muscle recovery (kinda nsr)

[ulty_guy]

so, as it comes as no surprise, i play ultimate. that means 3, 90 minute matches/day on a weekend and a big tournaments, 2, 90 minute matches/day for a week. in ultimate, you run a shitload and preparing your body for this kind of stress and neccessary recover is pretty tough. a week long tournament feel like 7 weight lifting session in a row using the same muscle. i'm only 27, and waking up the day after playing still takes a while, and it also takes a while to get yesterday's lead out of the legs.

besides cooling down and stretching, what other tricks can be used in order to help muscles recover better? i'm pretty religious about getting 4:1 carb: protein in within 30 minutes of finishing, i don't take any supplements. i've heard that Pre-Pair (prickly pear cactus extract) is supposed to be quite good in helping your body recover day in/day out. anything else?

[Arnold Babar]

I'll try to restrainmyself from giving you shit about taking frisbee so seriously. To each his own. Ultimate is a great game. I have found coral calcium suppliments to help recovery a little.

[snow_slider]

I used to play ultimate, but now (at 38) I'm just too old. Ultimate is DEFINITELY a young person's game. We used to call that morning after feeling "disc hangover".

One of the things I used to do was lay on my back and prop my legs up in the air perpendicularly. I'd lay like this for about 5 minutes, then massage my calfs and thighs with a downward (toe to hip) motion. This helps flush lactic acid out of the muscles and definitely helped my legs feel "fresher" the next day.

[ulty_guy]

babar- it's not as much about taking ultimate very seriously as it is about learning how your body works, etc. i'm actually one of the few people at a higher level who doesn't take the game too seriously. i even had to break up a near mele involving the top british and swedish teams this past weekend. trust me, i know it's just a game. on the flip side, i like to push my body as far as i can possibly go, i think it's a great feeling.

p.s. yes, i actually do take calcium/magnesium, forgot about that.

[Arnold Babar]

There is supposedly something about calcium that is harvested from coral reefs (no damage is done) that is better than other calciums. The body absorbs it at a higher rate or something. I really don't know what I'm talking about, but when I took it while marathon training, it seemed to help recovery time. I actually wish I'd known about high level ultimate when I was younger. I throw a mean disc, and I was pretty fast back in the day.

[Vinman]

As far a muscle recovery goes, your body will abosrb carbohydrates at a faster rate if you eat within 30 min after completeing an event. Adding a small amount of protien will also aid recovery. By smal amount I mean approximately 1 gram of protien for every 4 grams of carbohydrate. This is somewhat dependant on bodyw weight you can comsume ~ 1 gram of protein per 10 lb of body with and 4x that for carbs.

Electrolyes and hydration are also key. Key electrolyes like calcium, sodium and potassium are very important to replace. Re-hydrating is also important. A good sports drink like gatorade or accelerade, etc are a good choice to replace both.

Other things like cool-cold water lower extremity soaks right after intense exercise have also been tried with so-so results. Results for these types of things are kind of specific to the individual.

Don't get too wrapped up in the supplement ideas. IN general, having proper fitness and nutrition will go a long way. Also don't forget to stretch properly especially for those back to back day tournaments and make sure to warm up well.

[13]

I used to play in weekend-long soccer tourneys, with 3 maybe 4 games a day. After each game, our coach had us jog lightly for ~15 minutes and then walk for another 5 minutes as a cool-down. I hated doing it but it helped in addition to the carb/protein refueling.

I played midfield so I did most of the running on the team and I think it helped.

Something to think about?

[Viva]

Carbohydrates immediately after an excercise session never did squat for me. But I did steady running and not the more explosive start & go stuff that I imagine you must do. The best recovery for me is to go for an easy run or ride the day after getting hammered.

Strongly agree on the importance of hydration and maintaining electrolyte balance.

[non grata]

as far as flushing lactic acid from your legs after a workout, try putting your legs up perpendicularly on a wall for 5-10 minutes.

[EPSkis]

This kid's got an interesting viewpoint on the relationship between hydration & muscle development. I wonder if there's been other studies into this. (Considering the article's 4yrs old.)

Basically you "superhydrate" yourself the day before, of, and after your event. Can't hurt to test the theory:

Proposed theory of the relationship between Lactic Acid & Muscle Growth (http://www.naturalstrength.com/research/detail.asp?ArticleID=206)

edit: It's also been stated elsewhere that elevating your legs could actually be detrimental to the recovery of the leg muscle. Lactic acid builds up in the cells of the muscle tissue. Since elevating your legs reduces blood flow, it may actually LENGTHEN the amount of time it takes for the lactic acid to be "flushed" from your legs.

[Viva]

Originally posted by EPSkis

Basically you "superhydrate" yourself the day before, of, and after your event. Can't hurt to test the theory:

But now you risk hyponatremia and hypykalemia, essentially reduced concentrations of essential electrolytes. Not good.

[ulty_guy]

hyponatremia is absolutely no joke. 2 close friends of mine have almost died from it. a couple of things you can do to prevent it is taking the calcium/mag stuff that we've been talking about and also taking glycerin (a sore throat remedy) with your sports drink cause it helps you piss less. when you supersaturate, you risk pissing away (literally) your electrolytes.

[Vinman]

The point I was going for was replenishing glycogen stores, not for decreasing soreness. During an event like ultimate you are going to definitely deplete stores, proper nutrition post-event is the key to having enough energy for the next games.

IMHO the soreness is almost unavoidable. The best thing I could tell you is to try a good cool down and stretch. Then later after you body has cooled down stretch again, maybe try getting in a pool or hot tub combined with a lot of stretching.

And if you are really serious about your performance, try to limit or stay away from booze. Although booze does have carbo caloric substance it is not the same eating carbs. Unless it is Sauza Hornitos sans lemon or salt.:)

[EPSkis]

Originally posted by Viva
But now you risk hyponatremia and hypykalemia, essentially reduced concentrations of essential electrolytes. Not good.

I suppose that's true - the article does specifically state "water", though he didn't mention any electrolyte replacement drinks.

[DougW]

What about MSM, vitamin C and vitamin E ?

[lph]

Originally posted by DougW
What about MSM, vitamin C and vitamin E ?

Ya, that is what i was going to add. Both vitamin E and C are supposed to help heal damaged tissue. Vit E, in high doses, 1000 IU is used by weightlifters to help muscles recover more quickly and decrease 'soreness'.

Viva may know more about this than me, but a recent study suggested that Vit E did absolutely nothing to decrease skin scar formation, but that Vit C was found to have a beneficial effect in tissue healing. Also, in addition to it's anti-inflammatory properties i believe ibuprofen speeds tissue healing as well (i was told this by a surgeon, but don't quote me on this point).

arty50 told me icy cold showers after a brutal muscle destroying day is key. (like what vinman is suggesting).

[shmerham]

From Lance Armstrong's trainer (I'm writing for an ultimate perspective):

1. Pre-tournament meals - preferably every day, but starting at least the day before; whole grains, vegetables, roughly 50% carbs, 25% each of protein and fat; plenty of water
2. Morning nutrition - 40% carbs, 30, 30 (ie, balance bar), soy protein seems to help, consume 200 calories every hour until the first game
3. warm up - at least 25 minutes, closer to an hour is better, given the spikes in effort and length of time
4. one gel or 24 oz of gatorade every 30 to 45 minutes (a 4:1 carb to protein ratio tends to work here). Salt is found in gatorade, it's pretty key here, because it's necessary to keep your muscles from cramping
5. Carb, protein, and fluid replacement. Aftermarket recovery drinks or 5 tbs of sugar w/ 16 oz of skim milk or 2 servings of whey protein powder with water. I do gatorade and a powerbar protein bar. IMHO, you need more protein than a 4:1 ratio at this time; more like 2:1 or 3:1.
6. Cool down and stretching - very light running or fast walking for close to 15 minutes but no longer; stretch, cool down, stretch
7. Post-tournament: get off your feet as much as possible and stay out of the sun.
8. Post-tournament meals: avoid soda, white rice, energy drinks, candy, etc (stuff with lots of sugar). Plenty of sodium. This is a toughy in ultimate, but avoid alcohol.
9. Sleep - plenty of it

I've heard cold showers help, or alternating between cold and hot water. You could also ice your muscles after you've taken plenty of time to cool down.

[ulty_guy]

thanks for all the help, guys! i stick to quite a bit of what's been said, but i'm probably not as good of a cooler-downer as i could be, and i do have the occasional beer (but just 1 or 2 w/ dinner). i take 1,000 mg of C every day, so it's good to hear even more positive news on that front. the post-tourney- no simple sugars and carbs thing is pretty interesting.

[shmerham]

Do you play on a club team? Which one?

[ulty_guy]

i play for clapham which is a london based club team, and i'll be playing for the great brittain national team this summer at the country world championships in finland. used to play for new york before i moved here about 2.5 years ago.

[Woolmer]

Hi guy. I have some information about muscle recovery which I want to share with you.
Aangamik DMG (http://www.nutrovita.com/2922/foodscience-of-vermont/aangamik-dmg.htm)
A dietary supplement to support immune system, circulatory, cardiovascular, and neurological functions; muscle recovery and endurance. Dimethylglycine (DMG) is a nutrient that is found in the cells of both plants and animals. The human body prduces DMG in very small amounts. Supplementing the diet with higher levels of DMG greatly improves the nutritional environment of the cell. Dimethylglycine has been found effective in supporting immune system function and better utilization of oxygen at the cellular level. We have been issued four U.S. Patents for N, N-Dimethylglycine's value and use in improving immunity and for benefiting cellular processes. DMG reduces lactic acid build up in the muscle thereby shortening recovery time after strenuous exercise and improving endurance. DMG can benefit everyone regardless of age or activity level. Gluconic DMG 250 is 250 mg of DMG in a great tasting chewable tablet sweetened with xylitol.
I hope this information will be useful for you guys.

[linds-o-rama]

What about glutamine? I tried it during the ski season last year, but wasn't sure if it was doing anything.