Palin's kid, again!

[basinbeater]

Here she is, gettin her drink on.... she's the one in Blue.
Now that isn't to say that I hadn't had a few drinks by the time I was 16, but my mom also isn't running for VP.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2d8ib1k.jpg

[Vicious]

This just in...Palin's daughter isn't running for VP. Who f'ing cares if she has a few beers.

[doughboyshredder]

hypocrisy is so rad.

Fucking Christian cuntbags.

[doughboyshredder]

This just in...Palin's daughter isn't running for VP. Who f'ing cares if she has a few beers.


You're right. Her mom is. On a platform of Christian based moral superiority.

Her oldest daughter is an alcoholic slut. (jk.)

Damn good job she's done with the moral education.

[gretch6364]

hypocrisy is so rad.

Fucking Christian cuntbags.

I am pretty sure that Sarah's daughter drinking doesn't make Sarah a hypocrite....unless of course she bought the beer for her daughter. Did it ever occur to you that Sarah and her daughter are two different people who make their own choices?

[Tippster]

Nice Tits!

[The AD]

I'm just glad the kid is (or was, prior to getting knocked up) leading the life of a typical teen despite her mom's wacky ideals.

[basinbeater]

I'd say I'd hit it, but it sounds like someone else beat me to it. I'd still probably hit it.

And no, she is not running for president, but her mom who wants to tell all of us how we should be raising our kids and what we should teach them is. And she can't get that shit through the head of her own daughter. Almost like Brittany Spears' mom writing a parenting book. Retarded.

[BmillsSkier]

I've always found that it's easy to cast others as hypocrites because they have chosen to hold themselves to a higher standard or associate with those who do. This branding is even easier when it is cast from a position where no moral high ground is ever taken, preferred, nor professed.

[smmokan]

She lives in Alaska, what else is there to do? Drink and fuck. Sounds like a regular teen to me.

[timvwcom]

Why is it ALWAYS me? OK, OK...

Courtesy graphics posting service;
http://i34.tinypic.com/2d8ib1k.jpg

[Trackhead]

You're right. Her mom is. On a platform of Christian based moral superiority.

Her oldest daughter is an alcoholic slut. (jk.)

Damn good job she's done with the moral education.

Pull your head out of your stupid fucking ass. The world isn't black and white you fucking tool.

[f2f]

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/bristol-palin-pic.jpg

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/palin-bristol.jpg

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/bristol.jpg

note that technically she's not holding any booze (the last pic could be just a glass of water). images provided for your enjoyment only, they do not reflect the opinions of the poster.

[beaterdit]

By the time I was 17 I'd been drinking heavily, smoking unreal amounts of dope, and dropping acid two or three times a week for four years.

Big fucking deal.

[Powow]

I've always found that it's easy to cast others as hypocrites because they have chosen to hold themselves to a higher standard or associate with those who do. This branding is even easier when it is cast from a position where no moral high ground is ever taken, preferred, nor professed.
Not christian moral ground != no moral ground at all.

[Trackhead]

By the time I was 17 I'd been drinking heavily, smoking unreal amounts of dope, and dropping acid two or three times a week for four years.



I still do, fucking pussy.;)

[timvwcom]

note that technically she's not holding any booze (the last pic could be just a glass of water). images provided for your enjoyment only, they do not reflect the opinions of the poster.

I think that in your images, top to bottom, she is on left, right, and only???

Also in the first image with big group and beer bottles... she is the chic in the light blue? If so she is totally holding the beer furthest to the bottom right.

[telebobski]

This has me thinking...OK, mebbe Sarah is the Bible-thumping, abortion-hating, anti-feminist spawn of Satan the ObamaZombies think she is. But, ya gotta wonder where Todd Palin stands on all of this evangelical shit?

This isn't like any hudgely religious (esp in the evangelical-pentecostal sense) family I've ever seen. This looks a lot more like a family led by a driven woman with some strong beliefs - the rest of the family just smiles and nods at whatever she sez, but then goes off and does what they want as soon as she runs off to the next obligation. And if Dad is off to The Slope for weeks at a time, the kids have a lot of unsupervised time.

So, they are like any two-earner couple with kids whose jobs require overnight travel. And her kids aren't exactly practicing her beliefs. Woah, how bizarre, you don't see that very often today.

[f2f]

tim, i don't think that's her in any of those images. compare, especially the chin:

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/bristol-palin-sarah-palin.jpg

the problem is with everyone jumping on the bandwagon without verifying that the google image search hits are really positive. the particular images i posted are from this wonderful on-line rag:

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2008/09/bristol-palin-photos-guns-booze-and-girl-on-girl-action/

[timvwcom]

Had to go see if there were more at your source...

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/bristol-palin-drinking-underage.jpg

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/bristol-palin-levi-johnston.jpg

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/bristol-palin-and-levi-johnston.jpg

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/bristol-palin-and-trig-palin.jpg

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/bristol-palin-girl-on-girl.jpg

Looks like being a VP candidates daughter and getting pregnant can be a buzz kill (on right); +++++VIBES+++++

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20080902/475_ap_palin_family_080902.jpg

[lax]

its not hypocritical. just proof that that shit don't wurk.

[timvwcom]

This is a mosaic of most of the easily available images where she is shown with family and 100% sure to be her.

http://www.timvw.com/whooohooo/bristol_mosaic.jpg

The nose and eye brows seem to match pretty well with most of those new images, but the first 2 photos in this thread (1 in OP, then first of new set) I'm not as sure of...

[squatch]

Tim: you need a new hobby, one that's not doing forensic picture analysis of 17 year olds.

[DirkaDirkaJack]

damn i would so fuckin hit that.

if i was in Alaska....and her age.....

[Jim S]

One of the few mom-daughter teams I'd fuck.

[Tuckerman]

She lives in Alaska, what else is there to do? Drink and fuck. Sounds like a regular teen to me.

Ski, run, hike, camp, get lost, ski, fuck.

BTW I predict this kind of a campaign being run by the democrats will result in another win for the republicans, so by all means keep it up.

[neck beard]

Do they have small black bears there?

[doughboyshredder]

Pull your head out of your stupid fucking ass. The world isn't black and white you fucking tool.

WTF? That's fucking uncalled for.

Fucking prick ass mother fucker.

[Cono Este]

Nice Tits!

I concur.

[philippeR]

WTF? That's fucking uncalled for.

Fucking prick ass mother fucker.


You're right. Her mom is. On a platform of Christian based moral superiority.

Her oldest daughter is an alcoholic slut. (jk.)

Damn good job she's done with the moral education.

And alcoholic slut ? I agree. You're a tool.

And this thread is a shame.

Edited to add that's the kind of smear campain that could hurt Obama more than Mc Cain.
By US standard I'm probably a commie and I really really wish Obama to get elected, but picking on the girl sex life is fucking disgusting.

[Brock Landers]

One of the few mom-daughter teams I'd fuck.

Right after Im done with Joan and Melissa Rivers...

[Crud's Uncle]

Attacking a 17 year old, you libs are scum.

Let's start posting pictures of Obama doing drugs, and you would all be crying dirty politics.

The more the libs attack, the more mainstream America will come to her defense. Anyone under 60 probably has done a few things that they are not proud of, and probably know a kid or two that was raised well but went astray.

[Jim S]

Right after Im done with Joan and Melissa Rivers...

ewwwwwwww http://www.gearslutz.com/board/images/smilies/freak3.gif

[SkiEvil]

Is Patrick the father?

[hutash]

Attacking a 17 year old, you libs are scum.

Let's start posting pictures of Obama doing drugs, and you would all be crying dirty politics.

The more the libs attack, the more mainstream America will come to her defense. Anyone under 60 probably has done a few things that they are not proud of, and probably know a kid or two that was raised well but went astray.

If such pictures exist, they would be all over, you can count on that.

I don't see an attack on her, just pointing out that Palin's rhetoric is BS. She wants to lead the country on a moral high ground, but can't do it with her family.

Personally I think it's great Bristol doesn't follow mom's BS, and I hope she doesn't vote for her either (yes, I know she is 17.)

Phillipe...the difference between US and French politics, is the that religious right runs on a high moral platform that says want they do is the right and proper thing to do, so pointing out hypocrisy is valid. If one of your politician ran on a anti-mistress platform, but kept one, wouldn't you find it entertaining?

[warthog]

And alcoholic slut ? I agree. You're a tool.

And this thread is a shame.

Edited to add that's the kind of smear campain that could hurt Obama more than Mc Cain.
By US standard I'm probably a commie and I really really wish Obama to get elected, but picking on the girl sex life is fucking disgusting.

Its just gonna get worse, and it will all land in Obama's lap. If there is one thing I know in this world, it is that a hard workin' mom who raises a family, runs a household, and runs a business (or state as it were), is a woman first, and a dem or republican second. There will be no party lines if this woman's family gets chewed up and spit out by the media. Right or wrong, this is the same media that is perceived by so many to be owned by the left. Therefore, all this unfair scrutiny will land in the Dems lap.

If you really want to see the dichotomy that is forming, tune into Bill Maher this week on HBO. Michel Martin, who is a host on NPR, and a staunch democrat, sums up the whole thing surprisingly well. She thinks this is going to blow up in their faces, and she is scared. This woman is WOMAN before she is a democrat, and she makes that all too clear to Bill Maher. Just watch it. If you don't think there are a couple million women out there who think the same way, then you are living in a dream world.

This is Swift Boat politics from the inside. The republicans won't have to lift a finger. The media will do it for them. It really is fascinating, like a bad conspiracy movie. But it is really happening.

[Trackhead]

WTF? That's fucking uncalled for.

Fucking prick ass mother fucker.

Sorry. Probably just sick and tired of the Right/Left wing grasping at straws to discredit either candidate any chance they get. Gets old.

[warthog]

Sorry. Probably just sick and tired of the Right/Left wing grasping at straws to discredit either candidate any chance they get. Gets old.

I think we all are. Unfortunately, that is all we get from the tabloid journalists today. We would be better of getting our news from The National Enquirer. At least they get it right, most of the time.

[doughboyshredder]

Sorry. Probably just sick and tired of the Right/Left wing grasping at straws to discredit either candidate any chance they get. Gets old.

I agree 100%. The alcoholoic slut thing really was a joke (jk.).

I am not a liberal lefty by any stretch.

I wasn't voting Obama until Palin came on the ticket. I am horrified by the prospect of having this type of person in the White House. I am even more horrified by the fact that it shows McCain has no problem having his closest cabinet members be creationists when he states that he believes in Evolution.

[Lonnie]

Come on folks, it's obvious. She just hasn't found jesus christ as her own personal lord and savior yet....

[Blatant]

And alcoholic slut ? I agree. You're a tool.

And this thread is a shame.

Edited to add that's the kind of smear campain that could hurt Obama more than Mc Cain.
By US standard I'm probably a commie and I really really wish Obama to get elected, but picking on the girl sex life is fucking disgusting.



LOL, huh? What? You know how this board rolls! :rolleyes2

[doughboyshredder]

And alcoholic slut ? I agree. You're a tool.

And this thread is a shame.

Edited to add that's the kind of smear campain that could hurt Obama more than Mc Cain.
By US standard I'm probably a commie and I really really wish Obama to get elected, but picking on the girl sex life is fucking disgusting.

I think you misunderstand american politics, and especially american sexual politics.

Palin represents the most repressive mentality in the country in regards to sexual liberation. She and her supporters would love to impose their moral beliefs (abstinence before marriage) (eternal damnation (and prison) for gay sex) on others through the rule of law.

But at the same time her daughter drinks and has sex. (WHICH THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IMO).

[CUBUCK]

She and her supporters would love to impose their moral beliefs (abstinence before marriage) (eternal damnation (and prison) for gay sex) on others through the rule of law.



What has she done in Alaska to further this agenda at the state level?

[Tuckerman]

What has she done in Alaska to further this agenda at the state level?

Absolutely nothing which is why she had a hard time with the AK republican party. Does she even go to church on a regularly. You want to know what she did for her state, she made deep budget cuts and forced the state to become more fiscally responsible. Which makes lobbyists not so happy in there pants.


I know the Irish Catholic stance on abortion and contraception being a product of that world.

[doughboyshredder]

Way too fucking easy.



ST. PAUL -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee who revealed Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, earlier this year used her line-item veto to slash funding for a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a place to live.
After the legislature passed a spending bill in April, Palin went through the measure reducing and eliminating funds for programs she opposed. Inking her initials on the legislation -- "SP" -- Palin reduced funding for Covenant House Alaska by more than 20 percent, cutting funds from $5 million to $3.9 million. Covenant House is a mix of programs and shelters for troubled youths, including Passage House, (http://covenanthouseak.org/passagehouse.htm) which is a transitional home for teenage mothers.
According to Passage House's web site, its purpose is to provide "young mothers a place to live with their babies for up to eighteen months while they gain the necessary skills and resources to change their lives" and help teen moms "become productive, successful, independent adults who create and provide a stable environment for themselves and their families."


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html?hpid=artslot

Other than that she hasn't been on the job long enough to really have an effect.

I do find it humorous how they have stated that they are proud Bristol chose to keep the baby (which would be a pro choice stance). Yet, under a McCain / Palin administration that choice could be taken away.

[philippeR]

I think you misunderstand american politics, and especially american sexual politics.

Palin represents the most repressive mentality in the country in regards to sexual liberation. She and her supporters would love to impose their moral beliefs (abstinence before marriage) (eternal damnation (and prison) for gay sex) on others through the rule of law.

But at the same time her daughter drinks and has sex. (WHICH THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IMO).

That was the "alcoholic slut" comment that got under my skin. But you cleared that up.
I do realize the hypocrisy. But I believe her teenage daughter shoud be kept out of this anyway. The girl is young, pregnant and has her pic plastered all over the net ? Jeez, I don't care if her mother has failed, is a conservative nut job or if she is actualy using her family for PR purposes. The girl shouldn't be fair game.
Warthog has it right. This should backfire.


If such pictures exist, they would be all over, you can count on that.

I don't see an attack on her, just pointing out that Palin's rhetoric is BS. She wants to lead the country on a moral high ground, but can't do it with her family.

Personally I think it's great Bristol doesn't follow mom's BS, and I hope she doesn't vote for her either (yes, I know she is 17.)

Phillipe...the difference between US and French politics, is the that religious right runs on a high moral platform that says want they do is the right and proper thing to do, so pointing out hypocrisy is valid. If one of your politician ran on a anti-mistress platform, but kept one, wouldn't you find it entertaining?

I would (you know that's pure science fiction in a french context, though).
But not if she's seventeen. Her privacy should be respected then... :D

[Tuckerman]

Way too fucking easy.



http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html?hpid=artslot

Other than that she hasn't been on the job long enough to really have an effect.

I do find it humorous how they have stated that they are proud Bristol chose to keep the baby (which would be a pro choice stance). Yet, under a McCain / Palin administration that choice could be taken away.

That's not the governments job she should have cut it more.

[doughboyshredder]

That's not the governments job she should have cut it more.


For the most part I agree with you.

But if you're not going to support the teens that do get pregnant, maybe you should tell them how not to get pregnant?

[yonskion]

You want to know what she did for her state, she made deep budget cuts and forced the state to become more fiscally responsible. Which makes lobbyists not so happy in there pants.


I know the Irish Catholic stance on abortion and contraception being a product of that world.
you should read before you open your mouth
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080903/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_earmarks
smart guy...come on Tuck you're smarter than that. Don't believe the GOP hype!!!! that lady is "Wiskey Tango" as the day is long.
how many trailers does She own again?

[timvwcom]

Like it or not, in the US a persons parenting "skills" are often judged by how their children behave. It happens when you are out dining in the local Outback Steak House, just like it happens in Presidential campaigns. In cases where the parent has made morality and young peoples sex/reproductive lives a Political issue, then suffers thru those issue personally, it can be hard not to suggest people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.. Remember how much attention Chelsea Clinton received, same with the Bush twins... Presidential (and VP) children ARE under the spot light these days whether they/or we like it or not.

With all that said, I think the process of the "new media" (which includes TGR) scouring the internet for info/pics relating to a surprise VP pick, is perfectly normal... It's the same kind of thing that happened when the Democratic Governor of NY got caught with an escort. It's been pretty clear for a while that the social networking site images used today, are going to the be treasure trove of this kind of info for the future. I also would argue that this discovery process is actually distinct and separate from the issue of using the info/images found to make attacks on any of the subjects. I support taking it easy on anything involving children, but do think any blatant hypocrisy of the parent is close to the line, and in some cases can be relevant.

But who cares what I think...

[Tuckerman]

For the most part I agree with you.

But if you're not going to support the teens that do get pregnant, maybe you should tell them how not to get pregnant?

Your not suggesting that the government should do that are you?

[doughboyshredder]

I think the biological facts of sexual reproduction should most definitely be taught in the school system. Along with that goes teaching the facts about birth control and the responsibilities of raising a child.

I don't think the schools should be teaching anything to do with the morality of sex, or the enjoyment of sex. That should be the parents job.

[DickDeep]

Your not suggesting that the government should do that are you?

Yep, right after creationism class...IDIOT'S!!!!!

[The AD]

Your not suggesting that the government should do that are you?

I think the government should provide free contraceptives to anyone who wants them in this country. In the long run I think that would save taxpayers huge amounts of money. This isn't forcing anyone to use birth control, just providing it to those who want it.

[f2f]

"On the pinhead front, 16-year-old Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant. The sister of Britney says she is shocked. I bet.

Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves."

Bill "Big O" O'Reilly, Thursday, December 20, 2007

i'd say i agree :)

[Tuckerman]

Yep, right after creationism class...IDIOT'S!!!!!

Yeah, because I guess math and science are no longer relevant. Lets waste time and money on DARE, and sex ed. You send your kid to sex ed, and DARE I'll send mine to math, science class we'll see who turns out better.

[The AD]

Yeah, because I guess math and science are no longer relevant. Lets waste time and money on DARE, and sex ed. You send your kid to sex ed, and DARE I'll send mine to math, science class we'll see who turns out better.

What percentage of school time is spent on sex ed? I'm guessing something like 1%. It seems like a worthwhile time investment to me.

[DickDeep]

Tuckerman, I think you should look into sarcasm class at your old community college "oops". don't forget to read before you open your mouth. Palin is a Hoax.

[f2f]

Tuckerman, I think you should look into sarcasm class at your old community collage. don't forget to read before you open your mouth. Palin is a Hoax.

community collage:

http://www.lincolnlibraries.org/Kids/graphics/communitycollage.jpg

[Tuckerman]

What percentage of school time is spent on sex ed? I'm guessing something like 1%. It seems like a worthwhile time investment to me.

I'll take that 1% any day for science class learning evolution or even history class. I guess we disagree that's why my child goes to private school I pay for learning for actual learning based on science.

Actually I pay for both but my kids not subjected to the morals and god theories of others in public school.

[doughboyshredder]

I'll take that 1% any day for science class learning evolution or even history class. I guess we disagree that's why my child goes to private school I pay for learning for actual learning based on science.

Actually I pay for both but my kids not subjected to the morals and god theories of others in public school.

shouldn't reproductive science be taught in science class?

Sex ed has been left out of science class because of the influence of religion.

[Tuckerman]

shouldn't reproductive science be taught in science class?


Yes, which should not include how to put a condom on a banana or that god is against sex with yourself or others.

[Tippster]

WTF is so scary about putting a condom on a banana?

[GoldMember]

WTF is so scary about putting a condom on a banana?

Bad press for most guys; the girls will have certain 'expectations' of size that will ultimately disappoint them.

[Tuckerman]

WTF is so scary about putting a condom on a banana?

Putting condoms on bananas has nothing to do with science. Do children also need a class on how to put on mittens.

[Poop~Ghost]

"On the pinhead front, 16-year-old Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant. The sister of Britney says she is shocked. I bet.

Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves."

Bill "Big O" O'Reilly, Thursday, December 20, 2007

i'd say i agree :)

For the over-head smash kill... well done sir. WEEEELLLLLL DONE!

When the conservative abstinence only policy towards partying and making sweet sexy time love fails in your own house... and it always seems to fail at JUST the right time... then your public policy looks and smells like a pile of horse shit.

[Crud's Uncle]

Maybe the pictures are waiting for October.

She raised her kids with her values. The kid rebels. It does not mean that her rhetoric is BS. Nothing works 100% of the time. Besides, I would guess that her kid went to public school and was taught sex ed.

Hypocrisy is not doing what you preach. Seems to me Sarah did. Then again to rabid libs, it is all about unsubstantiated lies.

I wonder how many of you have raised little sluts, many I would guess given all the NSFW threads.
If such pictures exist, they would be all over, you can count on that.

I don't see an attack on her, just pointing out that Palin's rhetoric is BS. She wants to lead the country on a moral high ground, but can't do it with her family.

Personally I think it's great Bristol doesn't follow mom's BS, and I hope she doesn't vote for her either (yes, I know she is 17.)

Phillipe...the difference between US and French politics, is the that religious right runs on a high moral platform that says want they do is the right and proper thing to do, so pointing out hypocrisy is valid. If one of your politician ran on a anti-mistress platform, but kept one, wouldn't you find it entertaining?

[The AD]

She raised her kids with her values. The kid rebels. It does not mean that her rhetoric is BS.

Good point. There are plenty of other reasons her rhetoric is BS other than just her own daughter getting knocked up.

[Cliff Huckable]

I am pretty sure that Sarah's daughter drinking doesn't make Sarah a hypocrite....unless of course she bought the beer for her daughter. Did it ever occur to you that Sarah and her daughter are two different people who make their own choices?

Did it ever occur to you that people who put themselves in a position of moral superiority but can't even impart their values to their own children should shut the fuck up.
I've got nothing against pregnant teen girls who like to party, but if their parents are going to tell others how to live, their own families should reflect their values. If their families don't then clearly the parents are failures at governing the people closest to them....




She raised her kids with her values. The kid rebels. It does not mean that her rhetoric is BS. Nothing works 100% of the time. Besides, I would guess that her kid went to public school and was taught sex ed.

Hypocrisy is not doing what you preach. Seems to me Sarah did. Then again to rabid libs, it is all about unsubstantiated lies.

I wonder how many of you have raised little sluts, many I would guess given all the NSFW threads.

I like the attack on TGR members' kids - classy! Related to Karl Rove or Roger Ailes, are you? I especially like your link between NSFW threads and sexually promiscuous children. I know you wouldn't make an assertion like that without some pretty thorough research to back it up...bwhahah.

I'm curious as to why you think she raised her kids with her values. If the kid had her mother's values she wouldn't be pregnant, rebel or not. It's that simple.
Btw, are you claiming to know that she got pregnant to rebel against her parents?

As for your definition of hypocrisy, here's one from Merriam-Webster:

a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

Do you think it fits this case?

[Crud's Uncle]

You obviously have never raised any kids.
Did it ever occur to you that people who put themselves in a position of moral superiority but can't even impart their values to their own children should shut the fuck up.
I've got nothing against pregnant teen girls who like to party, but if their parents are going to tell others how to live, their own families should reflect their values. If their families don't then clearly the parents are failures at governing the people closest to them....

[Crud's Uncle]

The liberals are the most illogical bunch of morons. You are arguing that an abstinence only philosophy is the reason the girl is pregnant. I guess there are no pregnant teens in school districts that teach birth control.

[Tippster]

Yep. Believe it or not Children are not like dogs or robots. They have something called "will."

I have yet to imply that Frau Palin is a bad mother. I do think that what is happening within her own family is an indication that the "Values Based Abstinence Only" sexual "education" (hah) she espouses just doesn't work in the real world.

This is something that the Conservatives refuse to see, despite it now being on their largest political stage.

[The AD]

The liberals are the most illogical bunch of morons. You are arguing that an abstinence only philosophy is the reason the girl is pregnant. I guess there are no pregnant teens in school districts that teach birth control.

I don't think that's what we're arguing. We realize kids are going to have sex and no amount of abstinence education is going to change that. Given that, we feel the best approach is to teach kids about birth control and make it readily available. No, it's not going to end teen pregnancy, but it can reduce it. That doesn't seem illogical to me, but we might need Spock to weigh in.

[Crud's Uncle]

It is illogical, because the facts show otherwise. Teen pregnancy rates have not been reduced by sex ed. 20% of Cleveland teens get pregnant before the age 19. They all had sex ed.

[Crud's Uncle]

If you can take off your left wing blinders, think how this is going to play in mainstream America. One candidate supports her pregnant teenage daughter, even though she made a mistake or many mistakes. Another, sees a baby as a punishment.

Obama may win the liberal states on the coast, but Palin will appeal to the Americans that live between the coasts.

[Tye 1on]

Yep. Believe it or not Children are not like dogs or robots. They have something called "will."

I have yet to imply that Frau Palin is a bad mother. I do think that what is happening within her own family is an indication that the "Values Based Abstinence Only" sexual "education" (hah) she espouses just doesn't work in the real world.

This is something that the Conservatives refuse to see, despite it now being on their largest political stage.

+1.

I also have a hard time laying a lot of parenting blame on Frau Palin. Of course, not having raised kids i don't know much about it, so my opinion would basically be crap anyways.

The heartburn I do have is, since she knew this was going to blow up, that she still chose to accept the nomination. To my eyes, knowing her kid was going to get freakin lambasted in the press, her decision to run was pretty damn selfish. Now we're reading [WaPo] that the McCain team didn't even know that fact until the day before the annoucement. :nonono2:

[Crud's Uncle]

The press was going to attack anyone he chose.

You vastly underestimate Palin's appeal. There are many traditional value Republicans that were not going to vote for McCain, that are going to because of Palin. I am one. I would be willing to bet for every McCain supporter that isn't going to vote for him because of Palin, there are 100,000+ that will vote for him because of Palin.

[Cliff Huckable]

You obviously have never raised any kids.

That's your reply -a shot-in-the-dark? That's all you've got?
Throw in the towel.

[steepconcrete]

It is illogical, because the facts show otherwise. Teen pregnancy rates have not been reduced by sex ed. 20% of Cleveland teens get pregnant before the age 19. They all had sex ed.

you are wrong.

being taught sex ed is one thing, having birth control available is another.

[Cliff Huckable]

It is illogical, because the facts show otherwise. Teen pregnancy rates have not been reduced by sex ed. 20% of Cleveland teens get pregnant before the age 19. They all had sex ed.

Then explain why teen pregnancy rates in the USA are so much higher than in other countries?

btw, geography is taught in American schools right? And yet:

WHERE IN THE WORLD
Among 18- to 24-year-old Americans given maps:

87 percent cannot find Iraq

83 percent cannot find Afghanistan

76 percent cannot find Saudi Arabia

70 percent cannot find New Jersey

49 percent cannot find New York

11 percent cannot find the United States

-- National Geographic Society

[Rontele]

Then explain why teen pregnancy rates in the USA are so much higher than in other countries?

btw, geography is taught in American schools right? And yet:

WHERE IN THE WORLD
Among 18- to 24-year-old Americans given maps:

87 percent cannot find Iraq

83 percent cannot find Afghanistan

76 percent cannot find Saudi Arabia

70 percent cannot find New Jersey

49 percent cannot find New York

11 percent cannot find the United States

-- National Geographic Society

Cliff, here is a little statistic I pulled.

100 percent of TGR members think you suck

[Tippster]

I like him more than you.

[Crud's Uncle]

If you had kids, you would realize they do not do what you say 100% of the time.
That's your reply -a shot-in-the-dark? That's all you've got?
Throw in the towel.

[Rontele]

I like him more than you.

That is unpossible. We are Facebook friends.

[Crud's Uncle]

Oh, I forgot contraceptives are not available.

Kids can get booze, drugs, cell phones, cars, but can't go into Walmart or a drug store and buy birth control.

I can tell you are an Obama supporter.:biggrin:
you are wrong.

being taught sex ed is one thing, having birth control available is another.

[Crud's Uncle]

If we found out that Bristol attended a public school and took sex ed, would you blame her pregnancy on the sex ed class?

[steepconcrete]

That is unpossible. We are Facebook friends.

i dont know why, but this made me laugh.

[belgian]

If we found out that Bristol attended a public school and took sex ed, would you blame her pregnancy on the sex ed class?

You are an insufferable asshole. What is your solution, oh wise one? Do you even believe in the shit that you're saying?

[steepconcrete]

Oh, I forgot contraceptives are not available.

Kids can get booze, drugs, cell phones, cars, but can't go into Walmart or a drug store and buy birth control.

I can tell you are an Obama supporter.:biggrin:

kids for the most part dont buy them. PERIOD. im 30, and i sometimes still get a little embarassed buying condoms.

besides everyone knows who she is, i doubt very seriously that she would risk being seen buying provos let alone risk her mom catching her with them.

who knows, maybe they did everything right and the condom broke during the same month she forgot to take a pill....

edit-and fuck yea i like obama, a lot. but saying that id vote non-republican PERIOD simply because the republican agenda has crippled this country BAD the past 8 years.

[Tippster]

That is unpossible. We are Facebook friends.

That's only so I can fling a thong at you.

[David Witherspoon]

It is illogical, because the facts show otherwise. Teen pregnancy rates have not been reduced by sex ed. 20% of Cleveland teens get pregnant before the age 19. They all had sex ed.
Stop lying. Or take off your rightwingnut blinders and look at the facts. Then you might start making sense.
But probably not.

Students who receive comprehensive sex education are half as likely to become teen parents as those who get none or abstinence-only sex education, according to researchers at the University of Washington.
Look the links up yourself.

[The AD]

Yeah, seriously, left wing blinders? Crud's Uncle thinks promoting abstinence is a good way to avert teen pregnancy, yet accuses us of wearing blinders? That's comedy.

Apparently "traditional values" involves simply denying the fact that teens have sex.

[Crud's Uncle]

Without even having to look it up, it is flawed. There is a difference between an abstinence education and none. Cleveland schools have a 20% pregnancy rate with sex ed. Bad sex teachers I guess.

[Crud's Uncle]

I have seen kids today. It is highly doubtful they would be embarrassed by anything.
kids for the most part dont buy them. PERIOD. im 30, and i sometimes still get a little embarassed buying condoms.

besides everyone knows who she is, i doubt very seriously that she would risk being seen buying provos let alone risk her mom catching her with them.

who knows, maybe they did everything right and the condom broke during the same month she forgot to take a pill....

edit-and fuck yea i like obama, a lot. but saying that id vote non-republican PERIOD simply because the republican agenda has crippled this country BAD the past 8 years.

[The AD]

Without even having to look it up, it is flawed.

Good stuff.

[Crud's Uncle]

You are an insufferable moron. As one, you are too stupid to understand the solution.
You are an insufferable asshole. What is your solution, oh wise one? Do you even believe in the shit that you're saying?

[timvwcom]

Without even having to look it up, it is flawed. There is a difference between an abstinence education and none. Cleveland schools have a 20% pregnancy rate with sex ed. Bad sex teachers I guess.

Typical conservative... You already KNOW EVERYTHING, why try and find the actual facts somewhere that might conflict with your truth? :rolleyes2

Also, I'm sure the social and economic situations in large urban cities could never be a factor in the teen pregnancy rate... it JUST HAS to be the sex education. :nonono2:

[philippeR]

kids for the most part dont buy them. PERIOD. im 30, and i sometimes still get a little embarassed buying condoms.

besides everyone knows who she is, i doubt very seriously that she would risk being seen buying provos let alone risk her mom catching her with them.

who knows, maybe they did everything right and the condom broke during the same month she forgot to take a pill....

edit-and fuck yea i like obama, a lot. but saying that id vote non-republican PERIOD simply because the republican agenda has crippled this country BAD the past 8 years.

Embarassed ? For one, I proudly walk to the cashier with my box of XL supersized condoms. What's wrong with you ?

Oh, and I like Cliff, and Rontele, and Tippster.

[Crud's Uncle]

Actually if you read through the thread, I was using the liberal logic that her pregnancy was proof the abstinence education does not work. It is as flawed (or more) than the argument that sex education results in pregnancy.

Economics have a lot to do with pregnancy. I must have missed that between supply and demand and the banking system.

Social circumstances do you mean being black? Seems like your West Virginny roots are surfacing.
Typical conservative... You already KNOW EVERYTHING, why try and find the actual facts somewhere that might conflict with your truth? :rolleyes2

Also, I'm sure the social and economic situations in large urban cities could never be a factor in the teen pregnancy rate... it JUST HAS to be the sex education. :nonono2:

[The AD]

As one, you are too stupid to understand the solution.

I see two potential solutions:
1. convince teens not to have sex
2. get teens to use birth control

My position is that the first one doesn't work.

[Cliff Huckable]

Oh, I forgot contraceptives are not available.

Kids can get booze, drugs, cell phones, cars, but can't go into Walmart or a drug store and buy birth control.

Booze=fun
Drugs=fun
Phones=fun
Cars=fun
Going into the local Wal-Mart and buying birth control=_________

You can fill the last one in. Or ask an adult to do it.


Cliff, here is a little statistic I pulled.

100 percent of TGR members think you suck

I don't think I suck, so your math is already suspect. I think you should have spent more time on your math homework and less time pulling your statistic.

[doughboyshredder]

Embarassed ? For one, I proudly walk to the cashier with my box of XL supersized condoms. .

Oh , holy shit, I just guffawed........

fuckin hillarious shit right there.

I still get emberassed buying magnums. Especially if it's an older woman cashier. They kind of try and get a peek to see if you got a bulge. Creepy............. :D

[timvwcom]

Economics have a lot to do with pregnancy. I must have missed that between supply and demand and the banking system.

Poverty and teen pregnancy are symbiotic in nature. Period.


Social circumstances do you mean being black? Seems like your West Virginny roots are surfacing.

My roots aren't WV FWIW... But on this, the poor of any ethnic background living in the big cities have statistically higher rates of teen pregnancy. Fact.

[Tuckerman]

you should read before you open your mouth
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080903/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_earmarks
smart guy...come on Tuck you're smarter than that. Don't believe the GOP hype!!!! that lady is "Wiskey Tango" as the day is long.
how many trailers does She own again?

Thats a good read and here is what I got out of it.

Alaskans pay both federal and state taxes, the Governor Sara Palin cuts her states budget thus saving her constituents a shit ton of $$$ and curbing the spending of the state government. She has no control over what the feds take from her constituents in taxes so using her knowledge of how the federal government works and experience she is able to bring the money that the feds took from her constituents in taxes back home in greater amounts than any other Governor in the country. I don't see a problem with that I wish my dumb ass Governor had that kind of know how.

Did I read it wrong? Whats your take?

[steepconcrete]

Oh , holy shit, I just guffawed........

fuckin hillarious shit right there.

I still get emberassed buying magnums. Especially if it's an older woman cashier. They kind of try and get a peek to see if you got a bulge. Creepy............. :D


totally....or the gay guy working 7-11 at 3am.

[TruckeeLocal]

Poverty and teen pregnancy are symbiotic in nature. Period.
While you're checking your facts you might want to look at Obama's mother's marital status and age.

My guess - the Republicans are just baiting the Dems. Bring it punk. Do you feel lucky ? Well do you punk ?

[ak_powder_monkey]

valley trash at its finest

[David Witherspoon]

Without even having to look it up, it is flawed.Incorrect. And not because you didn't look it up, though that might have showed you why you are wrong.

There is a difference between an abstinence education and none. Actually, there's no statistical difference in the rate of teenage pregnancies - both forms fail equally badly.

Cleveland schools have a 20% pregnancy rate with sex ed.That's no evidence of anything.

Firstly, it's an anecdote. Not data. No extrapolation, interpolation, inference or deduction allowed.

Secondly, we'd have to know what the pregnancy rate with no sex ed (or abstinence-only ed, amounts to the same thing) would have been. Without that, this anecdote says absolutely nothing regarding your claims.

Thirdly, you've carefully selected a city with one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the U.S. (which, of course, are the highest among the developed nations.) So it's not just an anecdote, it's a biased one, which further voids any conclusion you might like to draw from it.

Fourthly - despite your continued trumpeting of this anecdote - you're WAY wrong about the rate of teen pregnancy in Cleveland. I'm gonna be polite and assume you're just dumb as a rock, and not lying through your rotted-out meth-teeth.



Bad sex teachers I guess.You're an idiot; and I don't have to guess.
Shut up and crawl back under your rock, you slime-sucking ... it would be an insult to planarians to call you a flatworm.

Or, if you are actually a vertebrate - stand up, take your medicine, and apologize for your existence.

[Crud's Uncle]

Your humility is becoming.

Your little study and your statistics are meaningless. The fact is that there is no way to study the effect of education on pregnancy. There are too many other factors that cannot be controlled and invalidates any conclusion drawn.

I can't crawl under the rock, because your fat ass is taking up all the space.

Take you medicine and celebrate four years of Palin/McCain.


Incorrect. And not because you didn't look it up, though that might have showed you why you are wrong.
Actually, there's no statistical difference in the rate of teenage pregnancies - both forms fail equally badly.
That's no evidence of anything.

Firstly, it's an anecdote. Not data. No extrapolation, interpolation, inference or deduction allowed.

Secondly, we'd have to know what the pregnancy rate with no sex ed (or abstinence-only ed, amounts to the same thing) would have been. Without that, this anecdote says absolutely nothing regarding your claims.

Thirdly, you've carefully selected a city with one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the U.S. (which, of course, are the highest among the developed nations.) So it's not just an anecdote, it's a biased one, which further voids any conclusion you might like to draw from it.

Fourthly - despite your continued trumpeting of this anecdote - you're WAY wrong about the rate of teen pregnancy in Cleveland. I'm gonna be polite and assume you're just dumb as a rock, and not lying through your rotted-out meth-teeth.


You're an idiot; and I don't have to guess.
Shut up and crawl back under your rock, you slime-sucking ... it would be an insult to planarians to call you a flatworm.

Or, if you are actually a vertebrate - stand up, take your medicine, and apologize for your existence.

[David Witherspoon]

I am meaningless. The fact is that the effect of education on pregnancy has been studied very adequately, repeatedly. There are many other factors that have been controlled for. Your points are correct and completely invalidates any conclusion I might have drawn from my anecdotal drooling.

There is not enough humility in the world to cover my grossly overconfident behavior.

I will shoot myself when Obama takes the oath of office.
Pretty good apology. Couldna done it better if I'd written it for you.

I'll assume we'll not see you spewing falsehoods around here again? Or do you enjoy publicly humiliating yourself?

[Crud's Uncle]

Let me translate for you, anyone that does not agree with a liberal fag named David Witherspoon is ipso facto wrong.

Go back and kiss your boyfriend and tell him what a tough guy you are.

[David Witherspoon]

No, anybody who gets his facts dead wrong, who completely fails to use anything resembling reasoning based on those facts, and draws a litany of absurd conclusions based on false claims and fallacious reasoning - and furthermore has the gall to claim that anyone else's argument is incorrect because it conflicts with that line of bullshit - is not only wrong because of the foregoing, but also a poster boy for the Dunning Kruger effect.

Step up like a man and admit it. You got pwnd six ways to hell and back. All the surly comebacks in the world won't change that.

At least you'll watch your facts in the future. You may not like it, but you'll do it. And that's good enough for me.
:FIREdevil

[Crud's Uncle]

What facts? Just because your little mind thinks something is a fact does not make it so. You will have to try harder to get any reasonable non-flamer to join your little fantasy.

[yonskion]

using her knowledge of how the federal government works and experience she is able to bring the money
Hiring a lobyist to do this is not the experience I'm looking for. It is a very lame same old B.S. way of doing the job.
Other than that, I read it the same way....
I must conclude this Bitch is a train wreck.
Remember that old footage of the two trains smashing into one another,
McCain is in the middle right now

[Sir Jongalot]

Your humility is becoming.

Your little study and your statistics are meaningless. The fact is that there is no way to study the effect of education on pregnancy. There are too many other factors that cannot be controlled and invalidates any conclusion drawn.

I can't crawl under the rock, because your fat ass is taking up all the space.

Take you medicine and celebrate four years of Palin/McCain.

You're an Obama plant aren't you ?- designed to trick us into voting for Obama by making McCain supporters look like dolts.

[TruckeeLocal]

What facts? Just because your little mind thinks something is a fact does not make it so. You will have to try harder to get any reasonable non-flamer to join your little fantasy.
Some facts on teenage pregnancy are available from the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_10.pdf) specifically on page 9. By the way Ohio is BELOW the national average and has trended down. But those are facts which don't support your position. So why bother checking. Which, I believe, was Witherspoons point.

[David Witherspoon]

What facts? Just because your little mind thinks something is a fact does not make it so. You will have to try harder to get any reasonable non-flamer to join your little fantasy.
Just because your box of rocks tries to think something doesn't mean there's any neurons in there.

Non-flamers: you have been called upon to judge.
Deliver your verdict, swiftly and mercilessly.

Anybody who wants to go through the stats in detail - again ;) - will find these links useful (in addition to the CDC link above):
http://www.ccbh.net/ccbh/opencms/CCBH/datastats/tables.html
http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/main.html?_lang=en

[Tipper]

Just because your box of rocks tries to think something doesn't mean there's any neurons in there.

Non-flamers: you have been called upon to judge.
Deliver your verdict, swiftly and mercilessly.

You are a fag. I love you, but you are so, so, so gay it hurts to watch. Please stop lying to yourself.

[Adolf Allerbush]

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45791&stc=1&d=1220479179

[grrrr]

Did I read it wrong? Whats your take?

Earmarks = sucking off the federal teat. Like the bridge to nowhere. Which she sucked on, then lied about.

Personally, I wrote a nasty note to my representatives after they boasted about bringing in federal farm subsidies, among other wastes of my tax dollars.

She has been better than Uncle Ted, but far worse than the democratic reps in this state.

More earmarks = bigger federal deficit.

[hutash]

Sorry Crud, game, set and match to DW on this one. Next try try to google some real info, not just stuff you pull out of your ass. I would have said brain, but it is obvious you are not in possession of one.

[whatcomridaz]

Does that mean you're willing to take your lumps as well?


Incorrect. And not because you didn't look it up, though that might have showed you why you are wrong.
Actually, there's no statistical difference in the rate of teenage pregnancies - both forms fail equally badly.
That's no evidence of anything.

Firstly, it's an anecdote. Not data. No extrapolation, interpolation, inference or deduction allowed.

Secondly, we'd have to know what the pregnancy rate with no sex ed (or abstinence-only ed, amounts to the same thing) would have been. Without that, this anecdote says absolutely nothing regarding your claims.

This is can be derived from private schools as opposed to localized public schools so you can match both location and economic stature
Thirdly, you've carefully selected a city with one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the U.S. (which, of course, are the highest among the developed nations.) So it's not just an anecdote, it's a biased one, which further voids any conclusion you might like to draw from it.

Wrong wrong wrong, national average is closer to 30%

Fourthly - despite your continued trumpeting of this anecdote - you're WAY wrong about the rate of teen pregnancy in Cleveland. I'm gonna be polite and assume you're just dumb as a rock, and not lying through your rotted-out meth-teeth.


You're an idiot; and I don't have to guess.
Shut up and crawl back under your rock, you slime-sucking ... it would be an insult to planarians to call you a flatworm.

Or, if you are actually a vertebrate - stand up, take your medicine, and apologize for your existence.

[David Witherspoon]

Deal 'em if you got 'em.

Though I don't think anyone was holding back for fear of hurting my feelings.

[hutash]

You're an idiot; and I don't have to guess.
Shut up and crawl back under your rock, you slime-sucking ... it would be an insult to planarians to call you a flatworm.

Or, if you are actually a vertebrate - stand up, take your medicine, and apologize for your existence.

I love a good biology based cut down:biggrin: Unfortunately Crud is going to have to go to a dictionary to look up "Planarians", and since I doubt he knows how to operate a dictionary the comment will be completely lost on him.:rolleyes:

[whatcomridaz]

Too lazy for multiple quotes

1. Abstinence statistics are available although localized, however they can be matched against other regional statistics along both age and economic lines. Last time I looked abstinence delayed sexual activity, although the overall pregnancy rate remains approximately the same. I personally would rather kids wait an extra year or two to fuck and if that means a few years of responsible abstinence bs decoupled from religious views I'm ok with that.


2. Cleavland is below the National average for pregnancy which is approx 30%


Deal 'em if you got 'em.

Though I don't think anyone was holding back for fear of hurting my feelings.

[yonskion]

You've got until tomorrow to revise your post, whatcom.
If it's not fixed by then, you'll have your head served to you on a silver platter.
Probably not even by me.

Hint: What, by definition, is a "rate"?
:eek: I have not seen Jong Slauther all day and there has been enough.

[David Witherspoon]

I'm tired of being brutal today, so consider yourself lucky, whatcom.

The teen pregnancy rate, nationwide, is not anywhere near 30%. [insert two pages of abuse at this point]

That rate is typically reported as the number of pregnancies per 1,000 females aged 15-17 in an area.
Cleveland has a pretty ordinary rate. Not even anywhere near 20%, let alone 30%.

Closer to ~3%.

But hey, what's an order of magnitude among friends.
As long as you're gettin' the check.

[The AD]

Last time I looked abstinence delayed sexual activity

OK, that one's hard to argue with :)

[TruckeeLocal]

The latest reported rate in Ohio was 39.5 per 1000 teenagers, i.e. 4%

[BFD]

clear things up for you Tuckerman. Individual Alaskans have no state taxes. Only federal and some local taxes. They anounced this morning the permanent fund will be over $2000, highest ever. Couple this with the $1200 energy handout, each resident will be getting over $3200. That is every man women and chid that qualifies as a resident. That money is subject to federal taxes. Gee thik it is hard to be popular? The skyrocketing oil prices have filled the state coffers. Easy to be self righteous when you really don't need the money. I work in the construction industry and presently there is more work than people to do the work. How's the economy in New Hampshire?

[Crud's Uncle]

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/4885861/detail.html

Actually, it is 20%.

[Jer]

Here she is, gettin her drink on.... she's the one in Blue.
Now that isn't to say that I hadn't had a few drinks by the time I was 16, but my mom also isn't running for VP.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2d8ib1k.jpg

Yeah that and you were gay. Just like you are now.

Stop picking on our kids. Sarah's gonna kick your fucking ass.

[squatch]

Yeah that and you were gay. Just like you are now.

Stop picking on our kids. Sarah's gonna kick your fucking ass.

all the logging in and out must get cumbersome.

[TruckeeLocal]

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/4885861/detail.html

Actually, it is 20%.
Hey pencil dick, that's one specific school in Ohio. I quoted the rate for Ohio. Disagree with referenced govmnt stats again and it'll turn into a Jer! style ski-iff.

[P_McPoser]

Embarassed ? For one, I proudly walk to the cashier with my box of XL supersized condoms. What's wrong with you ?

Oh, and I like Cliff, and Rontele, and Tippster.
Good Idea! Much cheape than a white flag! ;)
I like those guys too


valley trash at its finest
How's that whole pebble mine protest going :rolleyes2

[basinbeater]

Yeah that and you were gay. Just like you are now.

Stop picking on our kids. Sarah's gonna kick your fucking ass.


Jer, read the fuckin thread before you say stupid shit. I am not picking on the daughter. I am pointing out that someone who advocates certain religious and moral practices can't get her own family to practice them, (meaning they don't work) so why the he'll would we want to elect someone who wants to make those screwed up positions law? Again, please read the thread.

[David Witherspoon]

Hey pencil dick, that's one specific school in Ohio.
Oh, it's much worse than just that.
:FIREdevil
Sure, cherry-picking one example from hundreds of thousands to prove a point is, well, pointless; but this final demonstration of CU's perfectly thorough incompetence absolutely beggars the imagination.

I figured that report was where he got his 20%. Found it with a quick search this morning. Couldn't be sure, of course - hard to believe anyone could be that dumb and careless - and at the same time so persistently sure of himself.
So instead of tugging on that rope, I just tied it off firmly for later use. Had plenty of other ammo lying around anyway. :biggrin:



Sure enough, CU just snugged up the noose and took a flying leap off the cliff.

Here's the line CU tried to read:
"Cleveland's rate is 20 percent."

What exactly is this rate they're talking about?
Tuff question, fer sure ... you'd have to be able to look upscreen a few lines and read one really complificated sentence:
"104 of the 586 babies born to Canton residents in Aultman Hospital and Mercy Medical Center had mothers between 11 and 19."

So. The "rate" they're talking about is:
The proportion of babies whose mothers were 11-19 years of age.
Call it the "babies born to teen mothers" rate.

The rate of teen pregnancy is (by the definition of "rate"):
The proportion of teen females (11-19 if you like, but 15-17 by convention) that have become pregnant during some time period (typically one year).

The teen pregnancy rate for the one high school discussed is 65/490 = 13.3%. (In case it's not clear to you, CU: 13% is not 20%).

The difference should be clear enough to most adults, so I'd appreciate it if somebody would explain it to our resident box of rocks.

For sure, 13.3% is a pretty damn high rate - but it's one high school, not Cleveland. There are undoubtedly schools and neighborhoods in Cleveland with zero teen pregnancy rates. There was one tiny neighborhood with a higher rate (extra credit - show how sample size matters).

But what do those examples prove? Why did CU not choose to trumpet one of those? Why did he choose, and then distort, an example that he thinks supports his views? ... things that make you go "hmmmm ..."



I will say, though - his last post was short, almost subdued sounding. Laughably off-base, but not as cocksure. That's an improvement - cocksure and rockdumb don't mix well.


But, after all this, I think I'm beginning to understand his unreasoned fear of anything relating to abortion -
So here's a word of advice, CU: keep your mouth shut and just smile endearingly at people when they look your way.
That way they'll never realize that you're somewhat less intelligent than the average sixteen-cell embryo, and they won't consider aborting you.

[TWGIO Alias]

Good job with the quck sign-out Witherspoon. It shows great pride on your part being able to distance yourself from objection.

Way to fucking go!

Helpful tip, fuck you, and fuck everyone around you. j/k.

Seriously, you've been nothing but help. Later.
http://politicalderby.com/wp-admin/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/obama-latin-large.jpg

[MrZach]

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u292/mrzach93/LOLCAT/roflbot5-9.jpg

[Dantheman]

I'll take that 1% any day for science class learning evolution or even history class. I guess we disagree that's why my child goes to private school I pay for learning for actual learning based on science.

Actually I pay for both but my kids not subjected to the morals and god theories of others in public school.

So why are you supporting a candidate that wants creationism taught in science classes?

[David Witherspoon]

:confused:

Good job with the quck
Whatever you're smoking, Twiggy - no thanks.

[Tuckerman]

clear things up for you Tuckerman. Individual Alaskans have no state taxes. Only federal and some local taxes. They anounced this morning the permanent fund will be over $2000, highest ever. Couple this with the $1200 energy handout, each resident will be getting over $3200. That is every man women and chid that qualifies as a resident. That money is subject to federal taxes. Gee thik it is hard to be popular? The skyrocketing oil prices have filled the state coffers. Easy to be self righteous when you really don't need the money. I work in the construction industry and presently there is more work than people to do the work. How's the economy in New Hampshire?

The economy in NH is not growing. I would love it if our dumb Governor could bring back some of the money we payed to the feds in taxes to help with some growth. I like the idea of bring the money back to the states, and local level and taking it out of the hands of the feds who just spend, spend , spend. I would like it better if the feds never took any money in the first place or at least not as much.

[whatcomridaz]

I'm tired of being brutal today, so consider yourself lucky, whatcom.

The teen pregnancy rate, nationwide, is not anywhere near 30%. [insert two pages of abuse at this point]

That rate is typically reported as the number of pregnancies per 1,000 females aged 15-17 in an area.
Cleveland has a pretty ordinary rate. Not even anywhere near 20%, let alone 30%.

Closer to ~3%.



But hey, what's an order of magnitude among friends.
As long as you're gettin' the check.

My mistake in not clarifying, the 30% is for the number of women that get pregnant before the age of 20 (and yes it's a quote from the cdc). I assumed Unkle Buck was using a similar under 20 based statistic. Obviously I shouldn't depend on a meat polisher for statistics, guess I'll take my lumps on that one.

As for the other point, abstinence programs like "postponing sexual involvement" in ATL, that advocate delaying sexual activity have shown very promising results in reducing the copulation rate of 7-9th graders.

[David Witherspoon]

I'm sure you'll forgive me for requesting a link to that quote and a reference to the research on those "promising results."
It's not that I don't trust you - I just like to verify. I'm conservative that way. ;)

"It appears that the social conservatism that is characteristic of Southern states does not protect against early pregnancy and childbearing."
And other interesting observations, in this CDC study on rates and trends of teen sexual activity, pregnancy, abortion. (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3634/is_200011/ai_n8915639/pg_10?tag=artBody;col1)
Warning to Crud-types: contains numbers and complicated sentences.

Take it away, gents, I'm off this weekend.

Next week - with the nominations & conventions out of the way - we'll finally get started on the real election debate.
:FIREdevil

[iscariot]

I don't think the schools should be teaching anything to do with the morality of sex, or the enjoyment of sex. That should be the parents job.

Incest is best! Pervert! :D

Suddenly I'm reminded of... (NSFW but funny as hell...WARNING...May contain Monty Python content)
http://www.rockymusic.org/showvideo/16c56d5f6225f48b7f3f62e1a6b7797c.php

[whatcomridaz]

Sure but you're making this easy for me

I guess you could just do the math, 7 years * 4% or use the CDC's fact sheet http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/AdolescentReproHealth/

as for PSI
http://life.familyeducation.com/sex/teen/36175.html
http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/assets/0/78/1067/1069/1107/1109/5663/a131e2fa-527a-4745-9531-627e7e450fea.pdf
http://www.promisingpractices.net/program.asp?programid=29

Yes I know there are other studies that show less effectiveness that noted in the above links.

But admit it, the reluctance to support abstinence as a means for postponing sexual involvement is really just a charade, you're really just pissed at getting turned down by 6th-8th graders. I mean what has the world come to when telling your son or daughter you love them just isn't enough to get in their pants anymore.



I'm sure you'll forgive me for requesting a link to that quote and a reference to the research on those "promising results."
It's not that I don't trust you - I just like to verify. I'm conservative that way. ;)

"It appears that the social conservatism that is characteristic of Southern states does not protect against early pregnancy and childbearing."
And other interesting observations, in this CDC study on rates and trends of teen sexual activity, pregnancy, abortion. (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3634/is_200011/ai_n8915639/pg_10?tag=artBody;col1)
Warning to Crud-types: contains numbers and complicated sentences.

Take it away, gents, I'm off this weekend.

Next week - with the nominations & conventions out of the way - we'll finally get started on the real election debate.
:FIREdevil

[LAN]

I see two potential solutions:
1. convince teens not to have sex
2. get teens to use birth control

My position is that the first one doesn't work.

Ultimately it comes down to health/reproductive education, access to contraceptive services and self respect. Obviously Palin's daughter didn't use birth control and slipped through the cracks of her mother's own moral fortress.

I think for unintended pregnancies, especially within the teenage population, it's a bigger issue than just slapping on a condom. There's a respect issue of both men and women, access to services, the ability to think about the ramifications of unintended pregnancies and the access to safe and legal abortions (can you imagine trying to have an abortion in the Palin home? Shit).

I can say that as a woman and a mother, that girl's life is fucked.

[Hutch]

Ultimately it comes down to health/reproductive education, access to contraceptive services and self respect. Obviously Palin's daughter didn't use birth control and slipped through the cracks of her mother's own moral fortress.

I think for unintended pregnancies, especially within the teenage population, it's a bigger issue than just slapping on a condom. There's a respect issue of both men and women, access to services, the ability to think about the ramifications of unintended pregnancies and the access to safe and legal abortions (can you imagine trying to have an abortion in the Palin home? Shit).

I can say that as a woman and a mother, that girl's life is fucked.

Look who's here!

[Jer]

Jer, read the fuckin thread before you say stupid shit. I am not picking on the daughter. I am pointing out that someone who advocates certain religious and moral practices can't get her own family to practice them, (meaning they don't work) so why the he'll would we want to elect someone who wants to make those screwed up positions law? Again, please read the thread.

Ok - went back and re-read it. I stand by my original assertation that you are gay.
































...and a loser.

[PNWbrit]

can you imagine trying to have an abortion in the Palin home?

Perhaps they could put a tarp over the rug in the family room?

[David Witherspoon]

Sure but you're making this easy for meI ain't tryna make it hard.


the CDC's fact sheet http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/AdolescentReproHealth/ I'm a "go to the source" kinda guy. So, from the strongest research article among the sources you listed as well as those cited by that CDC infosheet:

Implications
What policy recommendations arise from our results? Although more adolescents in the United States are delaying initiation of sexual intercourse, the impact of this change on pregnancy risk is small and confined to younger teenagers (i.e., 15- to 17-year-olds). Overall, increasing rates of contraceptive use appear to be the primary determinant of declining pregnancy rates between 1995 and 2002, and this assessment appears to be consistent with the pattern in other developed countries. Public policies and programs in the United States and elsewhere should vigorously promote provision of accurate information on contraception and on sexual behavior and relationships, support increased availability and accessibility of contraceptive services and supplies for adolescents, and promote the value of responsible and protective behaviors, including condom and contraceptive use and pregnancy planning.
Abstinence promotion is a worthwhile goal, particularly among younger teenagers; however, the scientific evidence shows that, in itself, it is insufficient to help adolescents prevent unintended pregnancies. The current emphasis of US domestic and global policies, which stress abstinence-only sex education to the exclusion of accurate information on contraception, is misguided. Similar approaches should not be adopted by other nations.
Santelli JS, Lindberg LD, Finer LB, Singh S. Explaining recent declines in adolescent pregnancy in the United States: the contributions of abstinence and improved contraceptive use. American Journal of Public Health 2007;97(1):150–156.
In short: encouraging abstinence reduces teen pregnancy rates some. Contraception education reduces them more. Insisting on abstinence-only education is "misguided."

I don't think you even disagree with that conclusion - nothing surprising about it; but there are many who do, for religious reasons.


as for PSI
...
Yes I know there are other studies that show less effectiveness that noted in the above links. Nothing personal, but those "studies" are not peer-reviewed research - and a quick scan is enough to show why. Fulla holes.
If you really care enough to defend them, try it, and I'll mow them down & replace them with solid peer-reviewed research articles demonstrating the weakness of abstinence-only wishful thinking.


But admit it, the reluctance to support abstinence :confused:
I do support abstinence education - as part of rational, fact-based, effective and realistic sex education. Is there anyone who thinks abstinence should not be taught at all?
:confused:
No? I thought not. That's a straw man.

I do not support the religious right's push to get the Federal gov't to bribe states to get them to stop teaching realistic and more effective sex ed.

I get the feeling you don't either.

But Palin does. McCain does. The Republican Party does.

And the predictable, observed results of their plan are: more teenage pregnancies than there would have been if comprehensive sex ed were encouraged instead of discouraged.

What is it they're trying to achieve with this "plan"? Who's paying the price for their blind ideological slavishness?
If you decide to take an action whose consequences are readily predictable, aren't you responsible for those consequences? As in, GUILTY?

"The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Albert Einstein

[Tuckerman]

So why are you supporting a candidate that wants creationism taught in science classes?

I'm not, Palin said during her 2006 gubernatorial campaign that she would not push the state Board of Education to add creation-based alternatives to the state’s required curriculum, or look for creationism advocates when she appointed board members. She has kept this pledge, according to the Associated Press.

Palin has spoken in favor of classroom discussions of creationism, in some cases. “I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum,” Palin told the Anchorage Daily News in a 2006 interview.



(See: ‘Creation science’ enters the race; Palin is only candidate to suggest it should be discussed in schools. By Tom Kizzia, Anchorage Daily News, 27 October 2006)

[divegirl]

BTW I predict this kind of a campaign being run by the democrats will result in another win for the republicans, so by all means keep it up.
No offense tuckerman, but you're misguided, and so are all the other repubs who think the democrats as a majority attacked Palin.

If you recall, Obama himself said that issues of children of the nominees should be kept private. Do your research.

The overall view that democrats took to the stage about Palin's daughter is fed by the media, and oftentimes the media isn't wholly left-leaning, so ... in a few words, get a clue people.

[TruckeeLocal]

If you recall, Obama himself said that issues of children of the nominees should be kept private. Do your research.
You might want to consider WHY Obama doesn't want to touch this issue with a 20' barge pole. Do your research about his unwed teenage mother. Any Obama supported who might consider attacking Palin may want to take this into account. Some, the less thoughtfull ones, have not. My guess is the Republicans would welcome such an attack.

[Powow]

You might want to consider WHY Obama doesn't want to touch this issue with a 20' barge pole. Do your research about his unwed teenage mother. Any Obama supported who might consider attacking Palin may want to take this into account. Some, the less thoughtfull ones, have not. My guess is the Republicans would welcome such an attack.
Who knows know how many times this has been pointed out, but:

No one cares about the simple fact that her daughter is pregnant. What people care about is the hypocrisy of saying she is proud of her daughter's choice to keep the baby while being anti-choice. She is either truly proud of her daughter's choice, and being anti-choice is hypocritical, or she is truly anti-choice, and then her daughter couldn't have had a choice at all.

[TruckeeLocal]

Who knows know how many times this has been pointed out, but:

No one cares about the simple fact that her daughter is pregnant. What people care about is the hypocrisy of saying she is proud of her daughter's choice to keep the baby while being anti-choice. She is either truly proud of her daughter's choice, and being anti-choice is hypocritical, or she is truly anti-choice, and then her daughter couldn't have had a choice at all.

It seems you're carefully ignoring the hypocrisy of criticizing a family in order to advance another's career where the same criticism can be levelled. Hence the issue is a non-issue. Except on anonymous message boards where personal morals can be safely judged.

Edit. Check that - the issue is real, just unapproachable in the context of the presidential race.

[Powow]

It seems you're carefully ignoring the hypocrisy of criticizing a family in order to advance another's career where the same criticism can be levelled. Hence the issue is a non-issue. Except on anonymous message boards where personal morals can be safely judged.

Edit. Check that - the issue is real, just unapproachable in the context of the presidential race.
Dude. No one is criticizing her family. They are criticizing her anti-choice position, by showing that she is not internally consistent on the issue.

[TruckeeLocal]

Dude. No one is criticizing her family. They are criticizing her anti-choice position, by showing that she is not internally consistent on the issue.
Fine. Attack. And Palin will trot out a stunned and confused looking 17 year old trying to make sense of the enormity of the choice she doesn't have. Women love that sympathy stuff apparently. Evil Dems taking advantage of an innocent (but pregnant) kid with a dumb looking boyfriend who's now involved in a shotgun wedding.

[Powow]

Fine. Attack. And Palin will trot out a stunned and confused looking 17 year old trying to make sense of the enormity of the choice she doesn't have. Women love that sympathy stuff apparently. Evil Dems taking advantage of an innocent (but pregnant) kid with a dumb looking boyfriend who's now involved in a shotgun wedding.
So you are saying that republicans are too fucking stupid to argue the point without a huge strawman fallacy?

[Rubicon]

No offense tuckerman, but you're misguided, and so are all the other repubs who think the democrats as a majority attacked Palin.

... in a few words, get a clue people.



The majority doesn't have to attack Palin for there to be a backlash from the electorate. A vocal few can cause problems for the silent majority if they can make the public think that their views are shared by that majority.

[Rubicon]

What people care about is the hypocrisy of saying she is proud of her daughter's choice to keep the baby while being anti-choice. She is either truly proud of her daughter's choice, and being anti-choice is hypocritical, or she is truly anti-choice, and then her daughter couldn't have had a choice at all.


You are missing a third option. She is pro life(there is no such thing as "anti-choice" there is only a disagreement about when that choice can be made[/troll]) and still allowed her daughter the freedom to determine her own destiny.

I have known many religious families who did not demigod their kid's lives. Once the kids hit 16/17yo they were free to make their own decisions with the understanding that they would have to live with the consequences of their decisions, for better or worse.

I don't know anything about the family but this third option would allow for the situation to exist as it does without there having to be lies and hypocrisy.

[Tippster]

Bill Maher just fucking skewered this whole situation. That was funny a shit.

[Powow]

You are missing a third option. She is pro life(there is no such thing as "anti-choice" there is only a disagreement about when that choice can be made[/troll]) and still allowed her daughter the freedom to determine her own destiny.

I have known many religious families who did not demigod their kid's lives. Once the kids hit 16/17yo they were free to make their own decisions with the understanding that they would have to live with the consequences of their decisions, for better or worse.

I don't know anything about the family but this third option would allow for the situation to exist as it does without there having to be lies and hypocrisy.
So she isn't a demigod in her kid's life, she just wants to be a demigod to everyone else in the country! Definitely no hypocrisy there!

[skifishbum]

7 pages of political asshattery, teen sex and birthcontrol, and no der poopenhausen, not even in the tags.
This place is going to hell.

[hutash]

^^^the republican party says we can not attack the family personally, and I for one believe everything the republican party tells me to do:rolleyes: