey mom and a bulldog...

its the lipstick

so
whats she saying?

she likes it doggy style?

[Dexter Rutecki]

She's one smart lady.


POTD! You're a funny guy.

[RootSkier]

I also predict that she will win over more Hilary supporters than Barry does.

Where do you come up with this shit? Seriously.

[BSS]

bulldogs have lipstick too.

[Rubicon]

Where do you come up with this shit? Seriously.

Did you watch the video that Blurred posted? She's not the only one who feels that way. I don't know if the Mc/Pa ticket will pull more Hillary voters than Obama but there is a sizable number who will not vote for Obama because they feel like Hillary got shafted. The last poll results I saw put that number around 35%.

[neck beard]

If this republican ticket wins then I think 'the rest of the free world' will start searching for a new leader. The Bush years pretty much started that search anyway.

If indeed 'the free world' needs a leader, then America looks pretty much set to disqualify itself on the basis of not taking the job seriously with this Republican ticket.

[jon gaper]

russia or china. moron

[The Reverend Floater]

russia or china. moron

Oh no you di'n't!

[neck beard]

russia or china. moron

Yes, its a Republican shit show America, or, Russia/China. The lesser of two evils? How proud you must be of your Republican US.

Fact is, if the Free World could vote as to who rules us all, I seriously doubt McCain/Palin would ever win.

But here we go again, the most important job in the world for the last century is yet again being trivialised.

Politics is like making money by selling garbage consumer goods to a seething mass of fools: just manipulate the collective mind of the stupid even though you know it isn’t in the best interest of the country or the Free World. So long as you move your product.

Mccain/Palin just want to win, that’s their aim. Fullstop.

Obama wants to lead the US the best he can, but to do that he has to win. To his greatest credit he selects a VP who fills in what he is lacking, with the view of leadership in the future. McCain selects one that will help him win the popularity contest with no vision of leadership that follows.

What the Republicans are doing right now is an insult to the United States.

[fez]

http://www.crosscut.com/politics-government/17341

About Sarah Palin: an e-mail from Wasilla

A suburban Anchorage homemaker and activist — who once did battle with the Alaska governor when Palin was mayor — recounts what she knows of Palin's history.
By Anne Kilkenny (http://www.crosscut.com/authors/anne-kilkenny/)
Editor's note: The writer is a homemaker and education advocate in Wasilla, Alaska. Late last week, Anne Kilkenny penned an e-mail for her friends about vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, whom she personally knows, that has since circulated across comment forums and blogs nationwide. Here is her e-mail in its entirety, posted with her permission.
I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Gov. Sarah Palin since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first-name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99 percent of the residents of the city.
She is enormously popular; in every way she's like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice for vice president and won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because she is a "babe."
It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months.
She is "pro-life." She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby. There is no cover-up involved here; Trig is her baby.
She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.
She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.
Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin's kind of job is highly sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her lifestyle ever been anything like that of native Alaskans.
Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.
She's smart.
Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time) and less than two years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents.
During her mayoral administration, most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings, which had given rise to a recall campaign.
Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative." During her six years as mayor, she increased general government expenditures by more than 33 percent. During those same six years, the amount of taxes collected by the city increased by 38 percent. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax, which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefitted large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.
The huge increases in tax revenue during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list, though — borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt but left it with indebtedness of more than $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? Or a new library? No. $1 million for a park. $15 million-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex, which she rushed through, on a piece of property that the city didn't even have clear title to. That was still in litigation seven years later — to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5 million for road projects that could have been done in five to seven years without any borrowing.
While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once.
These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.
As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as governor Sarah proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state.
In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenue: Spend today's surplus, borrow for needs.
She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits but on the basis of who proposed them.
While Sarah was mayor of Wasilla, she tried to fire our highly respected city librarian because the librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the city librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the librarian are on her enemies list to this day.
Sarah complained about the "old boy's club" when she first ran for mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys." Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the city and as governor, she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal — loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the state's top cop.
As mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla's police chief because he "intimidated" her, she told the press. As governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't fire her sister's ex-husband, a state trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than two dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.
She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town, introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal city administrator; even people who didn't like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.
Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her.
When then-Gov. Frank Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the best, chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission — one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil and gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job, which paid $122,400 a year, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this commission (who was also the state chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the "old boys' club," when she dramatically quit, exposing this man's ethics violations (for which he was fined).

[Blurred]

Fact is, if the Free World could vote as to who rules us all, I seriously doubt McCain/Palin would ever win.


Hey cock pump.....

We're not living under a global government. Go sit in the corner with Cliff.

[fez]

As mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Sen. Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.
As governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects — which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance — but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as "anti-pork."
She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The state party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.
Around Wasilla, there are people who went to high school with Sarah. They call her "Sarah Barracuda" because of her unbridled ambition and predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah's mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and experienced manager, ran for mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.
As governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of legislation known as "AGIA" that forced the oil companies to march to the beat of her drum.
Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She campaigned "as a private citizen" against a state initiaitive that would have either protected salmon streams from pollution from mines or tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on whom you listen to). She has pushed the state's lawsuit against the Department of the Interior's decision to list polar bears as a threatened species.
McCain is the oldest person to ever run for president; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being president.
There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she.
However, there are a lot of people who have underestimated her and are regretting it.
Claim vs. Fact



"Hockey mom": True for a few years
"PTA mom": True years ago when her first-born was in elementary school, not since
"NRA supporter": Absolutely true
Social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, but vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconsitutional).
Pro-creationism: Mixed. Supports it, but did nothing as governor to promote it.
"Pro-life": Mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby but declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation.
"Experienced": Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000.
Political maverick: Not at all.
Gutsy: Absolutely!
Open and transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions.
Has a developed philosophy of public policy: No.
"A Greenie": No. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
Fiscal conservative: Not by my definition!
Pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th century standards.
Pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on residents
Pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in Wasilla's history.
Pro-labor/pro-union: No. Just because her husband works union doesn't make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union.

Why am I writing this?

First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting programs in the schools. If you google my name, you will find references to my participation in local government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.
Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "bad things happen when good people stay silent." Few people know as much as I do because few have gone to as many City Council meetings.
Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out of. I don't belong to any organization that she can hurt. But I am no fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will cost me somehow in the future: that's life.
Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100 or so people who rallied to support the city librarian against Sarah's attempt at censorship.
Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.
Caveats: I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in spending and taxation two years ago (when Palin was running for governor) from information supplied to me by the finance director of the City of Wasilla, and I can't recall exactly what I adjusted for: Did I adjust for inflation? For population increases? Right now, it is impossible for a private person to get any info out of City Hall — they are swamped. So I can't verify my numbers.
You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000" up to 9,000. The day Palin's selection was announced, a city official told me that the current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-1990s.


Anne Kilkenny is a homemaker and education advocate in Wasilla, Alaska.

[neck beard]

Hey cock pump.....

We're not living under a global government. Go sit in the corner with Cliff.

So America isn't the leader of the free world? That phrase gets bandied around daily.

"The rest of us" are frequently impacted by whats going down in the US Federal political areana.

McCain/Palin are an insult the the United States. The rest of the free world expect more from you. Its the most powerful and important job in the world. Do better.

[soulman978]

Watch this until the end, sweetie.

KACQuZVAE3s


That old quack seems intoxicated to me.

[skinny_kid]

Fact is, if the Free World could vote as to who rules us all, I seriously doubt McCain/Palin would ever win.

Is it because if Obama wins we get to be socalists like the rest of them?



I keed

[neck beard]

Is it because if Obama wins we get to be socalists like the rest of them?



I keed

Before I respond, what does 'I keed' mean?

[Rasputin]

Before I respond, what does 'I keed' mean?

I kid, means joking.

Don't listen to Absurd11s, he likes to think that we live in a bubble, and nothing we do affects anything in the world, that's why he likes Palin, because she too doesn't believe that the polar ice is melting because of rising global temperatures.

[Tuckerman]

She's one smart lady.

My prediction: Game, set match.

Special needs families: check
Women: check
Union workers: check
Regular folks: check

Policy of reduced spending: check
Policy of reduced taxes: check
Policy on alternative energy: check
energy: check

[axebiker]

McCain/Palin are an insult the the United States.

The rest of the free world expect more from you. Its the most powerful and important job in the world. Do better.

...and you're the expert on this HOW???

The rest of the "free world" can step up any time if they aren't happy with what we contribute. The "free world" seems to spend a lot more time bitching about us than, oh, MAYBE SAYING 'THANK YOU' for a change.

How 'bout you open up YOUR checkbook? Do better. Please!

[laseranimal]

oh she'll get some Hillary voters

I already know two women who are staunch democrats who have now stuck McCain Palin bumper stickers on their cars right between the 1/29/09 and Hillary for president ones.

When you ask them how they could vote for someone who's entirely a 180 from what Hillary stood for their basic reply is "we don't like Obama at all and we want to vote for a woman." So my guess is if some dyed in the wool liberal women democrats in NY State are thinking about a McCain vote you know there's got to be more out there in more mainstream America. I don't know what the final percentage will be but you'd have to think with the Dems split almost 50/50 in the primary you've got to think McCain has a shot at flipping 10-25% of them.

[Tuckerman]

When you ask them how they could vote for someone who's entirely a 180 from what Hillary stood for their basic reply is "we don't like Obama at all and we want to vote for a woman."

Thats a crappy way to pick who you vote for.

[warthog]

What if Obama had chosen Tim Kaine? Would we be having this discussion about Palin? He was on Obama's short list. He was on the city council, he was the Mayor of Richmond (not exactly NYC, but not Wasilla either), and he has been Governor for about as long as Palin.

Aside from the obvious population difference, I would say Alaska is a bigger player than Virginia in many regards. Energy goes to Alaska, while defense may slightly go to Virginia, just because of the sub bases. Obviously, the ties and close poximity to DC make Virginia a bit more of a player in the national spotlight.

So where is the difference? Why is Tim Kaine such a better candidate? Is it because he went to Harvard Law? I may be the only one in the U.S. to think so, but getting away from the Harvard/Yale connections might do this coutry a bit of good for a while. Is it because he is a man? Nobody would say so, even if it were the case. Is it because Tim Kaine is better known? I wouldn't have known who either of them were before this whole thing, and I would guess most of the country wouldn't have either.

I just find it ineteresting that a guy that was on the Dem. short list has almost the same qualifications as the lady they are ripping apart in the media. I hope she changes some minds. Either way, this race just got a whole lot more interesting.

[bite me]

McCain/Palin are an insult the the United States. The rest of the free world expect more from you. Its the most powerful and important job in the world. Do better.

Okey Doke, let's put a guy who's primary resume grabber is "community activist / coordinator", and a plagurist, who already had to back out of a general election once for being discredited.

Yup, they should be the "leaders of the free world". Gawd:eek:

[schindlerpiste]

Game on. Let the media keep ripping the GOP apart. It is the Dems. biggest weakness. (Well, that, and a lack of experience at the top of the ladder). They're just too star struck to realize it.

Too bad, too...because they have some good ideas.

While my mind won't be completely made up until after the debates (I'm not looking for eloquence), right now, I am 85% sure I'm voting GOP.

[TWGIO Alias]

I'm Ron Burgundy?

[fez]

I just find it ineteresting that a guy that was on the Dem. short list has almost the same qualifications as the lady they are ripping apart in the media. I hope she changes some minds. Either way, this race just got a whole lot more interesting.

right, two people with similar (lack of) qualification for the job. one makes the short list but gets rejected, the other gets accepted for the job.

i'm not sure why you think dems would not have heard the same criticisms the repubs are hearing had the dems chosen kaine.

[neck beard]

...and you're the expert on this HOW???

The rest of the "free world" can step up any time if they aren't happy with what we contribute. The "free world" seems to spend a lot more time bitching about us than, oh, MAYBE SAYING 'THANK YOU' for a change.

How 'bout you open up YOUR checkbook? Do better. Please!

Irrelevant and aggro red herring, so I will say it again: The McCain/Palon ticket is an insult to the United States. As leaders of the free world you should be able to offer much better candidates than that. Now calm down and stop thinking that statement is anti-American or anti-republican. It isnt. Its anti McC/P. Bush was a disaster, but this is a farce.

Thank you for your leadership of the freeworld, now please start taking Federal elections seriously. It matters to the rest of us, like it or not.

[fez]

Game on. Let the media keep ripping the GOP apart. It is the Dems. biggest weakness. (Well, that, and a lack of experience at the top of the ladder). They're just too star struck to realize it.

Too bad, too...because they have some good ideas.

While my mind won't be completely made up until after the debates (I'm not looking for eloquence), right now, I am 85% sure I'm voting GOP.


you've been rocking the cheerleader skirt and pom poms since palin got announced and you're only 85% sure?

i was probably 40% likely to vote repub before she was announced. that would have gone up had mccain done the 'maverick' thing and selected liberman.

the palin choice made my vote solidly for obama. sorry, the religious nutjobs and special interest pandering have ruined the republican party and palin is just another in that line.

[nufenstein]

No way in hell ANY Hillary supporter votes republican come the election day (unless they were republican to begin with). The woman has been out of the country twice!!!!! Thats a freakin joke! I know 6 year olds who have been out of the country more!


*On a complete side note, gotta love that half of the RNC are wearing gaudy cowboy hats with electronic lapel pins....that there is Texas Trash...wooohooo!

[Buster Highmen]

I didn't see the delivery, but in reading the text, she does apparently deliver the usual pandering and misconstruing of the facts that the credit laden US seems to enjoy.

Given the amount of tape with her referring to God's work, I'm not sure I'd call her smart.

She does play on people fears regarding taxes and big gubbermint. The problem is she completely glosses over the focus of Obama's tax plan, the fact that Obamas tax plan lowers taxes for 98% of the US population and his tax plan addresses the national debt to the tune of $700 billion.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1031678,obamamccaintaxplans.article

Taxes won't go up for most people, they will go down under Obamas plan. I don't believe in rolling bad credit personally and I don't think it's good for the country.

If you have to give her credit for continuing the fairy tale, go ahead. I won't.

[schindlerpiste]

Why are the Dems. always on the verbal attack (politically)? Haven't they figured out that this does not win elections? You would have thought so after the Kerry debacle. Vote for who you think is better for the nation, and the world. Don't smear the other guy. It's very distasteful, and the mainstream tires of it quickly.

Oh yeah, 85% in my book is VERY strong.

[skifishbum]

Yo C
You should try and get the kids up to AK next summer, before they unleash an eccofuckin on it.
I think it's funny your > 6 month old puppy is almost as well traveled as Sarah;)

[qwert]

Thank you for your leadership of the freeworld, now please start taking Federal elections seriously. It matters to the rest of us, like it or not.


So if we don't vote for the candidate that YOU want, we're not "taking the Federal elections seriously"? Unbelievable.

What the fuck was in the bombs we dropped on your sorry asses, idiot gas? STFU.

[neck beard]

^ the dumbing down of America. Who's sorry ass?

"I" would be happy with someone fit for the job, D or R.

[TeleHoar]

She had the best slams and one-liners of the campaign.
Obama has written two memoirs but no legislation...classic.

She needs a new "hockey-Mom" joke though.

Any body read the transcript this morning? They spelled out, phonetically, the word "New-Clear"...and it's still in there.
Don''t want to make THAT mistake again.

[qwert]

^ the dumbing down of America. Who's sorry ass?

"I" would be happy with someone fit for the job, D or R.

And so I will ask again: So if we don't vote for the candidate that YOU want, we're not "taking the Federal elections seriously"?

Answer the fuckin' question, dipshit. You have a right to an opinion but you don't have a right to have that opinion takin' seriously. And when your opinion is that anybody who would vote for a candidate that you wouldn't support isn't taking the election seriously, you can rest assured that it won't be.

[The AD]

Okey Doke, let's put a guy who's primary resume grabber is "community activist / coordinator"

Yeah, "U.S. Senator" is much less grabbing.

[gorms]

Why are the Dems. always on the verbal attack (politically)


Did you listen to the speeches last night?
there was some fine mud slinging the rest was partisan spew.

some of my highlights were the over use of maverick, community organizer, terrorist, 911, parts of mccain's story pulled nearly verbatim from Thompson's speech on tueday, "shake up washington"...etc etc.

Others of notable mention-Ms Palin slowly introduces her entire family, but skips over her future son-in-law and father of her first grandchild to be, even though he was sitting right in front of her- a testament of support and family values.
The best though was the coining of the instant classic "Drill Baby Drill"

[neck beard]

Calm down and try talking like a civilized person with the ability to think.

I'd vote for the best candidate for the US and the world. McCain/Palin isnt that. They are a farce and an insult to the United States, and, D or R, you should feel let down and annoyed that this ticket even came to fruition.


And so I will ask again: So if we don't vote for the candidate that YOU want, we're not "taking the Federal elections seriously"?

Answer the fuckin' question, dipshit. You have a right to an opinion but you don't have a right to have that opinion takin' seriously. And when your opinion is that anybody who would vote for a candidate that you wouldn't support isn't taking the election seriously, you can rest assured that it won't be.

[laseranimal]

Thats a crappy way to pick who you vote for.

did I say it was smart?

there are a LOT of pissed off women Democrats who feel like Hillary got the shaft and I'm thinking there's MORE then one or two who are going to cast "protest votes"

[lemon boy]

She was a lot nastier and more sarcastic than I anticipated.

+3 - Lots of red meat for the partisans. This was a good move on the base end of things.
+1 - She is okay as a public speaker.
- 5 - McCain/Palin imo picks up very few Hillary voters and what's worse, pushes a bunch actively to Obama.
- 5 - I don't believe (or I hope) that the nastiness will resonate with "independent" voters. The Republicans are doing a really lousy job this cycle of putting forth a positive message and are instead defining themselves negatively and/or ambiguously.
- 5 - She gutted what heretofore had been an effective (although BS) line of McCain attack: experience

I don't think and hope it won't be enough. Biden needs to come up with a strategy to neuter her nastiness without becoming nasty himself.


Why are the Dems. always on the verbal attack (politically)? Haven't they figured out that this does not win elections? You would have thought so after the Kerry debacle. Vote for who you think is better for the nation, and the world. Don't smear the other guy. It's very distasteful, and the mainstream tires of it quickly.

Seriously, you sound like you didn't bother to watch any of the republican convention speeches or the demo ones either. And that is factoring in a healthy chunk of partisanship on mine and your parts.

[CUBUCK]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1031678,obamamccaintaxplans.article

Taxes won't go up for most people, they will go down under Obamas plan. I don't believe in rolling bad credit personally and I don't think it's good for the country.



Pretty interesting exhibit. Do you know if the tax base numbers include capital gains, interest income etc etc or just salary? Also, on the top of the chart, 23k seems like a pretty significant increase for someone making 227k. is that just an average for anyone making over 227k? Just want to make sure I am reading the data correctly.

[qwert]

Calm down and try talking like a civilized person with the ability to think.

Shut up ass napkin. On my dumbest day, I'm 100 times smarter than you.


I'd vote for the best candidate for the US and the world. McCain/Palin isnt that. They are a farce and an insult to the United States, and, D or R, you should feel let down and annoyed that this ticket even came to fruition.

That's simply restating your conclusion. You have not provided me with any factual basis for reaching that conclusion; you've just repeated the conclusion. Accordingly, you have not advanced your position in the least. And we're all dumber for having read your post.

[lemon boy]

Pretty interesting exhibit. Do you know if the tax base numbers include capital gains, interest income etc etc or just salary? Also, on the top of the chart, 23k seems like a pretty significant increase for someone making 227k. is that just an average for anyone making over 227k? Just want to make sure I am reading the data correctly.

From the source (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/presidential_candidates.cfm)

[The AD]

I think we can already see the tack the Republicans are going to take on any criticism of Palin. Either it's a private, family matter and shouldn't concern us or else the criticism is "sexist." Hell, it just might work.

[CUBUCK]

From the source (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/presidential_candidates.cfm)

yea found it thanks

[supermodel159]

Wow, at first I thought McCain was done for when he picked Palin....after last night it is easy to see he knew what he was doing. All of this bad press by the media is actually helping her now, especially after the speech from last night.

This is getting interesting.

[bite me]

Yeah, "U.S. Senator" is much less grabbing.

Who's primary accomplishment has been...........? He ought to stick to community coordinator - at least it makes him look like he's done something.

[tarkman1]

Why are the Dems. always on the verbal attack (politically)? Haven't they figured out that this does not win elections?....Vote for who you think is better for the nation, and the world. Don't smear the other guy. It's very distasteful, and the mainstream tires of it quickly.

What universe do you live in? What you described is a classic Republican tactic

........................

As for Palin, prepared speech, friendly crowd. She delivered her speech well. Still, that doesn't resonate much with me. She's in the big leagues now, not an Alaskan girls high school basketball championship. She may be up to the task, maybe she will not be. We'll have our chance to learn more.

[neck beard]

Another obvious hate-alias. I did well ignoring people like you for 1000 posts. My fault for slipping up.


Shut up ass napkin. On my dumbest day, I'm 100 times smarter than you.



That's simply restating your conclusion. You have not provided me with any factual basis for reaching that conclusion; you've just repeated the conclusion. Accordingly, you have not advanced your position in the least. And we're all dumber for having read your post.

[GimpToo]

A shrill bitch that people still don't know, she accomplished nothing.

You must be a Campbell Brown fan:eek:

[Tye 1on]

Pretty simple to me. She is in no freakin way qualified to be President, not even in the ballpark. She's on the ticket with a gentleman who would be the oldest ever at the start of a first term. She was only chosen to try and work the vote. That is simply not good judgment on the single biggest decision McCain's ever had to make, on our behalf. Period, end of story.

And Biden? Couple of decades work in the US Senate, leadership on a couple significant committees. Knows the international issues and players. No contest, I can't wait until the debates...

[Dexter Rutecki]

What if Obama had chosen Tim Kaine? Would we be having this discussion about Palin? He was on Obama's short list. He was on the city council, he was the Mayor of Richmond (not exactly NYC, but not Wasilla either), and he has been Governor for about as long as Palin.

Aside from the obvious population difference, I would say Alaska is a bigger player than Virginia in many regards. Energy goes to Alaska, while defense may slightly go to Virginia, just because of the sub bases. Obviously, the ties and close poximity to DC make Virginia a bit more of a player in the national spotlight.


I think that IS the difference, and the fact is that had Obama chosen Kaine there would have been questions about his lack of experience (but you'd still have to take his experience more seriously than that of the obscure, backwater governor chosen by McCain). I'd also point out that most people had at least heard of Kaine before, and VA is definitely a far more prominent gubernatorial position than AK's--VA's population is probably 10-20 times the size of AK's, and VA governors are often national figures. I think Kaine has been seen as a potential presidential pick since he was chosen to give the response to a Bush state of the union a few years ago (or maybe before that, I'm not sure).
Also, given that almost the entire attack line on Obama was that he lacked experience, it's bizarre to choose someone with virtually no meaningful experience (and who is a radical right-wing religious nut) as next in line to be president. It's pretty insane, actually.



So where is the difference? Why is Tim Kaine such a better candidate?

Putting aside better or worse, I'd just respond that Kaine would've been easier to take seriously, and not write off as a purely political choice. Sex has nothing to do with it. If Obama had picked a man or woman with a few years experience as governor of North Dakota (as a random example) who had previously been mayor of some tiny town, it would've rightly raised huge questions about Obama's judgment. Frankly, I would've seen him as an idiot.

[DickDeep]

Bitch shut the fuck up and get me another Beer.

[ColMan]

For me, the scariest thing about her is that she is that her policies will be based on faith rather than rational thought. To say that the war in Iraq is a "task that is from God" is pretty messed up. She sounds just like Bush, but in her case I don't think she is pretending to be a religious nutjob - she is one. Likely a much worse scenario.

[David Witherspoon]

there are a LOT of pissed off women Democrats who feel like Hillary got the shaft and I'm thinking there's MORE then one or two who are going to cast "protest votes"
Probably three, in fact.
But that'll drop to zero as soon as they realize what Palin stands for.

The pissed off Hillary supporters will vote for Obama, like Hillary begged them to.
The pissed off Woman supporters might've ignored Hillary's request and stayed home - until McCain's "energizing" choice.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Shut up ass napkin. On my dumbest day, I'm 100 times smarter than you.


You're hiding it pretty well.

[DickDeep]

I'm starving. Make me a sandwich and bring another Beer.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Policy of reduced spending: check
Policy of reduced taxes: check
Policy on alternative energy: check
energy: check

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong


Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative." During her six years as mayor, she increased general government expenditures by more than 33 percent. During those same six years, the amount of taxes collected by the city increased by 38 percent. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax, which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefitted large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.

I'll give you that she wants to reduce dependency on foreign oil but I think that's in large part because of her close ties with oil companies in AK. I wouldn't get a boner over her policies....and she's not attractive unless you like the old fugly look.

[The AD]

Did anyone else notice how stiff McCain looked when he joined Palin on stage? When I saw him up there the thought definitely crossed my mind that Sarah Palin could end up being President. Maybe McCain's health is great and there really isn't a concern, but that was my gut reaction.

[lemon boy]

You do know that he literally cannot lift his arms any higher than he did, right?

[Rontele]

I love how everyone thinks Palin only spoke well last night because of the teleprompter.

newsflash, even your beloved Barack uses a teleprompter.

[schindlerpiste]

SFB: You make two really good points. These are probably the best two points made by those of us who are skeptical.
Regarding the environment, I have always been in favor of doing whatever is necessary to preserve it. Until recently, I have been against the construction/expansion Alaskan Pipeline, drilling in AK and envading the northern shelf. However, I simply cannot afford to pay $4.00/gal., and I no longer want to depend upon camel jockeys and drug cartels to supply this country with energy. Right now, we have no choice but to excavate our internal resources, and become self-sufficient.
Regarding Palin's lack of travel...wordliness...and the inability to govern, nationally: I agree wholeheartedly. I, too, am concerned. But then again, you don't have to be a darling of the national scene to govern nationally. Look at Truman.


Lemon Boy: I expected no more from you. What you say is simply not true. I'm not a FOX guy. I've listened to a lot of the Dem. and Rep. rhetoric. While it's true that both parties take shots at the other, I'm confident, that in this campaign, the Dems. have smeared Reps. waaay more than the other way around. "Bush sucks, so don't vote for McCain". That is rediculous!!!

[Jim J]

....and she's not attractive unless you like the old fugly look.

Most absurd post in this thread.

[Arty50]

Right now, we have no choice but to excavate our internal resources, and become self-sufficient.

In no way, shape, or form will drilling in AK make us self-sufficient. It might only lower prices slightly...in about 10 years...

To become truly self sufficient, we need massive increases in fuel economy and a huge push for alternative sources of energy. Drilling in AK is a drop in the bucket.

[gorms]

In no way, shape, or form will drilling in AK make us self-sufficient. It might only lower prices slightly...in about 10 years...

To become truly self sufficient, we need massive increases in fuel economy and a huge push for alternative sources of energy. Drilling in AK is a drop in the bucket.

Ding Ding...
http://soupytrumpet.com/uploads/2008/02/aaaaa.jpg

[The AD]

Regarding the environment, I have always been in favor of doing whatever is necessary to preserve it. Until recently, I have been against the construction/expansion Alaskan Pipeline, drilling in AK and envading the northern shelf. However, I simply cannot afford to pay $4.00/gal., and I no longer want to depend upon camel jockeys and drug cartels to supply this country with energy.

So when gas goes above a certain price your desire to preserve the environment goes out the window? OK, fair enough, but I think it's a shitty attitude. Also, did you really need to throw the racial slur in there?

[lemon boy]

Lemon Boy: I expected no more from you. What you say is simply not true. I'm not a FOX guy. I've listened to a lot of the Dem. and Rep. rhetoric. While it's true that both parties take shots at the other, I'm confident, that in this campaign, the Dems. have smeared Reps. waaay more than the other way around. "Bush sucks, so don't vote for McCain". That is rediculous!!!

? Are you fucking shitting me ? That statement is the one that is quite simply not true.

Now I'm not claiming that there is no smear from either side but equating McCain's policies to Bush's is hardly a smear. And I agree that anybody but bush is a poor campaign strategy but a smear it is not.

You want to see the depth of smear, please go to www.snopes.com and review the smears about Obama and then try to find any about McCain. Which candidate had to set up a website specifically to deal with all the smears coming from the other camp? Hint: not McCain.

And finally, with specific respect to your assertion that it is the Dems running a negative no policy campaign and my assertion that it's like you haven't been watching: read the text of Palin's speech and then Biden's speech. One is a lot nastier and thinner on policy/direction of country than the other. Hint: not Biden's.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Most absurd post in this thread.

You seriously find her attractive? Get out more...maybe she's attractive to Alaskans where the male to female ratio is absurd.

[William Murderface]

who says she spoke well?

I thought she did a horrible job.
stiff, not addressing any issues.

woo hoo


Drill baby drill.

ughhh.....

[Adolf Allerbush]

who says she spoke well?

I thought she did a horrible job.
stiff, not addressing any issues.

woo hoo


Drill baby drill.

ughhh.....

My thoughts exactly after her speech last night. She didn't talk about any issues but merely attempted (poorly IMO) to slam BO. I didn't find her humor particularly witty. Her joke about her own mayoral job of Wasilla was a dumb move considering she didn't do much of the actual work...that was left to the town administrator as it usually is...regardless I don't think she really understands what her job duties were as mayor...certainly not as governor. All in all I think she did the Republicans a disservice. I still think she'll get dropped in the coming months as more dirt is dug up on her.

She is a better public speaker than McCain though...which isn't saying much. You can tell the Republicans have little material to use when Palin basically repeated the same drivel that Guliani did minutes before. Only stupid people would be impressed by either speech…which unfortunately is apparently a good chunk of the American populous.

[montanagirl]

But Diddy doesn't like her. Just saw his You Tube rant on CNN...

[qwert]

Another obvious hate-alias. I did well ignoring people like you for 1000 posts. My fault for slipping up.

This is the equivalent of taking your ball and going home.

Why is that you and yours can insult anybody they want but when it's returned in kind, it's just "hateful" and "uncivilized"?

[axebiker]

I love how everyone thinks Palin only spoke well last night because of the teleprompter.

newsflash, even your beloved Barack uses a teleprompter.

Word has it her teleprompter had issues and she had to do a lot of the speech from memory - good story if it turns out to be true.

[axebiker]

My thoughts exactly after her speech last night. She didn't talk about any issues but merely attempted (poorly IMO) to slam BO.

Yeah, not a ton of substance, but I don't know that I expected that...yet. I think last night was a "get to know you" night. November is a long way away - plenty of time for issues, and I'm sure there will be plenty - both real and made-up.

[From_the_NEK]

My thoughts exactly after her speech last night. She didn't talk about any issues but merely attempted (poorly IMO) to slam BO....

You can tell the Republicans have little material to use when Palin basically repeated the same drivel that Guliani did minutes before. Only stupid people would be impressed by either speech…which unfortunately is apparently a good chunk of the American populous.

:yourock: Exactly my thoughts as well as I watched the speeches. Lots of slamming but no real substance. Of course the general American populous has developed a huge appetite for instant gratification (e.g. one line zingers slamming Obama/Biden) in lieu of words containing actual substance that we/they actually need to think about. I'm afraid for my country (actually have been for some time).

[Cono Este]

What kind of arrogant sob snubs the candidate that took half the vote from him. Oh yeah, Obama.

He'd have it locked had he chose Hillary. Idiot.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Idiot--or maybe just actually concerned with governing? Not that such a thing crossed McCain's mind.

[The AD]

You seriously find her attractive?

I do. I can find plenty about her not to like, but her looks aren't one of them!

[fez]

What kind of arrogant sob snubs the candidate that took half the vote from him. Oh yeah, Obama.

He'd have it locked had he chose Hillary. Idiot.

he would have improved his chances in the election, but he probably would have hurt his chances to have an effective presidency. mccain chose the vp he felt would help him win the election, obama chose the one he felt would help him govern.

[Jim J]

You seriously find her attractive? Get out more...maybe she's attractive to Alaskans where the male to female ratio is absurd.

I dig the cum shields. What can I say?

[From_the_NEK]

What kind of arrogant sob snubs the candidate that took half the vote from him. Oh yeah, Obama.

He'd have it locked had he chose Hillary. Idiot.

Couple of thoughts on why he didn't pick her:

Maybe he doesn't want the Clintons second guessing his every move?

Publicly he's forgiven her for a lot of mud slinging during the Primaries but privately that took a toll on them ever working well together?

Picking her would likely be a "Lock" for the election but would likely move the Obama ticket's platform in a direction away from where he desires it to go?

[Dexter Rutecki]

I dig the cum shields. What can I say?

Trying to decide if I want this explained to me......probably not?

[Tye 1on]

What kind of arrogant sob snubs the candidate that took half the vote from him. Oh yeah, Obama.

He'd have it locked had he chose Hillary. Idiot.

Oh, I get it, so really the only reason to choose a veep is for the election.

Or, maybe after both spent months trying to convince primary voters how the other is not fit for the nomination, that teaming up would be pretty much impossible? I doubt Hillary would have wanted the veep nomination. That's a bitter pill after coming really damn close to being the presidential nominee...

Back to the regularly scheduled Palin pokin...

[From_the_NEK]

he would have improved his chances in the election, but he probably would have hurt his chances to have an effective presidency. mccain chose the vp he felt would help him win the election, obama chose the one he felt would help him govern.

That is a good point as well.

[Jim J]

Trying to decide if I want this explained to me......probably not?

I think her glasses are sexy.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Capiche.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I dig the cum shields. What can I say?

True that could be fun...I don't know though...maybe it's the idea that fucking her would be like a hotdog down a hallway that turns me off...

[Tippster]

The truly impressive ramification of that "speech" is that any response in kind, from any quarter, be it Biden or Dem. Operatives, will be spun as a mean-spirited attack by a mysogynist poopyhead, regardless of truth or substance.

Amazing. The Republicans just do mudslinging better than the Democrats. They always have.

Jim S:

Frau Palin is proud of the fact that she is ignorant, like it's some fucking badge of honor. She is proud of the fact that she has only been to 4 states in the Union and to one foreign country: Canada. I had a President for the last 8 years who didn't have a passport until he became Governor. He was "proud" of his supposed folksiness as well, and I think he sucks ass.

[gorms]

Frau Palin is proud of the fact that she is ignorant, like it's some fucking badge of honor. She is proud of the fact that she has only been to 4 states in the Union and to one foreign country: Canada. I had a President for the last 8 years who didn't have a passport until he became Governor. He was "proud" of his supposed folksiness as well, and I think he sucks ass.

They referred to it last night on one of the networks as "regular talk"

People want a leader they can relate to...maybe grab a beer with or sumptin

kind of makes me sick...

[The AD]

Frau Palin is proud of the fact that she is ignorant, like it's some fucking badge of honor. She is proud of the fact that she has only been to 4 states in the Union and to one foreign country: Canada. I had a President for the last 8 years who didn't have a passport until he became Governor. He was "proud" of his supposed folksiness as well, and I think he sucks ass.

They definitely played up the whole "Aw shucks" angle. Obama is a slick urban elitist who doesn't really get anything done, while she's the homespun mother who, by God, makes things happen. It's probably a good angle. The Republicans aren't going to win the major metropolitan areas. Suburbia and rural American is their bailiwick.

[concretejungle]

The truly impressive ramification of that "speech" is that any response in kind, from any quarter, be it Biden or Dem. Operatives, will be spun as a mean-spirited attack by a mysogynist poopyhead, regardless of truth or substance.

Here you go Tippster.:D

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card

Sorry, I suck at embedding.

[fez]

Here you go Tippster.:D

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card

Sorry, I suck at embedding.

why is our most interesting news outlet a comedy show?

[From_the_NEK]

Frau Palin is proud of the fact that she is ignorant, like it's some fucking badge of honor. She is proud of the fact that she has only been to 4 states in the Union and to one foreign country: Canada. I had a President for the last 8 years who didn't have a passport until he became Governor. He was "proud" of his supposed folksiness as well, and I think he sucks ass.


Bush has visited every state except for Vermont. Clinton and Bush Sr both visited all 50 at least once during their terms. GW may not even realize it is a state/can't find it on a map? Or may he does realize Vermont is a state but has found out the there are a few VT towns that have passed legislation that would allow them to arrest him if he ever comes there.

[Buster Highmen]

why is our most interesting news outlet a comedy show?
Because American politics is just one big joke?

[x lurker]

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-09-02-images-sarahpalinbikini.jpg











photoshopped, but funny.

[From_the_NEK]

why is our most interesting news outlet a comedy show?

Because The Daily Show only has a half hour to present its to the point material that is aimed at uncovering hipocracy on both sides of the aisle. Unlike the 24/7 schedule of crap analysts spewing crap around the cable news waves. The cable news channels are all about ratings and whos crap is more appealing to the narrow minded viewers that they are trying to steal away from the other crap news channels. As most "aware" people probably realize, Fox News typically has the most crap flying about. It is all about appealing to Joe Smo American since it is usually louder and stupider (is that a word? :biggrin:). All of the cable news channels have way too much air time to fill and I can't take listening to them anymore (other than for occasional pure entertainment value).
I'd rather research topics myself than have some crap analysts telling me that I'm an idiot for not thinking like them. And of course continue to watch the Daily Show since it can actually glean a lot of useful information out of it once you sift through the satire.
Damn, I need my satellite dish back!

[The AD]

You do know that he literally cannot lift his arms any higher than he did, right?

No, I didn't. I just read about his tenure as a POW and it sounds pretty damn rough. I take it back, he's probably looked that stiff for the last 40 years, poor guy.

[x lurker]

The speech to nowhere:

http://www.truthout.org/article/palins-speech-nowhere

[Adolf Allerbush]

Probably a rerun but did anyone hear the MSNBC staff (of all republicans) tear apart Palin? I'll try to find a link.


Murphy: You know, because I come out of the blue swing state government work. Engler, Whitman, Thompson, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush. And these guys, this is all how you want to (inaudible) this race. You know, just run it up. And it’s not gonna work.
Noonan: It’s over.
Murphy: Still, McCain can give a version of the Lieberman speech to do himself some good.
Noonan: I saw Kay this morning
Todd: They’re all bummed out. I mean, is she really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?
Murphy: She’s never been comfortable.
Noonan: The most qualified? No. I think they went for this, excuse me, political bullshit about narratives and (inaudible) the picture.
Murphy: Yeah, but what’s the narrative?
Noonan: Every time the Republicans do that because that’s not where they live and it’s not what they’re good at and they blow it.
Murphy: You know what’s really the worst thing about it? The greatness of McCain is no cynicism
Todd: And as you called it gimmicky.

[Mani_UT]

They referred to it last night on one of the networks as "regular talk"
People want a leader they can relate to...maybe grab a beer with or sumptin
kind of makes me sick...


Yeah democracy might be a bad idea after all. A a minimum there should a licence to vote hard enough to get that 50% of the population fails the test.

[Mani_UT]

Probably a rerun but did anyone hear the MSNBC staff (of all republicans) tear apart Palin during her speech last night? I'll try to find a link.

Yeah fucking hilarious! :eek:

[BmillsSkier]

No way in hell ANY Hillary supporter votes republican come the election day (unless they were republican to begin with)

Didn't anyone ever teach you never to use abolutes; never, ever, any... when forming an argument. You're only setting yourself up for embarrasment. All anyone has to do is find one Clinton supporter that votes for McCain and you're wrong. Politico.com has the number of Clinton supporters not voting for Obama at ~30% right now. Lets see, she got what 18 million votes? So that's approximately 5.5 million voters that are planning on ditching the democrat ship?

By the way, if you're going to order egg, I'd suggest not asking to have it served on your face.


Probably three, in fact.
But that'll drop to zero as soon as they realize what Palin stands for.

The pissed off Hillary supporters will vote for Obama, like Hillary begged them to.
The pissed off Woman supporters might've ignored Hillary's request and stayed home - until McCain's "energizing" choice.

COOL DOUBLE POST!!!! FUCK YEAH!!!:yourock::yourock::yourock:


In no way, shape, or form will drilling in AK make us self-sufficient. It might only lower prices slightly...in about 10 years...

To become truly self sufficient, we need massive increases in fuel economy and a huge push for alternative sources of energy. Drilling in AK is a drop in the bucket.

So lets do nothing but check the air pressure in our tires and change our mindset to see that $4/gal gas is really a good thing?!? Rock on dude, I hear my car won't run on rainbows and unicorn farts, but I suppose that I can put a solar panel or sail on top in the meantime! :yourock:

This is actually a great strategy by liberals. Every time the right says we need to stop sending our cash to foreign oil, and supporting those who hate us (exactly what the op said) and start producing our own oil, libs say "but that wont help with the price of gas!"

But that wasn't the point was it? We need to stop buying foreign oil, thus we produce our own. No one said it would lower the price tomorrow.

We need to do it all. Drill, wind, solar, and NU-CLEAR (nice touch ABC news). We need the gas to get us through this transitional period until we can get hydrogen or electric to be economicaly viable and distributable. Digging our heels in the ground and saying "I'm Not Doing Anything!" doesn't help a damn thing. :nonono2:

[hutash]

Doesn't it bother any of you who think Palin is so wonderful that she is a book banner? Worse yet, that she tried to fire the librarian that opposed her?

Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with a person like this? Sure banning books in a backwards Alaskan town is no big deal, but it speaks volumes for the type of person she is.

Palin supporters can rest assured, if McCain were to drop her from the ticket, she would make a good secretary of the interior in a republican cabinet.:eek:

[Tippster]

B-Mills is the kind of guy who will crow about finding a fund that pays him 8% while holding Credit Card balances at 12%.

[ass-to-mouth]

True that could be fun...I don't know though...maybe it's the idea that fucking her would be like a hotdog down a hallway that turns me off...

i'm guessing most of her kids were delivered by c-section. so her pussy is probably still pretty tight.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Didn't anyone ever teach you never to use abolutes; never, ever, any... when forming an argument.

Never? Ever? Not any? You sure?



So lets do nothing but check the air pressure in our tires and change our mindset to see that $4/gal gas is really a good thing?!? Rock on dude, I hear my car won't run on rainbows and unicorn farts, but I suppose that I can put a solar panel or sail on top in the meantime! :yourock:

That's exactly what Obama's energy plan is! And you're right--it won't bring us the relief that drilling ANWAR and offshore will! We just need more drilling!

It's almost funny how the Republicans steadfastly opposed any move toward reducing our reliance on foreign oil for the past several decades, and now when it's biting us in the ass they try to dump the blame on the people who were smart enough to see reality coming.

Guy, stop digging yourself into the stupid hole. There isn't enough oil to be found down there.

[BmillsSkier]

B-Mills is the kind of guy who will crow about finding a fund that pays him 8% while holding Credit Card balances at 12%.

Sure thing Yellow Tail swiller; That analogy might work if I actually held card balances.

But you keep hoisting that sail up on your car dippster, in the meantime I need gas till someone puts a hydrogen station on the corner.

(short sighted dumbfuck.)

[Dexter Rutecki]

Sure thing Yellow Tail swiller; That analogy might work if I actually held card balances.

But you keep hoisting that sail up on your car dippster, in the meantime I need gas till someone puts a hydrogen station on the corner.

(short sighted dumbfuck.)

Whose energy policy has been shortsighted? For decades? Answer honestly, and then think about who the true dumbfuck is (rhymes with T hills skier).

[BmillsSkier]

Never? Ever? Not any? You sure?



That's exactly what Obama's energy plan is! And you're right--it won't bring us the relief that drilling ANWAR and offshore will! We just need more drilling!

It's almost funny how the Republicans steadfastly opposed any move toward reducing our reliance on foreign oil for the past several decades, and now when it's biting us in the ass they try to dump the blame on the people who were smart enough to see reality coming.

Guy, stop digging yourself into the stupid hole. There isn't enough oil to be found down there.

Normally I wouldn't respond to TGR's biggest dumbfuck but you really don't get my point.

I'm not blaming just one side. Last time I checked every presdient D or R has presided over increased dependence on foreign oil. Now think if one of them had initiated this plan to wean ourselves off foreign oil 10 years ago, or 20 years ago... We might not be funding the very people who plant bombs in Baghdad, or better yet, we might be getting our very own oil out of the north slope, or ocs by now or installing a new fucking nuclear plant... Just think if someone had been that visionary...

I don't want oil forever, but until we get hydrogen or electric cars up and running, my car ain't gonna run on Hope and Change (c).

Why keep sending our cash overseas when we can get our own right here?

But go ahead, keep digging your heels in the sand. You're like a fucking 5 year old who doesn't want to go to the doctor.

[David Witherspoon]

Gettin' awfully close to makin' a substantive argument, there. :eek:
Best be wary o' them fakchtuall claims - might end up hanging from your own rope like that other Republican luminary - Crud's Uncle. :biggrin:

[BmillsSkier]

Whose energy policy has been shortsighted? For decades? Answer honestly, and then think about who the true dumbfuck is (rhymes with T hills skier).

Really dumbfuck? I suppose you have limited your use of all things oil in your life for the last 10 years huh?

No car I bet?

No plastics use?

No fleece?

No pill casings?

Bought everything local I suppose, nothing ever brought to you on a truck?

Dont use rubber?



Newsflash kid, oil just isn't for cars. Now if you live the life I assume you preach, then more power to you, but in the meantime we still need the shit.

Now go sit in the corner with Cliff, you two are overdue for naptime.

[Bullet]

Doesn't it bother any of you who think Palin is so wonderful that she is a book banner? Worse yet, that she tried to fire the librarian that opposed her?

Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with a person like this? Sure banning books in a backwards Alaskan town is no big deal, but it speaks volumes for the type of person she is.

Palin supporters can rest assured, if McCain were to drop her from the ticket, she would make a good secretary of the interior in a republican cabinet.:eek:

Scares the hell out of me. Especially when she says:

"he's worried that someone won't read them their rights?" and is rewarded with roaring cheers.

More abuse of civil rights. More wiping of the ass with the constitution, more disregard for legal process, more creating distrust of law enforcement, more torture, more empowering abuse of power.....welcome to the McCain/Palin ticket.

Why is that scary? Accuse someone of working on a terrorist plot - anyone - especially your funny looking neighbor. Facts are not needed; just go with your gut. Watch as law enforcement whisk them away. Just pray no one accuses you of the same.

"So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause"

[Mani_UT]

Newsflash kid, oil just isn't for cars.


Newsflash kid.. Petroleum feedstocks are just noise in the global crude consumption... It's all about gazoline/diesel fuel/kerozene

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/petroleumproducts.html

[Dexter Rutecki]

Really dumbfuck? I suppose you have limited your use of all things oil in your life for the last 10 years huh?

No car I bet?

No plastics use?

No fleece?

No pill casings?

Bought everything local I suppose, nothing ever brought to you on a truck?

Dont use rubber?



Newsflash kid, oil just isn't for cars. Now if you live the life I assume you preach, then more power to you, but in the meantime we still need the shit.

Now go sit in the corner with Cliff, you two are overdue for naptime.

You're really too stupid for words. Are you seriously so dumb that you think alternatives to petroleum mean people living off the grid? Why can't you accept that there were people, for many years, advocating alternatives to our dependence on mideast oil, and your boys (with their extensive ties to the oil and gas companies, some of whom were themselves a part of those companies) didn't want to hear it?

What's wrong with you? Lots of lead paint in your Pepper Pike home?

Never mind. Just go back to yelling nonsense with Brett, Jer, and the other designated morons.

[BmillsSkier]

Newsflash kid.. Petroleum feedstocks are just noise in the global crude consumption... It's all about gazoline/diesel fuel/kerozene

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/petroleumproducts.html

First off: Shut the fuck up JONG!

Secondly, you're right, since gas and diesel and fuel is the main use for oil, we shouldn't pay attention to everything else we touch in the course of a day that wouldn't exist without it.

Nice try granola, you need oil as much as you need blood. Hope and Change (c) aren't gonna Change (c) that fact.

[Mani_UT]

First off: Shut the fuck up JONG!
.


Damn I am impressed... That's all you could come up with? I would be funny if it was not for the fact that fucktard like you can vote.

[Tippster]

Sure thing Yellow Tail swiller; That analogy might work if I actually held card balances.

But you keep hoisting that sail up on your car dippster, in the meantime I need gas till someone puts a hydrogen station on the corner.

(short sighted dumbfuck.)
Whooosh - right over your head.

Drilling in ANWR or offshore will save you ~$.06/gal in 5 years. Properly inflating your tires and maintaining your engine will save you ~$.06/gal RIGHT NOW.

[Big Balls]

Palin is one awesome shrill bitch! I can't wait until she slaps around Biden like a dominatrix!

I find it peculiar though that it's perfectly ok for the Democrat's PRESIDENTIAL nominee to have been a coke head yet it's a huge huge deal that the Republican's Vice Presidential nominee's HUSBAND to have had a DUI over two decades ago. Not too mention that it is somehow ok for a PRESIDENTIAL nominee to have just 2 years experience as Senator (who hasn't done anything) while it is not ok for a VICE Presidential nominee to only have 2 years experience as Govenor of the largest state in the US which borders two foreign countries and has a massive economy and who has done lots of stuff. The different standards in the media are amazing.

[Tippster]

.... has done lots of stuff...Elaborate.

[gonehuckin]

(sorry if its already been posted but)

Is this the kind of economic decisions we want her making"

"Palin talked about her cost-cutting measures as governor, saying "While I was at it, I got rid of a few things in the governor's office that I didn't believe our citizens should have to pay for. That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay."

Yes, searchers, it's true. She did, indeed, list the previous governor's Westwind II plane on the popular auction site—three times. But no buyer ever made the minimum bid. According to AskMen.com, she eventually sold the machine through a broker for a cool $2.1 mil, "at a loss of around half a million dollars.""

[BmillsSkier]

You're really too stupid for words. Are you seriously so dumb that you think alternatives to petroleum mean people living off the grid?

No, but the way you preach from that lofty soapbox, I naturally assumed that you lived in a straw hut. Try to get through your day without oil dipshit. Wouldn't it be nice if everything we need that uses oil was produced with our own oil?...while expanding wind, solar, nuclear...?


Why can't you accept that there were people, for many years, advocating alternatives to our dependence on mideast oil, and your boys (with their extensive ties to the oil and gas companies, some of whom were themselves a part of those companies) didn't want to hear it?

Do you even read what people say before you spew drivel? Read my post moron. I said it would have been great if someone would have started this effort a long time ago. I also said, reading comp. champ, that presidents from both parties have presided over the continued reliance on foreign fuel. Hell, Clinton flooded the market with cheap foreign oil, but he's YOUR boy so by your lofty reasoning that would make you equally as culpable.


What's wrong with you? Lots of lead paint in your Pepper Pike home?

Never mind. Just go back to yelling nonsense with Brett, Jer, and the other designated morons.

Oh I see, I'm not eco-core enough for you so I can't play huh? Too bad, keep on isolating those who you disagree with, that will solve the problem.

[BmillsSkier]

I would be funny if it was not for the fact that fucktard like you can vote.

Don't sell yourself short granola, you're very funny.

[BmillsSkier]

Whooosh - right over your head.

Drilling in ANWR or offshore will save you ~$.06/gal in 5 years. Properly inflating your tires and maintaining your engine will save you ~$.06/gal RIGHT NOW.

Oh no box wine connesseur, I got it. But once again, AND DAMN YOU FAIL TO GET IT, the argument was not lower gas prices, it was weaning ourselves off foreign fuel.

[Dexter Rutecki]

No, but the way you preach from that lofty soapbox, I naturally assumed that you lived in a straw hut. Try to get through your day without oil dipshit. Wouldn't it be nice if everything we need that uses oil was produced with our own oil?...while expanding wind, solar, nuclear...?

That would be nice! You just solved all the problems!!




WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU??? ENGLISH, MOTHERFUCKER!!!

It doesn't matter how eco-core any one person is, moron. I never insinuated anything about you and what you do to conserve because it doesn't make any fucking difference. Nor does it matter that Clinton was in office when the oil-lobby killed proposals to reduce foreign oil consumption in the 90's, dumbfuck.


Goddamn, this is like conversing with a mentally handicapped third grader. Fucking useless. No point.

[H-wood]

Last time I checked every presdient D or R has presided over increased dependence on foreign oil. Now think if one of them had initiated this plan to wean ourselves off foreign oil 10 years ago, or 20 years ago... We might not be funding the very people who plant bombs in Baghdad, or better yet, we might be getting our very own oil out of the north slope, or ocs by now or installing a new fucking nuclear plant... Just think if someone had been that visionary...

Actually Carter enacted a plan to subsidize and give tax breaks for alternative energy- in the 70's when there was an energy crisis due to excessive dependence on foreign oil. That was thrown out by the Reagan administration.

History: learn it.

[The AD]

I find it peculiar though that it's perfectly ok for the Democrat's PRESIDENTIAL nominee to have been a coke head yet it's a huge huge deal that the Republican's Vice Presidential nominee's HUSBAND to have had a DUI over two decades ago.

Um, where exactly is this a huge deal? This is the first I've ever heard of it. Yeah, I'm sure it's been reported, but what trivial, muck-raking fact hasn't been?

[From_the_NEK]

Um, where exactly is this a huge deal? This is the first I've ever heard of it. Yeah, I'm sure it's been reported, but what trivial, muck-raking fact hasn't been?

+1

345678

[Tye 1on]

imho moving away from foreign fuel is an outstanding goal, for many reasons. I just don't get why it keeps coming back to drilling in one little place, or conservation, like those are the only two options. I'd be a lot more impressed if either side could just lay out a comprehensive plan to get us on our own oil feet. It would have to be a combination of demand side and supply side actions. Hell, any of y'all blathering on about the drilling BS do more planning and cost/benefit analyzing on one single powder run than we've heard from either side on energy...

[natty dread]

Funny how schindler, for the squillionth time, is rah rah GOP, then when called on it, claims neutrality.
The Dems smear more than the repubs--YEAH RIGHT!
And your logic on drilling--oh yeah, what logic? Hard to believe you were an attorney.
my biased opinion--palin is a bible-thumping, hypocritical, rove-playbooking, book-banning, no sex educating, lowest common denominator rallying, fear mongering, power-abusing fucktard. Which, based on the recent track record of the voters, means her ticket will probably win.

[BmillsSkier]

That would be nice! You just solved all the problems!!

Good to know you support the "All of the Above" plan.





WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU??? ENGLISH, MOTHERFUCKER!!!

Um, you missed a bit of foam on your mouth there... that's it right in the corner. You may want to sit down for a bit.


It doesn't matter how eco-core any one person is, moron. I never insinuated anything about you and what you do to conserve because it doesn't make any fucking difference. Nor does it matter that Clinton was in office when the oil-lobby killed proposals to reduce foreign oil consumption in the 90's, dumbfuck.

But you said it was my boys who solely caused America to be on the tit of foreign oil! But now it doesn't matter if your guy helped? You just wipe your hands? You make no fucking sense when you speak out of both sides of your mouth kid.



Goddamn, this is like conversing with a mentally handicapped third grader. Fucking useless. No point.

Tell me about it. You should read your posts. The way you shift arguments mid-sentence and post to post really casts doubt on your mental abilities. Quite sad really.

[Big Balls]

Hmmm, gives me pause to think....... The Democrats are still fucking pussies though.


http://www.crosscut.com/politics-government/17341

About Sarah Palin: an e-mail from Wasilla

A suburban Anchorage homemaker and activist — who once did battle with the Alaska governor when Palin was mayor — recounts what she knows of Palin's history.
By Anne Kilkenny (http://www.crosscut.com/authors/anne-kilkenny/)
Editor's note: The writer is a homemaker and education advocate in Wasilla, Alaska. Late last week, Anne Kilkenny penned an e-mail for her friends about vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, whom she personally knows, that has since circulated across comment forums and blogs nationwide. Here is her e-mail in its entirety, posted with her permission.
I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Gov. Sarah Palin since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first-name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99 percent of the residents of the city.
She is enormously popular; in every way she's like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice for vice president and won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because she is a "babe."
It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months.
She is "pro-life." She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby. There is no cover-up involved here; Trig is her baby.
She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.
She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.
Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin's kind of job is highly sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her lifestyle ever been anything like that of native Alaskans.
Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.
She's smart.
Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time) and less than two years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents.
During her mayoral administration, most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings, which had given rise to a recall campaign.
Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative." During her six years as mayor, she increased general government expenditures by more than 33 percent. During those same six years, the amount of taxes collected by the city increased by 38 percent. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax, which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefitted large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.
The huge increases in tax revenue during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list, though — borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt but left it with indebtedness of more than $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? Or a new library? No. $1 million for a park. $15 million-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex, which she rushed through, on a piece of property that the city didn't even have clear title to. That was still in litigation seven years later — to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5 million for road projects that could have been done in five to seven years without any borrowing.
While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once.
These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.
As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as governor Sarah proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state.
In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenue: Spend today's surplus, borrow for needs.
She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits but on the basis of who proposed them.
While Sarah was mayor of Wasilla, she tried to fire our highly respected city librarian because the librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the city librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the librarian are on her enemies list to this day.
Sarah complained about the "old boy's club" when she first ran for mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys." Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the city and as governor, she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal — loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the state's top cop.
As mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla's police chief because he "intimidated" her, she told the press. As governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't fire her sister's ex-husband, a state trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than two dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.
She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town, introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal city administrator; even people who didn't like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.
Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her.
When then-Gov. Frank Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the best, chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission — one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil and gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job, which paid $122,400 a year, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this commission (who was also the state chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the "old boys' club," when she dramatically quit, exposing this man's ethics violations (for which he was fined).

[BmillsSkier]

Actually Carter enacted a plan to subsidize and give tax breaks for alternative energy- in the 70's when there was an energy crisis due to excessive dependence on foreign oil. That was thrown out by the Reagan administration.

History: learn it.

That's great, and parts of that plan could have been saved and enforced. No argument here. It's not the planning that is so hard for elected officals, its the holding themselves to the plan that seems to be very difficult.

[schindlerpiste]

Natty Head: 85% more likely to vote GOP than Dem. That's not neutral...atleast today. I claim to be a guy who will listen to the candidates until the end, before deciding one way, or another. Also, I assert that this is a better mindset than a lot of the "I'm voting Dem[or Rep] because that is what my voter ID says.

And to that strong of an opinion about Palin, you must know a lot about her, and have done so for a long time.

[Big Balls]

Thanks Fez. That sounded very informing and unbiased.


As mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Sen. Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.
As governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects — which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance — but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as "anti-pork."
She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The state party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.
Around Wasilla, there are people who went to high school with Sarah. They call her "Sarah Barracuda" because of her unbridled ambition and predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah's mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and experienced manager, ran for mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.
As governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of legislation known as "AGIA" that forced the oil companies to march to the beat of her drum.
Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She campaigned "as a private citizen" against a state initiaitive that would have either protected salmon streams from pollution from mines or tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on whom you listen to). She has pushed the state's lawsuit against the Department of the Interior's decision to list polar bears as a threatened species.
McCain is the oldest person to ever run for president; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being president.
There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she.
However, there are a lot of people who have underestimated her and are regretting it.
Claim vs. Fact



"Hockey mom": True for a few years
"PTA mom": True years ago when her first-born was in elementary school, not since
"NRA supporter": Absolutely true
Social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, but vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconsitutional).
Pro-creationism: Mixed. Supports it, but did nothing as governor to promote it.
"Pro-life": Mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby but declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation.
"Experienced": Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000.
Political maverick: Not at all.
Gutsy: Absolutely!
Open and transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions.
Has a developed philosophy of public policy: No.
"A Greenie": No. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
Fiscal conservative: Not by my definition!
Pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th century standards.
Pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on residents
Pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in Wasilla's history.
Pro-labor/pro-union: No. Just because her husband works union doesn't make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union.

Why am I writing this?

First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting programs in the schools. If you google my name, you will find references to my participation in local government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.
Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "bad things happen when good people stay silent." Few people know as much as I do because few have gone to as many City Council meetings.
Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out of. I don't belong to any organization that she can hurt. But I am no fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will cost me somehow in the future: that's life.
Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100 or so people who rallied to support the city librarian against Sarah's attempt at censorship.
Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.
Caveats: I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in spending and taxation two years ago (when Palin was running for governor) from information supplied to me by the finance director of the City of Wasilla, and I can't recall exactly what I adjusted for: Did I adjust for inflation? For population increases? Right now, it is impossible for a private person to get any info out of City Hall — they are swamped. So I can't verify my numbers.
You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000" up to 9,000. The day Palin's selection was announced, a city official told me that the current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-1990s.


Anne Kilkenny is a homemaker and education advocate in Wasilla, Alaska.

[Dhelihiker]

I nominate Fez TGR political advisor!



I think McCain nocked up the daughter when he met the family 6 months ago. Go home Levi, its not yours.

[Tippster]

...Yellow Tail swiller...


...box wine connesseur....

I think you have me confused with someone else. It's OK, since you cannot seem to remember the last 7.5 years either.

[MarsB]

I find it peculiar though that it's perfectly ok for the Democrat's PRESIDENTIAL nominee to have been a coke head yet it's a huge huge deal that the Republican's Vice Presidential nominee's HUSBAND to have had a DUI over two decades ago.....

Cokehead? DUIs? That's sooo 2000. I thought we were leaving GW (and Cheney, the other half of the DUI presidential ticket) out of this one.

So Obama was a cokehead? I guess I didn't get that email; must not be on Swiftboat's mailing list. Admitting to youthful drug use in your autobiography is refreshingly candid after GWB's 'no comment' stance about his blow and booze 'dalliance'.

[H-wood]

That's great, and parts of that plan could have been saved and enforced. No argument here. It's not the planning that is so hard for elected officals, its the holding themselves to the plan that seems to be very difficult.

The point was A) that you were arguing by making shit up,

and B) that a Democrat actually made a move toward energy independence, and that effort was killed in exchange for the policies which have left us where we're at now- minimal incentives for alternative energy development, maximal resistance to tightening EPA standards, tax breaks for gas-guzzling vehicles, private presidential meetings with energy companies, insanely expensive mid-east military adventures...

While you can blame all this stuff on those dang old corrupt elected officials, it's worth noting that the elected officials in this case are Republicans, pursuing goals that they have explicitly championed, usually while treating alternative energy as some kind of new-age fluff and needless environmental destruction as trivial.

[hutash]

Why are people even discussing the energy issue? Both side clearly state they want to become independent on foreign oil through, conservation, wind, new clear, et.al., and have plans, that while different in detail have similar goals.

Now if you want to argue on the environment, then "Drill, Baby Drill" just about sums up the republican policy.

Why haven't we heard more from McCain on waterboarding and all of its related BS? Here is something that his experience in Hanoi should really speak to. Is the Maverick too afraid to buck the party line? Some maverick!!!

I am usually not one to put much store in national conventions, but this one is really pushing some buttons, and if McCain doesn't produce to night he will lose a lot of moderate voters like moi. And not just the usual republican rhetoric. If he truly is the maverick he claims to be, he better show it tonight, and tell the GOP to fuck off. ( his pick of Palin, the GOP poster child, will make that unlikely.)

[natty dread]

I claim to be a guy who will listen to the candidates until the end, before deciding one way, or another.

And the point of my post is that your above claim is false, based on this and a multitude of your previous political posts, whether you excitedly post about palin "kicking ass" with her right wing drivel or cut n paste a climate change "controversy" article. You've already decided. Which is fine. What I find funny is how you consistently deny it.


And to that strong of an opinion about Palin, you must know a lot about her, and have done so for a long time.

It didn't take more than a few hours of reading to know what I know about her. Yes I do have strong opinions about book-banning in public libraries, a public official stating that the Iraq war is God's work, drilldrilldrill as the main solution to our energy woes and sex education being abstinence-only--do you?

[gonzo]

was just going to post that letter - saw you got it here already. i thought it was interesting.

[schindlerpiste]

And the point of my post is that your above claim is false, based on this and a multitude of your previous political posts, whether you excitedly post about palin "kicking ass" with her right wing drivel or cut n paste a climate change "controversy" article. You've already decided. Which is fine. What I find funny is how you consistently deny it.



It didn't take more than a few hours of reading to know what I know about her. Yes I do have strong opinions about book-banning in public libraries, a public official stating that the Iraq war is God's work, drilldrilldrill as the main solution to our energy woes and sex education being abstinence-only--do you?

Palin did kick ass. Atleast, that's the general consensus. Believe what you want about me. You don't know me at all, and this is the interweb. I maintain that if McCain totally blows it tonight, or during the upcomming debates, I reserve the right to side with the lesser of two incompetents.

My general feeling about Obama is that no one even heard of him prior to his speech at the'04 convention. He has done nothing as a freshman senator, and this country could have done better. If he didn't speak like MLK, he would not have even been the party's choice. Biden, OTOH, is already a proven loser dating back to 1988.

BTW, wasn't Joe Biden the major proponent of the Kerry/McCain ticket? WTF???

[concretejungle]

BTW, wasn't Joe Biden the major proponent of the Kerry/McCain ticket? WTF???

Maybe but if you can't recognize the difference between the John McCain four years ago and today (including choosing a religious book banning nut job VP) then you need to read up on your Presidential candidates.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Palin did kick ass. Atleast, that's the general consensus.

You can post this all you like but without a source it doesn't mean shit.

[Jer]

How do you link to your personal opinion?

Just threw some 916's on my Praxiis. Radness beyond rad.:yourock:

[schindlerpiste]

Even the Dems were impressed.:

From CBS News' Maria Gavrilovic:

(HARRISBURG, PA.) Barack Obama campaign senior adviser David Axelrod stepped up criticism of Sarah Palin’s convention speech by suggesting that she's playing political games.

“She’s a skilled politician as she proved last night,” Axelrod said this morning.

“For someone who makes the point that she’s not from Washington, she looks very much like she’d fit in very well there.”

Axelrod disputed the facts of Palin’s speech, and said that her slight of Obama’s work as a community organizer does not concern the campaign.

“Frankly I think it was lost on a lot of people,” Axelrod said adding that the campaign will not respond to Palin’s attacks any differently because she is a woman. “On blatant distortions of fact, we’re more than happy to respond to her or anyone.”

The consensus within the Obama camp appears to that Palin accomplished what she needed to last night and that she excited the Republican base, but going forward, they haven’t quite figured out if she is the game-changer in this election.

[Adolf Allerbush]

How do you link to your personal opinion?

Just threw some 916's on my Praxiis. Radness beyond rad.:yourock:

I don't know maybe post a link to something that you've written...but why would I do that?

Besides, if you really mean how would he give a source to back up his claim that the "general concensus" is that Palin "kicked ass" as being his personal opinion...then I don't think you understand what is mean't by "general concensus". It implies that the majority of Americans in the context he used it in.

Finally, you can always count on Jer to come to the resue of one of his little friends.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Even the Dems were impressed.:

From CBS News' Maria Gavrilovic:

(HARRISBURG, PA.) Barack Obama campaign senior adviser David Axelrod stepped up criticism of Sarah Palin’s convention speech by suggesting that she's playing political games.

“She’s a skilled politician as she proved last night,” Axelrod said this morning.

“For someone who makes the point that she’s not from Washington, she looks very much like she’d fit in very well there.”

Axelrod disputed the facts of Palin’s speech, and said that her slight of Obama’s work as a community organizer does not concern the campaign.

“Frankly I think it was lost on a lot of people,” Axelrod said adding that the campaign will not respond to Palin’s attacks any differently because she is a woman. “On blatant distortions of fact, we’re more than happy to respond to her or anyone.”

The consensus within the Obama camp appears to that Palin accomplished what she needed to last night and that she excited the Republican base, but going forward, they haven’t quite figured out if she is the game-changer in this election.

Not to beat a dead horse but she did a decent job at reading the teleprompter and delivered a speach written for a man weeks ago before they decided to go all wacked out and choose a book banning pro-life bible thumping psychobitch from BFE AK. I'm still not sold on the "general concensus" of Americans agreeing with her "kicking ass" last night.

[Jer]

I don't know maybe blah, blah, blah, blah..................

Yeah that's great. Get back to me on November 5th. I'll even post some links.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Yeah that's great. Get back to me on November 5th. I'll even post some links.

Leave me your email since I saw you found some takers for your bet.

[Jer]

Leave me your email since I saw you found some takers for your bet.

I noticed you pussed out again.




:confused:

[schindlerpiste]

You asked for a citation; I gave you one. Everyone who I have spoken to was impressed by her. CnBC correspondents gave her accolades. FOX, well, FOX is FOX.

Look, I have doubts about her. One of my biggest concerns is that I have no confidence in her running the country, if something happens to McCain in 2 years. Hell, right now, I don't have much confidence in McCain running the country. But, I guess, my biggest problem is that I have no confidence in Obama, either. I think the Dems. missed their best shot by not giving Hillary the nod (not that I'm a fan of Clintonism, either).

[Helldawg]

Good shit!!!

I'm waving the flag 2 months in advance...McCain/Palin is the ticket. Osama is outie, yo.

[Adolf Allerbush]

You asked for a citation; I gave you one. Everyone who I have spoken to was impressed by her. CnBC correspondents gave her accolades. FOX, wel, FOX is FOX.

Look, I have doubts about her. One of my biggest concerns is that I have no confidence in her running the country, if something happens to McCain in 2 years. Hell, right now, I don't have much confidence in McCain running the country. But, I guess, my biggest problem is that I have no confidence in Obama, either. I think the Dems. missed their best shot by not giving Hillary the nod (not that I'm a fan of Clintonism, either).

That's fine that they're impressed by her but by saying the "general concensus" is that she kicked ass that's not really being accurate. The talking heads you're listening too are telling you she kicked ass. That's debatable and will not be known for certain till the election. That's all I'm saying. You think she kicked ass...which is fine...she did a lot better than I thought she would.

HRC vs BO with regards to experience has been played out...they're both about equal on that...one having more state senator experience and the other having slightly more US senate experience..and with regards to experience as POTUS no one running has that...but I hear you...it uncharted waters hombre...should be interesting... hopefully not GWB lack of experience interesting with whoever ends up getting the nod for POTUS...which is why I won't be voting for McCain/Palin...IMO you're going to have more of the same if you vote for another GOP politician.

[Jer]

Hey Assbush - here's another poster for your wall. Maybe you can put this one over your bed:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee278/jer123456789/100_0514.jpg

[neck beard]

The speech to nowhere:

http://www.truthout.org/article/palins-speech-nowhere

Worth reading

[neck beard]

--palin is a bible-thumping, hypocritical, rove-playbooking, book-banning, no sex educating, lowest common denominator rallying, fear mongering, power-abusing fucktard. Which, based on the recent track record of the voters, means her ticket will probably win.

For the love of intelligent governance of free people, this can never happen. Out of respect for all the educated and reasoned thinking Statesmen and women in America, this can never happen.

Its ok to be a R supporter, but its inexcusable to wash your nations credibility and long history of proud Government down the tube with the selection of Palin. Please see past the polical ploy and strategy to win and think about the credibility of the United States with her so close to the helm.

Obama’s qualifications to run were questionable. But he has proven himself a professional, intelligent and respectful candidate who deserves to have a shot – and he deserves to lose to a far greater R candidate. Greater in the true sense. McCain was never going to be far greater a quality candidate than Obama, so Obama suddenly had a shot that he probably was a decade too junior for. But now, McCain will likely take himself into office thanks to the idiot vote garnered by the Palin disgrace.

Any thinking calm person, R or D, can see that this Palin farce just is not the way it should be.

[Dantheman]

Look, I have doubts about her. One of my biggest concerns is that I have no confidence in her running the country, if something happens to McCain in 2 years. Hell, right now, I don't have much confidence in McCain running the country. But, I guess, my biggest problem is that I have no confidence in Obama, either. I think the Dems. missed their best shot by not giving Hillary the nod (not that I'm a fan of Clintonism, either).

Your biggest concern is a vague lack of confidence? Please watch the youtube vid of her addressing her church in Wasilla (recently, as governor). She said, quite explicitly, that the gas pipeline she is championing is ordained by God and asked the congregation to pray for it, that we are doing God's work fighting in Iraq, that she has received prophecies from God foretelling a grand destiny for Alaska in general and the residents of Wasilla specifically, and she gave a resounding amen to a church leader's statement that he believed Alaska would be a "refuge state" during the end of days with hundreds of thousands of people flooding into the state to escape the rapture. Just hearing her talking without a national media-filter is astonishing, she's as whiskey tango as they come.

And then there is the whole booking banning thing, supporting teaching creationism in science classes, firing public officials because for personal reasons and blatantly lying about supporting the bridge-to-nowhere.

Say what you will about Obama, but his policies and decision making are rooted firmly in reality and not this evangelical insanity. Despite our ideological differences, we've talked enough for me to see that you are an intelligent and reasonable person Carmen, I find it hard to believe that you can really see Obama and Palin as essentially equivalent in their ability to lead the country.

[smitchell333]

What exactly does the VP do?

006axc2aELE

[schindlerpiste]

Dan, thanks for the post. Let's be clear, I think that Obama is 1000X more competent to lead the nation than Palin. Frankly, I never heard of her prior to the selection. I'm not saying that she is anything special. WHat I am saying is that there are a lot of naive, an uneducated people in this country who have, and will, eat up what she did last night. 40,000,000 heard her speak about interests that are very common themes in a lot of their lives.
I agree with Hohes that Obama may be competent, but he just does not have the experience. " so Obama suddenly had a shot that he probably was a decade too junior for." This spring, people were consumed by his eloquence. IMO, this may prove to be a fatal mistake. Don't forget, no one knew Obama before 2004. He delivered a great speech at the 2004 DNC. That was his introduction to America. I still think that many women will be drawn to the GOP ticket because of what (not who) Sarah Palin is. It reminds me of many of my Jewish friends who thought that Lieberman being selected as Gore's runningmate was the best thing since Moses delivered the palates with the 10 commandments written on them.

Palin is not competent to run the country, make no mistake; I'm just not sure whether Obama is either.

[axebiker]

Let's be clear, I think that Obama is 1000X more competent to lead the nation than Palin...



...Palin is not competent to run the country, make no mistake; I'm just not sure whether Obama is either.

Huh?? :confused:

You kinda counter yourself too... 1000x more competent? Just as likely to fuck it up though.

Either way, we're dealing with newbs. I'd rather have one who isn't coming down from the heavens to part my checkbook.

[schindlerpiste]

Obama is trying to be the top dog; Palin #2. We must juxtapose McCain and Obama, and we must juxtapose Palin to Biden. There is no contradiction in my mind. Compare apples to apples. I just weight McCain's #2 as a bit more important than Obama's, because of the age difference. I haven't addressed Biden. To me, he has now and always, his own agenda up front... nothing more. Atleast we know what we are getting with biggotted Joe. Who do you think would be a more competent leader, Palin or Biden? Now, that's the $6,000,000 question.

Biden = 5 draft deferments; least wealthy senator; chairman of the confirmation hearings of Bork and Thomas; loses temper and call "Bullshit" in Congress; plagiarized a speech; received an "F" in law school, but told people that he graduated in the top 1/2 of his class (really 75/85);advocated McCain for VP.

My point is that Biden, like Palin, raises questions. No one is perfect......not even me

[axebiker]

Obama is trying to be the top dog; Palin #2. We must juxtapose McCain and Obama, and we must juxtapose Palin to Biden. There is no contradiction in my mind. Compare apples to apples. I just weight McCain's #2 as a bit more important than Obama's, because of the age difference. I haven't addressed Biden. To me, he has now and always, his own agenda up front... nothing more. Atleast we know what we are getting with biggotted Joe. Who do you think would be a more competent leader, Palin or Biden? Now, that's the $6,000,000 question.

Gotcha. We're relatively close on this. I do get tired of the comparisons of Palin/Obama. They aren't running against each other. It's JM & BO. The sooner that is realized, the better we'll be and we can get on with this.

Biden is the anti-change.

[David Witherspoon]

Did you watch the video that Blurred posted? Doublefunny.



The last poll results I saw put that number around 35%.
That poll was in your dreams. Post the link or shut up already.
I wouldn't believe you if you said the last poll you saw had numbers in it.

[natty dread]

Who do you think would be a more competent leader, Palin or Biden? Now, that's the $6,000,000 question.


The fact that this is even a question to you, let alone "THE $6 mil question," yet again betrays your bias--and your blindness.

Sure there will be questionable things in any candidate's past--but of course not all those questionable things are equivalent in their severity. The fact that you even attempt to juxtapose biden's and palin's questionable attributes is astonishing to me. Have you done any research on palin? Have you watched the videos that Dan referred to?

[splat]

The networks should be interviewing fez.
That's the info they're all scrambling for.
Ya hear that, Tipp?

[ANON-505]

(1)Now, that's the $6,000,000 question.

(2) Biden =.... least wealthy senator; ....; loses temper and call "Bullshit" in Congress; received an "F" in law school, but told people that he graduated in the top 1/2 of his class (really 75/85);.....


(1)THAT'S the $6,000,000 question? wtf? Biden is a brizillion times more compentent to do any single presidential task than PAlIN. That shouldn't be a question at all.

(2)If those were qualities describing Palin all the conservatives would be touting them as charming character traits. bullshit.

[Rubicon]

That poll was in your dreams. Post the link or shut up already.
I wouldn't believe you if you said the last poll you saw had numbers in it.

This fiddle is getting played. If I told you I took a shit yesterday would you demand a link? Do your own research sometime would ya?






















I don't have the gumption to go back and find the specific poll I saw but a quick google search turned up this:



By JONATHAN MARTIN | 8/25/08 7:50 AM EST Updated: 8/25/08 11:27 AM EST
"A Wall Street Journal/NBC poll released last week made plain why Republicans are trying to play up divisions. According to the survey, 21 percent of Clinton supporters are supporting McCain and that another 27 percent are still holding out."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12791.html

This poll is two weeks out of date. The one I saw has the % a little higher. But still, with the electoral college ~20% of 18mil could be significant if it is a squeeker.[/spoonfeeding]

[Cosmic Suncloud]

GDP in Billions

Califoirna $2150 ------> Mexico $1300 ------> Detriot $203 ------> Alaska $29

[David Witherspoon]

Do your own research sometime would ya? Funneh. Do some for a change.


I don't have the gumption to go back and find the specific poll I saw but a quick google search turned up this:Find some gumption or shut up about it. "I thought I saw a poll ..." ain't worth jack even in an asshattery forum.



By JONATHAN MARTIN | 8/25/08 7:50 AM EST Updated: 8/25/08 11:27 AM EST
"A Wall Street Journal/NBC poll released last week made plain why Republicans are trying to play up divisions. According to the survey, 21 percent of Clinton supporters are supporting McCain and that another 27 percent are still holding out."That's better. Drop any claim you can't substantiate, it ain't worth makin'. Even if it means you gotta drop the claim a coupla notches, at least you got something.

I'm sure McCain's overlords are hoping there are a lot of women who are genuinely dumb enough to vote for anything with ovaries. Who knows, it mighta had a chance - two weeks ago.

But two weeks ago, the McCain ticket wasn't carrying a woman who so starkly represents everything Hillary was against.

Inquiring minds - unlike yours - want to know:
What do those polls look like now?

The first national polls on John McCain's pick of Sarah Palin yesterday came out today from Rasmussen and Gallup -- and contrary to what the GOP probably hoped, she scored less well with women than men.

Here's a finding from Gallup: Among Democratic women -- including those who may be disappointed that Hillary Clinton did not win the Democratic nomination -- 9% say Palin makes them more likely to support McCain, 15% less likely.
link (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003844485)
Men like Palin more than women do. Not a good sign for that Republican fiddle player.


Much attention was given to the fact that only 47% of former Clinton supporters said they were certain to vote for Obama in the pre-convention USA Today/Gallup poll, and that 16% of these voters said they were going to vote for McCain, with another 14% undecided.

The new polling shows that many of these disaffected Clinton voters have now returned to the loyal Democratic fold. The percentage of former Clinton voters who say they are certain to vote for Obama has now jumped to 65%. Although 12% of former Clinton voters persist in saying that they are going to vote for McCain, that's down from 16%, and the percentage who are undecided has dropped in half.

Overall, support for Obama among this group has moved from 70% pre-convention to 81% post-convention.
link (http://www.gallup.com/poll/109957/Obama-Gains-Among-Former-Clinton-Supporters.aspx)
So much for that strategy.

And nowhere in any of this is a number or a statement like your claim that

"there is a sizable number who will not vote for Obama because they feel like Hillary got shafted. The last poll results I saw put that number around 35%."
Looks like RootSkier was right in calling your shit shit.

The best you got is 21% of Hillary supporters, now down to 12%.

But hey - what's a 14% error among friends? ...
psst, I got an investment deal for you, you'll love the rate of return.

[schindlerpiste]

Natty is one of the reasons why I can't stand a lot of Dems. No, I haven't read up on Palin. I usually don't pass judgment on a person within a day, ot 2. OTOH, I know Joe Biden. IMHO, he is the lowest of the low. I wouldn't want him at the helm for 5 mins. He has proven to be a liar, a deceiver, a selfserving hypoctie and a biggit.

This morning, I wake up, still with doubts, and questions, but almost certain that I will be backing McCain.

Natty, thank you. It's people like you who make me realize that angry Dems. are too zealous to solve this country's problems

[Buster Highmen]

Natty is one of the reasons why I can't stand a lot of Dems. No, I haven't read up on Palin. I usually don't pass judgment on a person within a day, ot 2. OTOH, I know Joe Biden. IMHO, he is the lowest of the low. I wouldn't want him at the helm for 5 mins. He has proven to be a liar, a deceiver, a selfserving hypoctie and a biggit.

This morning, I wake up, still with doubts, and questions, but almost certain that I will be backing McCain.

Natty, thank you. It's people like you who make me realize that angry Dems. are too zealous to solve this country's problems

Sweet personal attack there piste. Let me say that Natty is one right on d00d: generous, helps his friends and down to earth. Finish that with the question of how many magnions actually hold a political office ?

Personally, I'm amazed at the Palin selection. Pandering to the religious right. Smart? Appeals to regular folks? What??? We're on different planets.

[concretejungle]

and a biggit.

Like when you called someone a camel jockey or whatever it was because gas is too spendy in Park City? Can't find the post, sorry. :rolleyes2

[schindlerpiste]

It's not about me. I am not running for office. The fact that I was the victim of not one, but 2 terrorist attacks (both suicide attacks) orchestrated by these fuckers has nothing to do with my choice of words.:cussing::the_finge:mad:

[Buster Highmen]

It's not about me. I am not running for office. The fact that I was the victim of not one, but 2 terrorist attacks (both suicide attacks) orchestrated by these fuckers has nothing to do with my choice of words.:cussing::the_finge:mad:

Oh, so now you're not responsible for the shit yout type. Great.

Consider why those terrorist attacks occurrred. What a wonderful country Saudi Arabia is. And gee, we did give Saddam the stuff he used on the Kurds. Name a mideastern zealot that wasn't supported by the US at one time.

[Crud's Uncle]

Let see, talk about mud. Palin 17 year old is attacked, Palin is attacked for her hairdo, she is photoshopped on porn actresses bodies, she is accused of being a bad parent. Her experience as a mayor and Governor is belittled.

Looks like it is the pot calling the kettle black.
The truly impressive ramification of that "speech" is that any response in kind, from any quarter, be it Biden or Dem. Operatives, will be spun as a mean-spirited attack by a mysogynist poopyhead, regardless of truth or substance.

Amazing. The Republicans just do mudslinging better than the Democrats. They always have.

Jim S:

Frau Palin is proud of the fact that she is ignorant, like it's some fucking badge of honor. She is proud of the fact that she has only been to 4 states in the Union and to one foreign country: Canada. I had a President for the last 8 years who didn't have a passport until he became Governor. He was "proud" of his supposed folksiness as well, and I think he sucks ass.

[schindlerpiste]

Oh, so now you're not responsible for the shit yout type. Great.

Consider why those terrorist attacks occurrred. What a wonderful country Saudi Arabia is. And gee, we did give Saddam the stuff he used on the Kurds. Name a mideastern zealot that wasn't supported by the US at one time.
Natty may be a good person, but in my opinion he has made false statements about me, and has attacked me personally. To me, that is uncalled for...even here.
I am responsible for what I type, and I have no regrets about using the term "camel jockey". Certainly, I do not hate all people from the mid-east. It's a term with no more weight than JONG, or Yankee' or Ami; or Frog. Actually, I use it with a grain of salt.

[lemon boy]

schindler- here's a hint for you: when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

right now you're a headin for china and the olympics, they is over.

[schindlerpiste]

OoooooooooooooKay


And thanks for the advise.

[smitchell333]

Let see, talk about mud. Palin 17 year old is attacked, Palin is attacked for her hairdo, she is photoshopped on porn actresses bodies, she is accused of being a bad parent. Her experience as a mayor and Governor is belittled.
.

Should we call you and Palin a WAHHHmbulance?

[schindlerpiste]

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/966/n10497159181358618060om2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Can she really be all that bad?

[Dirty Hoar]

Can she really be all that bad?

Don't you think we can do better?

[Buster Highmen]

Before the Republican convention, experience was derided and 'change' was lampooned.

Now 'change' is the battle cry of the party that has controlled the white house for 8 years and congress for 5? Moreover inexperience is now good enough for a vp that has the best chance of taking over the POTUS of any in recent memory.

Flaubert wrote this, right? Or was it Kafka?

[PNWbrit]

The fact that I was the victim of not one, but 2 terrorist attacks (both suicide attacks) orchestrated by these fuckers has nothing to do with my choice of words.:cussing::the_finge:mad:

Hey, I got knocked off my feet by the blast from an IRA bomb in London. Knew three people who were killed by similar.

Strange that I never wanted to invade Belgium because of it.

[schindlerpiste]

^^^
Pardon my ignorance, but I don't get your point (or the connection. ...Blowing someone away in Belgium, as compared to referring to certain people a certain way).

Oh, and are you sure you meant Belgium....or can it be Belfast?

[PNWbrit]

Think man, think.

Belgium, Irelan.... there all Euros. What difference can such piffling details make? Especially to you with your wide tarring brush and all?

[schindlerpiste]

Thanks for the laugh. That's classic!

[natty dread]

This morning, I wake up, still with doubts, and questions, but almost certain that I will be backing McCain.

Of course you do. Like I observed just a few posts back, you've already decided.
Even though you said this:


I claim to be a guy who will listen to the candidates until the end, before deciding one way, or another.


Natty may be a good person, but in my opinion he has made false statements about me, and has attacked me personally. To me, that is uncalled for...even here.


Oh c'mon dude. Attacks? False statements? This is a pointed debate, sure, but cowboy up schind and stop crying. Or at least do a better job of refuting those who are calling you out on your contradictory and transparently partisan arguments.
Angry Dem? You bet your ass I'm angry after what we've been through in the last 8 years.
Angry Repub? Yep that's you. No matter how much you may proclaim otherwise, your own words say it all.
At least I can admit it.
And it's spelled "bigot."

[Steven S. Dallas]

Here's something I don't get, and will never get:


“She’s me,” said Tana Krueger, 58, a mothger of six from Fond du Lac, Wis., who said she drove an hour to see Ms. Palin.

Ms. Krueger, a risk manager at a state hospital, said that she might not have come out to see only Mr. McCain, and that while she is a Republican she might have voted for Hillary Rodham Clinton had she been the Democratic nominee. Now, she said, she was now definitely going to vote for Mr. McCain because of his selection of Ms. Palin.

“I can just really relate to everything in her life, children with disabilities, teenage pregnancy,” Ms. Krueger said.

Why the FUCK do you think someone who on paper is "like you" would do a better job running the country than someone who, on paper, is not like you? Why do you need to relate to someone you'll never meet?

[P_McPoser]

Here's something I don't get, and will never get:



Why the FUCK do you think someone who on paper is "like you" would do a better job running the country than someone who, on paper, is not like you? Why do you need to relate to someone you'll never meet?

Self interest, perhaps? That'd be my guess.

[TruckeeLocal]

Hey, I got knocked off my feet by the blast from an IRA bomb in London. Knew three people who were killed by similar.

Strange that I never wanted to invade Belgium because of it.
Hey, in Belgium I was the victim of a terrorist attack. Who the hell are the Belgians going to invade - Luxembourg ?

[hutash]

Think man, think.

Belgium, Irelan.... there all Euros. What difference can such piffling details make? Especially to you with your wide tarring brush and all?

Well play sir, well played.

I have to admit it was lost on me as well, but the subtle yet biting English humor is like none else in the world.

I've been to Canada, so I too have wealth of international experience.

[Jer]

Here's something I don't get, and will never get:



Why the FUCK do you think someone who on paper is "like you" would do a better job running the country than someone who, on paper, is not like you? Why do you need to relate to someone you'll never meet?

I've said the exact same thing to many Obamazombies.

All the Reps are doing is turning the Dems game right back on them and running them over in the process. The Dems would be smart if they weren't so fucking stupid.

[Jer]

Hey, in Belgium I was the victim of a terrorist attack.

Getting ass-raped by a bunch of drunk Belgians isn't exactly a "terrorist attack".

[Steven S. Dallas]

Self interest, perhaps? No- a self-interested voter would choose the candidate whose policies would actually benefit them most, whether directly or indirectly.

Jer- just not true; the GOP uses this "regular guy" approach all the time. People voted for GW because they thought they'd like to have a beer with him. Personally, I want the guy running the country to be too busy to be hanging out and drinking beer, with me or anyone else. Obama has to do the common-touch-thing because he doesn't look like most people in this country, although his experience (up until Harvard Law) wasn't that exceptional. Unusual upbringing, what with the Indonesia and stuff, but it's not like he's a born-into-wealth Connecticut WASP like GW.

[Sarah Palin is Tina Fey]

Come on. Consider the SNL conspiracy.

[Jer]

Jer- just not true; the GOP uses this "regular guy" approach all the time. People voted for GW because they thought they'd like to have a beer with him. Personally, I want the guy running the country to be too busy to be hanging out and drinking beer, with me or anyone else. Obama has to do the common-touch-thing because he doesn't look like most people in this country, although his experience (up until Harvard Law) wasn't that exceptional. Unusual upbringing, what with the Indonesia and stuff, but it's not like he's a born-into-wealth Connecticut WASP like GW.

Bullshit. Both parties use the same douchebag tactics. You've really gotta take off the libro-colored glasses.

[schindlerpiste]

Of course you do. Like I observed just a few posts back, you've already decided.
Even though you said this:





Oh c'mon dude. Attacks? False statements? This is a pointed debate, sure, but cowboy up schind and stop crying. Or at least do a better job of refuting those who are calling you out on your contradictory and transparently partisan arguments.
Angry Dem? You bet your ass I'm angry after what we've been through in the last 8 years.
Angry Repub? Yep that's you. No matter how much you may proclaim otherwise, your own words say it all.
At least I can admit it.
And it's spelled "bigot."

Ok, and thanks for the spelling correction.
You're right. I guess I am an angry republican. After all, I have voted for Bush(s) 4X, and Reagan twice. However, I tell you that in this election, I like to think that I have kept an open mind. I could have definitely seen myself pulling the lever for dems. this time around. As time goes by, that prospect becomes more and more remote.
I think that McCain did a good job. I hope that, if he wins, he lasts the entire 4 year term.

On a related note, more and more evidence is emerging that supports my original intent in this thread that Palin won over some people. I'm sure you saw the poll results that she is more popular than McCain and Obama. Go figure. I have always been of the opinion that the voting public is not composed of intellectuals, but ordinary naive people who want someone to connect with...to trust. Apparently, she accomplished her goal (atleast in the short-term).

[Steven S. Dallas]

You've really gotta take off the libro-colored glasses. Okay, dummy.

[TruckeeLocal]

Getting ass-raped by a bunch of drunk Belgians isn't exactly a "terrorist attack".
No but a bomb placed next door blowing out the windows as part of a series of attacks on American interests is. Sorry, but I have to question the levity you demonstrate towards terrorist attacks generally and folks who have actively been targetted specifically. Get a life.

[Smokey McPole]

No but a bomb placed next door blowing out the windows as part of a series of attacks on American interests is. Sorry, but I have to question the levity you demonstrate towards terrorist attacks generally and folks who have actively been targetted specifically. Get a life.

I'll tell ya what - I'll get a life if you stop being gay. And get some courage. Maybe we can go see The Wizzard of Oz. We can take Adolf along and maybe get him a brain.

[TruckeeLocal]

I'll tell ya what - I'll get a life if you stop being gay. And get some courage. Maybe we can go see The Wizzard of Oz. We can take Adolf along and maybe get him a brain.
I guess that's as close to an apology that you're capable of.
ps. Courage is easy when you're not an accessible terrorist target. Yeh, you're real brave.

[Smokey McPole]

Yeh, you're real brave.

Thanks. You're real gay.

[P_McPoser]

No- a self-interested voter would choose the candidate whose policies would actually benefit them most, whether directly or indirectly.



A typical American Voter is going to have this thought process:

She's down home->She's a mom-> She's like me---------->She'll have my best interests in mind, because they are the same as hers!

[TruckeeLocal]

Thanks. You're real gay.
It's tough to respond appropriately to your insightfull retorts.

By the way you didn't need to engage on my post of first hand terrorism experience. Dig some more.

[Smokey McPole]

A typical American Voter is going to have this thought process:

She's down home->She's a mom-> She's like me---------->She'll have my best interests in mind, because they are the same as hers!

Yep. I watched about 30 seconds of her speach. As soon as I heard the Midwest accent I knew Obama was completely fuct. She's everybody's Mom/Sister/friend.

[Smokey McPole]

It's tough to respond appropriately to your insightfull retorts.

Yeah - it must be hard to concentrate with a cucumber stuck up your ass.

[Steven S. Dallas]

A typical American Voter is going to have this thought process: She's down home->She's a mom-> She's like me---------->She'll have my best interests in mind, because they are the same as hers! I guess you could call that a "thought process."

Not that you're wrong.

[doughboyshredder]

Yep. I watched about 30 seconds of her speach. As soon as I heard the Midwest accent I knew Obama was completely fuct. She's everybody's Mom/Sister/friend.

I made it through the first half, but I knew after the first five minutes that she would be the next VP, and most likely the first female president.

Scary shit.

She was able to change the entire election from a referendum on the republicans to a choice between conservative and liberal social viewpoints. I bet that McCain / Palin wins by a few thousand votes in one key state. McCain dies within a few years and Palin becomes president.

[Jer]

I made it through the first half, but I knew after the first five minutes that she would be the next VP, and most likely the first female president.

Scary shit.

She was able to change the entire election from a referendum on the republicans to a choice between conservative and liberal social viewpoints. I bet that McCain / Palin wins by a few thousand votes in one key state. McCain dies within a few years and Palin becomes president.

I'll say it will be more like Carter v. Reagan. There will be no recounts or lawsuits. It will be cut and dry on the 5th. McCain lives through the first term, doesn't seek re-election. Palin wins in 2112 and serves two terms. Rivers flow with chocolate. A unicorn in every backyard.

[P_McPoser]

I guess you could call that a "thought process."

Not that you're wrong.

Never claimed it was a coherent one, just the most likely one. I've been surrounded by these small town type folk for almost 4 years now, day in, day out. They're pretty easy to figure out.

[skifishbum]

For me it's more than the "drill baby drill". The fact that her husband claims to be a commercial fisherman, yet she is not opposed to a nonamerican mining company building the worlds largest open pit mine in
a fragile eccosystem, doesn't make sense to me. Bristol Bay provides a renewable resouce in its salmon fishing that far outweighs the need to rape the earth in orger to provide wealthy people with the patina that only copper rain gutters can provide.
Molybdenum drivers to add 10' to your drive?
Mr. T needs more bling?
Call me a tree huggin libro douche but if you have ever been to this area and experienced it's wonders you should.

[skifishbum]

This place reserved for P Mcposer to school an underedjumacated, yet well travelled, skifishbum on the need for precious metal and the new advances in eccomining ;)

[Jer]

Here's some precious metal:
http://www.progreviews.com/reviews/images/Gor-Obs.jpg
Well, precious experimental/jazz-fusion/deathmetal anyway..

[PowTron]

I also predict that she will win over more Hilary supporters than Barry does. SHe did a great job. She was very impressive to me, and more importantly, mainstream America. Let's see which candidate gets a bigger bounce in the polls as a result of the primaries.
If this was her 1st test, I give her an A+..

No offense to you, but politically...you are an asshat

[P_McPoser]

For me it's more than the "drill baby drill". The fact that her husband claims to be a commercial fisherman, yet she is not opposed to a nonamerican mining company building the worlds largest open pit mine in
a fragile eccosystem, doesn't make sense to me. Bristol Bay provides a renewable resouce in its salmon fishing that far outweighs the need to rape the earth in orger to provide wealthy people with the patina that only copper rain gutters can provide.
Molybdenum drivers to add 10' to your drive?
Mr. T needs more bling?
Call me a tree huggin libro douche but if you have ever been to this area and experienced it's wonders you should.

LOL on the 2nd post SFB. My response may surprise you.

McPoser's Mining Views:
1. Underground Mining >>> Surface Mining
-Less visual impact
-Less mining of barren material (economics sees to this)
-Smaller footprint
-More engineering challenges (fun for me)

2. Anything that puts more moly on the market, that is not from the Company I work for = Not Good
-Protect my job and my bonuses. ;)

3. Foreign ownership of US minerals = fucking lame
-We already do not have a govt. tax on minerals mined from govt property ( I actaully would support a tax on Net Smelter Returns for minerals mined on government land).
-It's bad enough that we don't get a cut of our public land mining profits, it's even worse if the proceeds leave the country.

That being said, domestic production capabilities are very important. Due to the roadblocks constantly put in front of any new mining operation in the US, domestic production decreases every year, while companies continue to move overseas to mining friendly countries. If that trend continues, we'll see metals as the next Oil sometime down the road. Metals are just as important strategically as Oil, and there are not really alternatives when it comes to Metals.

Re: The Pebble Mine
I have absolute faith that the mine can be constructed and operated without harming the salmon fisheries. It is not 1900, the mining industry, like all other heavy industry, is typically on the cutting edge environmentally. We have to be, it's part of our social license. We have to do better than legally required, because we will always have the chip on our shoulder about our past legacy of destruction.

The Pebble Mine SHOULD be constructed. It is a domestic source of strategic metals, and is one of the few remaining world-class deposits.

The Pebble mine SHOULD be constructed and operated by a US BASED AND OWNED corporation. Not all of the deposit is on Private Property, those metals belong to the citizens of the State of Alaska and The United States of America. NOT Canada.

Taxes need to be imposed by our government on net smelter returns of all public land mined metals, and that tax rate should be much higher for foreign companies.

/end rant

[P_McPoser]

I'll also say that I know of two major mines in Colorado, whose water treatment plants discharge directly into the headwaters of gold medal waters, as well as the municipal drinking water supplies of several large suburbs of Denver, and a very large, very thirsty brewery. These mines have been doing so for tens of years without a single CWA violation.

[natty dread]

After all, I have voted for Bush(s) 4X

Figured as much. Still am incredulous that anyone could vote for bush in 2004. 2000 maybe, but in 2004 you really had to be a rabid partisan repub/swift boat believer to think shrub would have been better for the country than kerry.


However, I tell you that in this election, I like to think that I have kept an open mind.

"Like to think?" That's funny.

[P_McPoser]

Figured as much. Still am incredulous that anyone could vote for bush in 2004. 2000 maybe, but in 2004 you really had to be a rabid partisan repub/swift boat believer to think shrub would have been better for the country than kerry.


Kerry was just a horrible, horrible, horrible candidate. I never even considered voting for him. McCain hasn't drawn me away from Obama yet.

[Jer]

Figured as much. Still am incredulous that anyone could vote for bush in 2004. 2000 maybe, but in 2004 you really had to be a rabid partisan repub/swift boat believer to think shrub would have been better for the country than kerry.


What's with you guys still crowing about the swift boat crap?

[natty dread]

Kerry was just a horrible, horrible, horrible candidate. I never even considered voting for him. McCain hasn't drawn me away from Obama yet.

Never said kerry was a good candidate, he bent over and took it up the ass from rove at al.
But to vote for dumbfuck W because kerry was a bad candidate--that makes no sense. To me at least.
Good to hear you're not drinking the rovian kool aid McP.

[concretejungle]

If you are planning on voting based on Mrs. Palin's claim to be an advocate for special needs children read this article.

Apparently Mrs. Palin decided to become an advocate for special needs children just the other night. I'm not discounting the fact that she could become one and has closer ties than most but it seems she might have started when she was the governor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/us/politics/07needs.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[Tippster]

I'll also say that I know of two major mines in Colorado, whose water treatment plants discharge directly into the headwaters of gold medal waters, as well as the municipal drinking water supplies of several large suburbs of Denver, and a very large, very thirsty brewery. These mines have been doing so for tens of years without a single CWA violation.

No wonder Coors tastes like shit... ;)

I think the mining industry and the nuclear industry are being tagged for their past failures when the "accusers" have no clue how much the Tech has advanced since those times. It's like accusing the new Airbus for being like the Spruce Goose - the only thing they have in common is the distinction of being the largest plane of their time.

[focus]

Here's something I don't get, and will never get:



Why the FUCK do you think someone who on paper is "like you" would do a better job running the country than someone who, on paper, is not like you? Why do you need to relate to someone you'll never meet?

Intellectual laziness. You don't actually expect us to read stuff and think critically, do you??

Have you been to uhmericuh?

[Cliff Huckable]

I've been surrounded by these small town type folk for almost 4 years now, day in, day out. They're pretty easy to figure out.

You're nothing but an imperious bicoastal post-secondary urban intellectual elitist Hollywood-Manhattan bastard!

[timnormandin]

Getting ass-raped by a bunch of drunk Belgians isn't exactly a "terrorist attack".

Speak for yourself, dude. Wait, maybe you are. :FIREdevil

[P_McPoser]

You're nothing but an imperious bicoastal post-secondary urban intellectual elitist Hollywood-Manhattan bastard!

My brain hurts.

[Hott Butt Mud]

PALIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!