final political post

[montanaskier]

We should abandon the political stuff and just let everyone check out this site and figure it for themselves.


http://www.factcheck.org/

[jon turner]

It's important to use far more than one source. I'm going to argue with factcheck.org on one point for example. In response to Obama's speech, they claim the following:

'Obama also pulled some sleight of hand when he stated that "the average American family" saw its income "go down $2,000" under George Bush. That's not correct. Census figures show average family income went down $348.

As it turns out, when Obama said "average family income," he didn't mean "average," and he didn't mean "family," either. An Obama aide says he was really referring to median income – which is the midpoint – and not to the average. And Obama was talking only about "working families," not retired couples.

For all families, median family income actually inched up under Bush by $272.'

Looking at the actual census data here: US census data (http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/f07AR.html)
you can see that, yes of ALL FAMILIES, median income increased very slightly (272$) from 2000 to 2007. But, if you look from the years 1994 to 2000, median income increased nearly $7,000 dollars, still supporting Obama's case that the Bush years have supported income increases very little, while the dollar has dropped, making it more expensive to live. (all numbers in 2007 dollars).

Looking at EPI data (using actual census data) posted here (http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_econindicators_income_20080826)

you can see that for those under 65 years of age (generally considered working age), median income has dropped $2000. They also have the census data for ALL individuals showing the slight increase.

Interesting stuff, and it shows that even factcheck.org might not be showing the whole picture. If you want to get absolutely literal, then yes factcheck.org is correct, but looking into the data, you can understand what Obama was going for, and using the Bush years as a comparison to the 90's, it seems to be a strong case against Bush policies.

FYI, I am not a die hard Obama supporter, and may not even vote for him (nor McCain for that matter). I like what Obama has to say, but I personally lean even more progressive/left.

[fez]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/08/31/business/0831-sbn-webVIEW.gif

[TWGIO Alias]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Teleprompter_schematic.svg/350px-Teleprompter_schematic.svg.png

[house]

agreed. the puerile bickering between people who have obviously made their minds up already is getting in the way of the fun padded room stuff. news flash: you aren't going to change anyone's vote by throwing generalizations back and forth.

now everyone go read about the candidates from a variety of sources (this doesn't mean channels 2,4,5,13...). and look at all the boobies that have been bumped cause of this shitshow!