Car mags: broken ball joint?

[focus]

I finally got my winter tires switched out on our '02 Camry - the wife's ride. The shop that did the switch told me I needed new brake pads and rotors on the front, and offered to do it for me for $260. I said eff that, it'll cost me $60 in parts, and the rotors actually look like they're in good shape (I can see my beautiful self in them) - so $30 for new pads. That $230 I save is only $30 away from a new pair of dukes from jessejones.

So I go to turn off the lug nuts (by hand) on the passenger side and three of the five studs break right off. ???? Not a huge deal, I suppose, though I'm not sure wtf happened at that shop that a scrawny little guy like me can turn off three studs w/ minimal effort. Maybe it's wrong to blame them, I dunno.... but I'm glad they broke on me, and not on the road w/ my kids in the back. Anyhow, the real point of this thread is:

So I put the car on jackstands, and go to inspect the other wheel. Before I even pull off the hubcap, I notice the wheel has quite a bit of play. Like, I can grab the tire and pull the wheel in and out significantly. Not to blame this on the shop, but I'd like to think a good shop would notice something like that.

What's my likely diagnosis? Ball joint? What else may it be? I'm trying to figure out if this is something I want to tackle, or if I should replace the studs and get it to a (different) shop.

[PNW Skier]

My truck does that sa,e thing when a hub goes. But when that happens it also rides really rough then when you turn one direction at speed it smooths out till you are going straight down the road again.

[BushwackerinPA]

Former Mechanic here....

On the lug nuts that is most likely there fault, some shops will just crank down the lug nuts with out using a torque bar on there guns. this will cause lug nuts to strip and the studs to streach, which cause issues down the road, ie broken studs.

On the ball joint/hub the hub will be movement inside well the hub and the quickest way to check the ball joint is to put a crow bar on it and pry on it gently you will be able to tell right away if it should be replaced.

[focus]

I'm going to pick up some new studs this afternoon -- would you recommend new lug nuts too?

[BushwackerinPA]

I'm going to pick up some new studs this afternoon -- would you recommend new lug nuts too?

yep, I would also recommend anti seize(copper like coating that prevents rust), and torqueing excactly like the manufactor specified.

[jon turner]

I said eff that, it'll cost me $60 in parts, and the rotors actually look like they're in good shape (I can see my beautiful self in them) - so $30 for new pads.

Make sure you get the rotors checked by your auto parts shop. They can check them for proper thickness. Also, just because they look good visually, does not mean they are a little warped or not completely true. As they wear on the pads, they likely do not wear evenly. It's best to at least get them machined back true if they are thick enough. It costs almost as much as a new rotor sometimes, though.

[focus]

Yeah, it's the hub. Any idea how big of a pain in the ass it will be to swap a hub on a camry? I've about resigned myself to pay somebody the extra $100 in labor to do it for me..... I'm not hopeless w/ tools and cars, but I'd be learning as I go and I'm pretty sure I won't have all the right tools.

(studs/pads/etc. are all taken care of)

[karpiel]

Yeah, it's the hub. Any idea how big of a pain in the ass it will be to swap a hub on a camry? I've about resigned myself to pay somebody the extra $100 in labor to do it for me..... I'm not hopeless w/ tools and cars, but I'd be learning as I go and I'm pretty sure I won't have all the right tools.

(studs/pads/etc. are all taken care of)

Go to local auto parts store and buy this (http://www.haynes.com/products/sfID1/3/sfID2/5/sfID3/46/productID/296).

"Haynes Automotive Repair Manual series: Extensive line of automotive repair manuals made for specific vehicle models. Each manual is written and photographed from “hands on” experience gained by a complete teardown and rebuild of the vehicle."

It will tell you how to do anything and everything. If you need any special tools, go back to the store and rent them. I have never spent a cent on labor on my 360k mile (480k mile motor) Subaru.

[BobMc]

Yeah, it's the hub. Any idea how big of a pain in the ass it will be to swap a hub on a camry? I've about resigned myself to pay somebody the extra $100 in labor to do it for me..... I'm not hopeless w/ tools and cars, but I'd be learning as I go and I'm pretty sure I won't have all the right tools.

(studs/pads/etc. are all taken care of)

It calls for 2.4 hours to replace the wheel bearing/hub. So, you'll likely be paying more than $100.00 to replace it. Figure in another $200 or so for parts.

The spindle has to be removed and the bearing pressed out, not something a novice will find fun in his driveway.

BobMc

[BushwackerinPA]

why not take it to Bobmc?:)

[jon turner]

You can pull the spindle and take it with the new bearing to a local shop to have the bearing swapped, then reinstall the spindle yourself. I haven't ever worked on a camry, but I've done this with other cars I've had. I think the shop charged me 15 or 20 to do the bearing for me, and I did all the rest of the work. Check the repair manual to see what all is involved to get the spindle off, probably just have to disconnect the ball joint, tie rod end, strut, and drive shaft bolt from the spindle, but it might be a little different than that. Note: you might need an allignment check after doing all that.

[gaijin]

first of all- find a shop that has a project being built in the back room. If they don't build in their free-time, they're worthless.

2nd- who cares what it costs? I've seen wheels fall off of cars from sloppy lug work. Honestly. I was right behind that incident with my friend driving. Freaky shit.

If something this minor is causing a headache, you've got the wrong group of gear-heads turning wrenches. Find the kids in town who enjoy it- and look nowhere else. Trust me, those kids are in Every Town, USA. It's just that they likely suck at marketing.

just my .02

[XXX-er]

sounds like they over tightened the wheel nuts ... I wouldnt go back to them.A quality shops run the nuts in gently with an air gun and then uses a tork wrench and asks you to come back in 100kms to have the nuts retorked which all sounds like alot of overkill but uneven tork on a brake disk can warp them ... its not like working on a 58 buick anymore

often you need a pickle fork and airchisel ,sometimes a torchset for heat,to get suspension stuff apart ,wheel bearings should be torked to get the right bearing slop and then probably the front end should be aligned .If you got all this stuff its really easy, back in the day I can rememeber pulling clutches in and out of a muscle car in 15 minutes...with a hoist & air airwrenches its a piece of cake

I would take it to a couple of places till you find some one you like talking to( a place you trust) and get the pro to do it. Old cars were pretty easy ... you could replace the entire front end on a 62 chevy for 60$ ,align with a tape measure for some toe in and get sears to stick it on a machine for 12.95 ,its just not quite the same nowdays

that anti sieze compound mentioned above is also a good thing for thule rack threaded areas ,I missed a year and now my rack is stuck on the car

[karpiel]

It calls for 2.4 hours to replace the wheel bearing/hub. So, you'll likely be paying more than $100.00 to replace it. Figure in another $200 or so for parts.

The spindle has to be removed and the bearing pressed out, not something a novice will find fun in his driveway.

BobMc

I had to take one of my steering knuckles to someone to get a ball joint removed, after 5 seconds with a torch he had it out and didn't even want any money for doing it. It is still almost certain to end up cheaper doing the work yourself, and you don't need to trust the retard with an air wrench to do it right.

[birdman829]

That $230 I save is only $30 away from a new pair of dukes from jessejones.

*GASP*


What? Too soon?

[awake1563]

If you do the hub yourself... as stated previously you'll probably have to take the whole steering knuckle out, and have the hub/bearing unit assembly pressed at a shop (you can try doing it yourself w/ heat and cold, but it's a PITA)

A Few things... assuming that your small car uses a sealed, pressed bearing, instead of the old repackable style bearings. Most 90's and newer small cars do...

1) as long as you are reusing the suspension parts, use some sort of marker to mark the positions of all the suspension/alignment adjustments prior to disassembly. You could probably get away without doing an alignment if you do this and reassemble the parts with meticulous attention to the marks.

2) There is usually a specific order in which the hub/bearing/steering knuckly have to be pressed. If you have it pressed at an auto shop they should know this... If you take it to a machine shop I would recommend making sure they know the proper order... for my saturn, the bearing gets pressed into the knuckle first, then the hub into the knuckle. You should be able to tell by just looking at it and imagining how it would go together...

3)If you use a balljoint separator aka "picklefork" be prepared to demolish the rubber boot around the balljoint. this isn't a bad thing, just make sure to purchase the correct replacement boots (http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/tierboots.html) and have them at hand... clean the old grease out of the balljoint and pack it full of new grease while you're at it. The only way to avoid destroying it is to not use a picklefork... the best method is to use a BALL PEEN HAMMER... this is important... and rap on the side of the steering knuckle where the balljoint stud sticks through. This usually works, although I would have a picklefork and replacement boot ready.

4) As long is you are dealing with a sealed bearing unit that gets pressed into the knuckle/on the hub, no need to worry about adjusting the bearing play as another poster mention, that would only apply to the old school repackable bearings. Definitely have a manual and a torque wrench so you can torque the driveaxle nut, brake components et to the specified values.


Most of my experience is with saturns, but I'm pretty sure yota's use a similar design. the previously mentioned haynes or chilton manual should have this information.

Sucks about the studs... definitely the shops fault if three of them snapped... as for the rotors, if there's no pulsing in the pedal upon braking, the lateral runout is probably fine... meaning there's no reason to turn them. I wouldn't turn a rotor anyways, for the cost you might as well get a new pair, because the more material you take off the rotor, the less heat they are able to absorb, and the easier they will warp. Just make sure the thickness on yours is within tolerance.