House painting

[cmor]

So apparentlly the house needs to be painted. Looks fine to me but to my mother its a "trash heap". Anyway I'm home for summer, and figured I could tick it off by the time school starts up. Mainly because the estimates are running around $7000 smackers, and I could totally do it for cheaper. Unfortunatlly, I have no house painting experience. I'm thinking I could talk to some people who know whats up, get a book or two, and then get cracking. It'd be a huge job, but i've got 2 1/2 months. 2 1/2 months working full time. Think its possible? Perhaps I would have to employ a second. And how much would materials run? I'm a total house painting jong, so gimme yer opinion.

The way freaking too big house:

http://www.tetongravity.com/usergalleries/albums/userpics/10568/normal_housefront.jpg
Front

http://www.tetongravity.com/usergalleries/albums/userpics/10568/normal_houseback.jpg
Back

[INDY GS]

well first, wait for all that snow to melt! ;)

Second, get a good scraper and lots of sandpaper and a sanding block or you could use a pressure washer to clean all of the flakes off. Prepare the surface well, or the paint will peel soon after you put it on. Only scrape the areas that are peeling, if the paint has good adhesion, then there is no need to scrape off what is there.

Next go to your favorite big box hardware store, lowes/homedepot, get some high quality paint, I would start with 15-20 gallons for a house that size, but if you have measurements, then you could tell the paint store and they can estimate the amount you will need. Get a few brushes and some rollers, or be smart and rent a sprayer, this can make things fly.

Make your mom pay for materials. which should run youe well less than $1000.00 Have her pay you $3500-4500 for your hard work. This might take a week of working. Get said check, and save it for ski season.

[cmor]

This might take a week of working

I was thinking it would take way longer. I'd have to set up scaffolding, paint all the storm windows, take down the gutters and shades, paint those, the storm doors, put everything back up, and so on. I tossed around the idea of breaking out all the mountaineering equipment and setting up some huge rope system across the house instead of scaffolding and just self belaying myself around, but I think that idea is doomed to fail.

[house]

indy's got the idea. i painted last summer and if you dont wanna spend heinous amounts of time, def look into renting a sprayer. most of the time will be spent preparing the surface so the paint has a good smooth surface. we started by pressure washing the whole thing then scraping and sanding where necessary(scrape off peeling paint and sand rough spots). if you get a sprayer youll want to mask off everything before starting. its best to have a friend or even a few to help with this. one person should follow the sprayer around with a roller to run over the just-sprayed paint to smooth it out and prevent drips. and oh yea, if the you get down to bare wood(or other surface) cover it with some primer before painting.

so, yea its way easier to hire somebody, but damn 7grand is kinda steep, get some pizza and beer (and maybe some of mom's cash) and finding help shouldnt be too hard

edit: damn thats a big house. rounding up all the equipment and putting in the work might be worse than paying the pros. and do you really want to paint it, or does mom?

[drugged_monkey]

Do it. I say it's a weeks worth of hard work if you've got the right tools. The right tools make all the difference in any job. The sprayer and power washer sound great. Removing the shutters should be cake. You've only got one color to paint. No fancy details in other colors. I think this job will go surprisingly fast if you bust ass. Take the job. Be sure to negotiate a project price up front. When they see how quick it goes and how little there was to it they may want to pay you less.

Earlier this year I got estimates to do rough-in for making a master bath out of what was once a bedroom. The bids came in around $4000. In one week I read how to do the work myself (not much plumbing experience at all) and completed the project that same week. It cost me about $500 in materials and tools. I get to keep the tools I learned something new, and when you figure what I would've had to pay somebody else I made $3500 that week in my spare time. Rolling up the sleeves and doing a little manual labor can pay off big.

[cmor]

damn thats a big house. rounding up all the equipment and putting in the work might be worse than paying the pros. and do you really want to paint it, or does mom?

If I'm not painting the house, I'm busting my balls at some other thankless job. I figure I'd make the same either way, painting the whole stinkin house solo def. goes beyond the expected free housework coming from the son.

Personally I could care less whether the house has a fresh paint of coat on it or not. But if its gunna get done, might as well offer the services.

[Stikki]

1. Get job with college painting crew.
2. Work for a week or however long it takes to learn the skills and info you need (think of it as paid training).
3. Quit painting job then paint mom's house.

[Lostinthetrees]

I vote that you should paint it. Doing it yourself and with the long list of all you want to do, I would give yourself 200hrs.

You are on the right track.
1. See if you can pick-up some books w/ illustrations to give you some tips. Reader's Digest has some good home/house remo titles. Check at home center for pamphlets/softbound materials.
2. Scaffolding and walk boards. Rent it for at least a month. You should rent enough to cover (plus a couple feet each end) to cover the smallest end of the house. Having stable work positions will speed up the work. Looks like the ground is flat around house. Look into those motorized lifts. More expensive, but saves time tearing down and resetting scaffolding.
3. Pressure wash first, then scrape, then very lightly pressure wash again to remove dust. Let dry throughly before priming.
4. Purchase 5 gallon buckets of paint for the house body.
5. Rollers and screen in 5 gallon bucket. use rollers of different sizes to move the paint from the bucket to the house. After the paint is spread then use a 4 inch brush to finish. Find roller sizes (4", 6", etc.) to match various wood widths.
6. Plastic bags. Forget about clean-up (except your brushes). Cover paint buckets/pails for the night. Wrap rollers tightly in plastic bags.
7. Two - 16 - 20ft Tarps. needed to protect shrubbery, walks and driveway.
8. Windows. Leave storm windows in place. If you can I reco take the window sashes out. Scrape, re-glaze, and paint on the ground.

Nice looking house and location!

[slim]

I painted two summers. The kicker on this one is going to be the scaffolding set-up. A big house will require quite a bit of scaffolding which will be difficult and sketchy to put up if you're doing it by yourself and if you don't know what you're doing. Master this and everything else is cake. You may want to consider hiring a scaffolding company to do the scaffolding install... they deliver, set-up, and then tear down and take away.

Painting:
-Scrape where the paint is peeling with a scraper and a painters knife.
-If you love your mother and you want to spend the time... use an electric sander to blend where the old paint has chipped and peeled into where the old paint is still solid. If you don't you will see the patterns in the wood of where the old paint was peeling/failing.
-Use a tack cloth on the sanded wood to remove the dust from the sanding.
-Prime where bare wood is showing... this is mucho importanto to guarantee a long life of the paint job and the wood.
-Paint with a brush the edges and details that can't be rolled. Brush along the grain of the wood in as long of strokes as you can.
-Paint with a roller (and pan) the larger board siding of the house. Roll the length of the board (along the grain of the wood) from the start of a board to the end of a board. A coarse roller is just as effective/efficient as a sprayer and is way cheaper. Plus you won't have to mask off all the windows.
-Once painted with a roller, immediately come back with a brush finish. Paint in long single strokes the length of the board.
-Work board to board.

-Paint only in sections where you can complete an area that you started. Don't paint half a side or section one day and then come back and finish it the next day. This will guarantee the dry paint will look uniform.
-If you can't finish a whole section or side in one day or on one scaffolding set-up, paint from board to board from top to bottom. You will see where the boards start and stop once you get up close to the siding. Again this is ensure your paint color and brush stroke patterns look uniform when dry.

-EDIT- LITT's suggestions are all solid as well. When you get up there with a power washer... before you start going after it willy-nilly... inspect the wood for rot. If the siding is rotting your mom has bigger problems than simply a paint job... and using a power washer on rotting wood is going send it exploding off the house in chunks.

[DaveTV]

I did this for a living, and just finished my own house this weekend. You have one color there man(mine has FOUR), not much obstructions. FORGET about scaffolding,we never used it. Nothing but a hassle. You need mobility, ladders will do fine. There are a gazilion sites to tell you about how to do it. Good prep work is the key. Geta 6-way tool, all you need http://www.hydetools.com/cd_images/combined/ForB2B/01870.gif -sharpen it with a knife sharpener. Doesn't look that dirty, I would just use a garden hose - Press wash will damage siding./ Spray the finish. Wagner premium - or brush it if u got the time. USe top-shelf latex primer and finish. (some will tell u oil primer, todays latex is good) Find some family members or friends who owe you favors. gotta go to work, PM me with questions if u want

[Big E]

I am 100% in agreement with the monkey on this one. It's always easier to pay somebody to do it, but far less rewarding. The pros will definitely get it done faster, but not necessarily better (this is a complex function of your abilities at the start, your ability and willingness to learn the trade, how anal you are about doing it right, how anal the pro in question is, etc).

Looks like well more than a week if you're doing it by yourself, just because setting stuff up and tearing down takes so long.

Good advice on here, surface prep is the key. Let me make one point nobody has - DO NOT skimp on paint. Yes, buy the stuff that goes for like $30/gal retail. It will flow much better giving a much better finish, it will last longer, it will be easier to work with, there will be less mess, etc. But don't pay retail, just go into a dedicated paint store (Sherwin Williams, Ben Moore, etc.) and set up a cash account. Talk to the store manager, if you're buying like 20 gallons and all the supplies, he may give you a break even beyond "generic" contractor pricing (which no contractor pays anyway).

[iceman]

I would say that LITT's time estimate is probably about right, plus or minus a bit depending a bit on how well the current paint is adhering.

-Get yourself some glacier glasses, man, standing in front of that white surface on a bright day will be blinding!

[Aldo]

$7k for that house sounds like a bargain. 200 hours is not gonna happen. Doing this alone is a full summer project. Maybe you should practice on one of the back sides of the garage to see how it goes. Sort of a trial an error thing. No need for scaffolding. Looks like you can reach most of that with a 32' ladder. It's all in the prep work. Do a flim flam job and your mother will be spending 8k next summer.

[iceman]

Yeah, looking at that house again Aldo's probably right about how much time it will take. No way in hell will it take a week like some people said.

Also you have to factor in that you will be going insane by the time you are halfway through it.

[13]

A week solo? You've got to be fucking kidding me.

I say 2 weeks, maybe more. But then again, I go all out with every detail.

I put the value of the job above $4,000, judging from all the prep work that needs to be done.

Oh, and if there's rotten wood, you and your mom are f u c k e d.

[DaveTV]

Oh, and if there's rotten wood, you and your mom are f u c k e d.
Not necessarily - you can cut out and replace bad pieces easily . If you can get that prepped properly (Caulking/scraping/sanding/spot priming-that is the REAL work) you can spray it with a power painter - personally, I would brush it.. You need a CREW mon

[drugged_monkey]

I stick with my one week quote. It could be done easily. In one day this weekend I exposed 2, 10 foot high 15 feet long plaster walls down to brick. Then I hauled the plaster to the dumpsters. Then I went outside and removed aluminum siding from 3 of the 4 exterior walls. Then washed-up the house and got dinner ready for my wife before she got home. You'll be surprised how quick it goes.

Painting my house on the other hand. I need to do tons of carpentry, there will be at least 3 colors for details (old victorian). Lots of tuck-pointing damaged bricks etc. I might try to finish the exterior this summer/fall. The inside still needs a ton of work.

[Arnold Babar]

Way more than a week, esp if you don't have experience. But painting isn't rocket science. Keep it simple. Take your time. Get a good ladder, top quality primer/paint, top quality brushes (don't skimp) Purdy is a good brand. Don't spray, don't use scaffolding. Cheap sprayers clog, good ones are pricey, and if you don't prep right you make a bloody mess. a little wind and lack of experience spell disaster with a sprayer. Spend your money on good, basic equipment: ladders, brushes, that tool Davetv spoke of, wire brushes, paint, tunes, weed, beer. Don't rush. It'll take you all summer. You'll get a killer tan. Go for it.

[DaveTV]

On second thought don't bother with spraying, they are right - don't forget the magic goo for those gaps b/w the trim and the siding! Make sure it's "painter's caulk"
http://www.azpartsmaster.com/shopazp/images/catalog/dshop/DAP18065.jpg

[Aldo]

Originally posted by drugged_monkey
I stick with my one week quote. It could be done easily. In one day this weekend I exposed 2, 10 foot high 15 feet long plaster walls down to brick. Then I hauled the plaster to the dumpsters. Then I went outside and removed aluminum siding from 3 of the 4 exterior walls. Then washed-up the house and got dinner ready for my wife before she got home. You'll be surprised how quick it goes.


Demo work is easy compared to tackling this job alone in 1 week with no experience. And you appear to have some demo experience. :eek:


I was also going to add that you should do the part facing the most uppity neighbors first. Then as Ice so aptly puts it, when you bug out in mid-July at least it's not a total loss.....

[The AD]

That's a big ass house. I'm no expert but I agree it will take more than a week. If you find someone to help you, then maybe you could knock it off in a week (but, of course, you'd have to pay him/her). All the big surfaces are no problem, it's the detail work that takes all the time.

[H-man]

CMOR, where's that house? Looks familar.....

[cmor]

Sweet, lots of info. I think I would keep it simple and stay away from a sprayer, I don't think that the painting itself is going to be the big time consumer. The windows are also going to take forever. Currentlly all the storms are off, so i could jump through those pretty quick, but their are still screens up there that need to be done, and the million windows themselves are going to be damn tedious.

The big question left is about the scafffolding. I thought there was no way I could ladder it the whole time. I know last time it was painted they set up scaffolding, they also had a whole boatload of people. I gotta decide about that.

I always have friends looking for work, I could employ a second, but it would cut into the earnings marging. So let's say we go for a total price of $1500 below the quote:

$5500
- materials ($700)
=$4800
-part time help (100 hours at 8 an hour)
=$4000

So two working together for a total of 200 hours, and then I could finish up the rest of the work on my own. That be doable in a month eh? Not bad deal. It would give a nice time buffer zone as well.

I took a few more pics for the consesus:

The worst looking portion of the house:
http://www.tetongravity.com/usergalleries/albums/userpics/10568/normal_side.jpg

The front:
http://www.tetongravity.com/usergalleries/albums/userpics/10568/normal_door.jpg

Windows:
http://www.tetongravity.com/usergalleries/albums/userpics/10568/normal_window.jpg

At least one spot needs a little repair:
http://www.tetongravity.com/usergalleries/albums/userpics/10568/normal_broke.jpg

And what is going on here, it looks like the last coat of paint was thrown over stuff that wasn't entirly scraped clean?, it hasn't chipped since it was last painted. Would I have to scrape this whole thing down?, its still bonded real well but it looks like the last job done was shotty:
http://www.tetongravity.com/usergalleries/albums/userpics/10568/normal_chip.jpg

I'm thinking its a go, I'm gunna run around today and see what stuff is going to cost.

[cmor]

Originally posted by H-man
CMOR, where's that house? Looks familar.....

It's in Orchard Park, south of buffalo, NY.

[snowsprite]

I painted for College Pro for 2 summers. It would have taken a crew of four of us a good 7 solid days to pain that house. I'm talking 12 hr days, short breaks and knowing what you are doing. So it will probably take you 10 or 12 days!

What will hang you up the most is all the trim work. Do not underestimate what a PITA it is to prep and paint the trim. This is what I always got stuck doing b/c I'm petite and good at it. It's always big fun hanging off a dormer in 95 degree blazing sun w/ wasps buzzing around your head. :mad:

You definitely need the scaffolding for a job like that. Do not scrimp on the prep...this must be done correctly. You have a lot of prep work. Do you need any carpentry done to replace rotted/damaged shingles or trim? Take note of that stuff...it's not for amateurs. I'd almost consider hiring a real crew to prep the job and finish it yourself to save cash, if you can find someone who will do this.

Good luck, and wear lotsa sunscreen dood!
:cool:
Sprite

[snowsprite]

Oh, and watch the weather forecasts carefully so you can make as educated a decision as possible when to begin!

Sprite

[iceman]

Originally posted by snowsprite
I painted for College Pro for 2 summers. It would have taken a crew of four of us a good 7 solid days to pain that house. I'm talking 12 hr days, short breaks and knowing what you are doing.

4 x 7 x 12 = 336 EXPERIENCED manhours.

[snowsprite]

heh, I just noticed that I typed "to pain that house." Little freudian slip there...but take note young man!
:eek:
Sprite

[EPSkis]

One guy? One week?

That monkey is indeed......._drugged. :p

Not a chance in hell that gets done in a week. Not even doing it half-assed from sunup to sundown.

Count on 2 weeeks - minimum. I'd guess even with a partner, it's gonna take 2 weeks. More than likely, three.

Yes, surface prep is key. Depending on how bad it really is, you may want to consider power spraying it to get all the heavy flakes off. The downside of that is that if you have any bad wood or loose siding, you're gonna blow it off the house & end up doing a lot of trim work. ***Note: If you're gonna do a good job, you may end up cutting trim & fascia boards anyways. Be prepared - don't just paint over bad wood & joints***

Use the caulk generously & pick up one of those 5-in-1's DaveTV mentioned. They're invaluable.

My personal recommendation for a house that hasn't had a paint job for over 10 years - Use an oil-based primer. Saturate the wood. Slap it on heavy, don't worry about what it looks like. Just be sure when you're mixing up 5 gallons at a time, you gotta get all that pigment off the bottom of the 5...It's a workout. A drill w/ an extension stirrer comes in REAL handy. Use a big ol' 5 or 6 inch oil brush & go to town. Scrape the hell out of it & make SURE you remove all the old paint, chips & flakes. Prep the entire house before you think about picking up a brush. Believe me, once you get rolling, it's not easy to stop & do touch-up prep work.

A couple extension ladders is all you need - you're going to be moving constantly. Your finish coat should be latex, and as mentioned above - You get what you pay for. Buy a quality paint. Start with the peaks / dormers & work your way down. As stated above - don't stop in the middle of a section & let the edges of the paint start to dry....It'll cause what's called a "flash"....You will definitely end up with a striped house...Not good.

I'm not a proponent of power painting, especially on a finish coat. A brush just gives a heavier & more consistent finish. Again - a decent 5"-6" latex brush will get it done. Some guys prefer a 4" brush for a finish coat, just depends on what you're comfortable with. Generally speaking, bigger=faster. Same deal with the brushes though - don't skimp. Once you get started, you'll see what I mean. Buy some nice Wooster brushes & keep 'em clean. Brush 'em out with a steel brush when you're done & keep them in their wrappers. Like any tool, take care of it & it won't fail you. Might sound anal, but any decent painter will tell you the same thing. (I did own a painting company for 5 years..) ;)

edit: Heh Sprite ~ College Pro was one of my competitors. They seemed to do a pretty good job. I think you're right, too - It would take a crew of peinter a week EASY to do that job.

[Arnold Babar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by snowsprite
[B] It's always big fun hanging off a dormer in 95 degree blazing sun w/ wasps buzzing around your head. :mad:

Oh yeah, this is an often overlooked hazard. Buy some freakin' Raid. They only seem to attack when you're on top of the ladder, paintcan in one hand brush in the other.

[cmor]

Originally posted by iceman
4 x 7 x 12 = 336 EXPERIENCED manhours.

Alright, so let's say 400 hours for the supidity thats sitting over here. With a partner I'm looking at 200 hours a piece, so thats about 5 40 weeks right there, or 3-4 longer weeks. $1600 for 200 hours of help, I'm still sitting on $3200.

Currentlly I'm just making sure it will go in the required time. If I dont finish in time my mom WILL kill me.

[13]

Originally posted by cmor
Currentlly I'm just making sure it will go in the required time. If I dont finish in time my mom WILL kill me.

Remember that painting outside is (obviously) weather-dependent as well. It might help to remind her of that.

[iceman]

You shouldn't have a problem getting it done in time if you get a decent helper and you don't slack.

[Big E]

I think a pressure washer would probably save a fair amount of time getting the poorly-bonded paint off. You're still going to have to go back and sand down, scrape, etc., but the PW will take the bulk of that off. Just make sure you don't use the narrow-angle tips for anything on that house. Probably nothing less than about 35 degrees. Otherwise you'll see exactly where the water hit and you'll be patching that stuff up for about a month. I'd get a relatively low pressure one, too, probably no more than 2000 psi.

... fondly remembering my days working at Sherwin Williams ...

[cmor]

Originally posted by snowsprite

You definitely need the scaffolding for a job like that.


Originally posted by EPskis

A couple extension ladders is all you need

hmmm..... I dont know. I am a bit worried about all the carpentry work, I'd have to give it a closer look. Again, I'm a total house painting jong.


Originally posted by EPskis

Start with the peaks / dormers & work your way down. As stated above - don't stop in the middle of a section & let the edges of the paint start to dry....It'll cause what's called a "flash"....You will definitely end up with a striped house...Not good.


I'm thinking if all I have going is ladders I'd need a partner or else I wouldn't be able to move fast enough, correct?

[xboat]

put vinyl siding on that facker and be done with it!

[cmor]

Oh, and main part of the house is about 200 years old, other parts aren't exactlly new. I may blow the whole thing down if I use a power washer.

[EPSkis]

Originally posted by cmor
hmmm..... I dont know. I am a bit worried about all the carpentry work, I'd have to give it a closer look. Again, I'm a total house painting jong.



I'm thinking if all I have going is ladders I'd need a partner or else I wouldn't be able to move fast enough, correct?

Yes. No way that's a 1 man job. You'll get to flying around pretty quick on the ladders after a few days, but once you start that finish coat, you'll NEED someone to help out...

Heh - we used to "jump" our 30' extension ladders....Once you get good, you can pick up another 3' or so on each side. :D

Of course, doing it on a 40' dormer with wet latex could theoretically cause one to lose one's bowels. Not that I'd know anything about that. :rolleyes:

edit: No, you don't need scaffolding. Yes, it's a nice stable platform & gives you room to move & sit your lunchbox, but I wouldn't call it a "timesaver". Moving scaffolding IS a 2 man job & it's still time-consuming.

[iceman]

Man, I worked on a vinyl siding crew doing triple deckers in Providence, talk about crazy shit with ladders...jumping them, hanging like Tarzan from the back side, I'm amazed I'm alive.

[slim]

Originally posted by cmor

And what is going on here, it looks like the last coat of paint was thrown over stuff that wasn't entirly scraped clean?, it hasn't chipped since it was last painted. Would I have to scrape this whole thing down?, its still bonded real well but it looks like the last job done was shotty:
http://www.tetongravity.com/usergalleries/albums/userpics/10568/normal_chip.jpg


This is what I was talking about using a sander on. This is where the last guy scraped and then painted. Scraping only removes poorly bonded paint and leaves well bonded paint in place. Thus you have the inconsistant finish like you see in the photo above.
Most people don't care, as you can't see that from the street.

The company I worked for only painted rich people's houses, anal retentive people's houses, or houses so fucked nobody else would take the job. Thus, we used a power sander to blend the edges of the well bonded paint into the areas where poorly bonded paint was scraped off. With a coat of paint on it everything will look uniform.


I'm thinking if all I have going is ladders I'd need a partner or else I wouldn't be able to move fast enough, correct?

This is why well set-up scaffolding makes your life easier. You can move quickly from the start of a board/side to the end of the board/side and avoid flashing. You can also use ladder jacks which use two tall ladders and allow you to put a single platform between them to work on. You may have trouble finding them as they're technically illegal and extremely dangerous in the eyes of OSHA.

[EPSkis]

Originally posted by iceman
Man, I worked on a vinyl siding crew doing triple deckers in Providence, talk about crazy shit with ladders...jumping them, hanging like Tarzan from the back side, I'm amazed I'm alive.

LMAO ~ No kidding. That specific time I made mention of.....We were doing a job in Lexington at a new development..The backs of the units ran about 30' downhill. The level part of the back only extended out about 6 feet from the foundation of the units - enough room for the concrete pads the A/C units were sitting on.

I was all the way up on the 30 and tried to bump it over about 5' so I could carry it over enough for my buddy to pick up where I was...It would have saved me from moving my ladder again...'Cept when I jumped it, I was on fresh latex over an oil primer. A bit slick. That freakin' ladder took off. I slid about 15' over and ONE RAIL of my ladder caught the eave molding. I hung on until my buddy could get the 40 footer up so I could scamper over onto it...Holy shit, I thought I was dead...Looking at about a 50'-55' drop down into a dry drainage pit. That would have been less than fun.

[iceman]

Yikes.

[Aldo]

Cmor, got those shudders off yet?

[Obstruction]

Originally posted by iceman
Man, I worked on a vinyl siding crew doing triple deckers in Providence, talk about crazy shit with ladders...jumping them, hanging like Tarzan from the back side, I'm amazed I'm alive.

Jayzus, a modern day tin man, in Providence no less. I knew I wasn't worthy but this just, you should pardon the turn of phrase, ices it. Seriously, that is a life experience worthy of the name. ;)

[EPSkis]

Originally posted by Aldo
Cmor, got those shudders off yet?

He's shuttering just THINKING about it!

[iceman]

Originally posted by Obstruction
Jayzus, a modern day tin man, in Providence no less. I knew I wasn't worthy but this just, you should pardon the turn of phrase, ices it. Seriously, that is a life experience worthy of the name. ;)

You don't know the half of it. We drove to Providence from Hyannis every day with the psychotic alcoholic ex-marine boss (18 arrests for assault since his bad-conduct discharge), in one of his collection of early-70's Caddy convertibles...the Friday before the fourth he stops, buys a case of beer and some ice, goes to the trunk and grabs a cordless drill, drills some holes in the floorboards and dumps the beer and ice on the floor in the back seat...that's just one of the stories... good times, good times.

[irul&ublo]

Some major issues:

1. prep time. that house seems to nees a fair amount of scraping, sanding etc. How old is the house? Ever had lead paint on it? major health issue when it comes to prep work.

2. Before you "hire" anyone to help you, keep in mind they will likely be considered your "employee" for both tax and workers compensation purposes. that means if you dont have comp coverage and one of you morons falls off a scaffold or anything else...you could be in big shit for med bills and prob. w/ the state etc.

Other than that, have fun.

[drugged_monkey]

Man you guys are crazy... Get a ladder, get a sprayer, rent a sand blaster and knock it out.

When it comes time to paint and fix the exterior of my house I'll post photos of it before hand and you can pick a finish date of sometime in the year 2010 and then I'll finish it in a week (while working 40 hours a week in the office). Hell, in all the time we've spent talking about this thing cmor could be halfway done.

[Ireallyliketoski]

Originally posted by iceman
Man, I worked on a vinyl siding crew doing triple deckers in Providence, talk about crazy shit with ladders...jumping them, hanging like Tarzan from the back side, I'm amazed I'm alive.

No kidding, I used to paint houses in Providence, we did one 35 foot triple decker on Chalkstone Ave, where the house next door was so close you could stem it for balance.

cmor, that project looks like a huge undertaking and it looks like it's not in that good of shape. If I was going to do this thing solo though, I would forego the scaffolding and sprayer and just use ladders and brushers, rollers are no good for that type of siding because you won't be able to get full coverage on the bottom part of the clapboard. Not sure what you mean about having to do the screens on the windows. Are the windows the old style sash windows, that need glazing and what not, if they are tack on another week because that takes a while.

Steps I would take:
1a. Remove the storm windows, this will make the job easier in the long run.
1. I would rent a power washer though, but don't get too close, just use it to knock of the loose stuff and give it a good cleaning.
2. Scrape and sand, caulk any gaps.
3. Another light wash with the power washer to get rid of the dust.
4. Prime any bare spots.
5. Paint the house. Just do it in sections, look for natural lines in the house to start and finish so you don't get any visible overlapping.
6. Paint any of the trim last.
7. Put the windows back on the house.

200 hours sounds like a good estimate to me, but I have mad painting experience. The most time consuming and important part of painting is the prep work, the final coat is just for show.

Again, go with good paint, good brushes, good materials, etc. Secondly, if you've never done anything like this before I would seriously consider hiring someone to do it, provided that you know that they do good work. That is a huge undertaking for one person with no experience, you might end up screwing it up and seeing the paint all peel next summer and having to have pros come in and do it again.

[xboat]

i'd have the garage vinyl sided by now and would be just starting the back........

[Ireallyliketoski]

Originally posted by drugged_monkey
Man you guys are crazy... Get a ladder, get a sprayer, rent a sand blaster and knock it out.

When it comes time to paint and fix the exterior of my house I'll post photos of it before hand and you can pick a finish date of sometime in the year 2010 and then I'll finish it in a week (while working 40 hours a week in the office). Hell, in all the time we've spent talking about this thing cmor could be halfway done.


Yeah, but dude, you know what you are doing, this dude has no experience whatsoever. That makes a huge difference, still even with a lot of experience, and all the right power tools that would still take 100 hours start to finish. That thing is a monster!

[Aldo]

Originally posted by EPSkis
He's shuttering just THINKING about it!

I better shud up.

[irul&ublo]

Originally posted by drugged_monkey
Man you guys are crazy... Get a ladder, get a sprayer, rent a sand blaster and knock it out.



A sand blaster...on wood siding? Better know what you're doing.

[Aldo]

Perhaps a nice close shave?

http://www.aittool.com/

[irul&ublo]

Originally posted by Aldo
Perhaps a nice close shave?

http://www.aittool.com/

Those look pretty cool. Wonder if there is a LesboStrap 9000 adapter available?

[EPSkis]

Originally posted by drugged_monkey
Man you guys are crazy... Get a ladder, get a sprayer, rent a sand blaster and knock it out.

When it comes time to paint and fix the exterior of my house I'll post photos of it before hand and you can pick a finish date of sometime in the year 2010 and then I'll finish it in a week (while working 40 hours a week in the office). Hell, in all the time we've spent talking about this thing cmor could be halfway done.
*-
Granted, I haven't been to CO yet, so I can't speak from experience ~ But I'll go out on a limb here:

Sunrise 6 ish?
Sunset 8ish?
Call it 15 hours of daylight. Minus the 8 hours a day you're in the office. Given a full week, you honestly think you could prep and paint that beast in ohhh...under 60 hours? Solo? You be cwazy man, cwazy.

[drugged_monkey]

epskis, I can do it. :D

[Cosmic Bandito]

I can paint that house in 200 hours.

I can paint that house in 100 hours.

I can paint that house in 40 hours.


Drugged, Paint that house!!

[gincognito]

I think the monkey should make a cross-country jaunt, knock that sucker off over the weekend, come home with a cool couple of g's for his troubles, and then hire a gaggle of hot young ladies to move his bathtub for him.

Sick and ashamed and happy (and what he does with the ladies and remaining cash once the tub is installed is up to him),
d.

[iceman]

I was thinking the exact same thing as gin.

Well, maybe not exactly the same.

[Lostinthetrees]

Lot of good discussion on this thread and some experienced painters offering it. I second and add to the following suggestions:

- Yes, Purdy and Wooster; excellent quality. Purchase a brush comb. If you take care of them and use a brush comb 2 brushes will do the job for you. 4" brushes are my fav. Do it all w/ them.

- Priming with oil or latex... 20 years ago, I would have used only oil. Now, some excellent quality latex primers are now on the market. Whatever you choose do not cheap it out on the primer!

- someone said roller and pan. I do not believe that person has the experience. 5 gallon bucket with wide paint screen! Use it for rolling and then use brush for finishing surface. Others have written nicely about using the technique. You can fly with a 6" roller and 4" brush on the house body.

- Power washers; when you rent they come with a variety of tips and have PSI control. Just ask what they reco and do not exceed. You will not be using high pressure so unless wood is really rotten you will not be blasting it off the house.

- Sanding. I did not include that in my estimate (200+hrs). Ouch. Begins to add up to a time consuming project. Previous job did not sand and was that ok with parents? Discuss this as it will add time.

- Oooh! tack clothing the house... whoa! This is not a car or piece of furniture. A garden house w/ jet sprayer is all you need to wash down before painting.

- Carpentry. Not include in my estimate. If you are a jong, find a carpenter to do the repairs. Power wash first and scrape to open up the problems. Then bring in the man/woman to look and estimate. Sorry, but do NOT skimp on this.

- Ladder jacks. NO way for the inexperienced.

- Ladders vs scaffold. For a split level w/o lots of scraping I would use ladders. For the size of your place w/ windows, again, I reco scaffolding (or, motorized lift). Your legs will thank you after the first couple days. Ladders are very tiring on the legs, no work space for tools, and do not provide enough left and right coverage. You will be constantly going up and down and resetting.
* Divide the longest length of the house in 2 and rent enough to cover that distance.
* Sounds like u found a buddy to work with you to move the scaffold sets. I would not scaffold the entire house unless you have deep pockets.

- Motorized lifts. If you have flat ground and solid turf these can be real time savers. Not hard to operate, but do require level surfaces. Ask the rental yard and see if you can get a demo.

- Batch paint. Working from 5 gallon pails you will mix at least 2 gallons together and divide between you and your buddy's 5 gal. pails. As you draw down, open another gallon and divide it between you. Always batch your finish coat and trim paints!

- Do not spray paint. 'nuff said.

[cmor]

Alright, read the replies, stopped by Sherman-Williams and revaluated plan


Originally posted by slim

This is why well set-up scaffolding makes your life easier. You can move quickly from the start of a board/side to the end of the board/side and avoid flashing. You can also use ladder jacks which use two tall ladders and allow you to put a single platform between them to work on. You may have trouble finding them as they're technically illegal and extremely dangerous in the eyes of OSHA.

I can pick up a ladder jack set-up for about $100. Sherman-Williams guy didn't mention any sort of deadly danger, he actually came up with the idea himself. So I think that may be the way to go. Extreme ladder-jack painting.

Definitlly gunna be a two person job, I could do a bunch of it solo but the main chunk of it is going to take two people.

I'm thinking I'm prob. going to keep it simple. Scrape all the areas that are in need of scraping, and feather the edges of the well bonded paint. I think this would cover the majority of the house.

In areas where there is water damage and stuff is peeling, I'm not totally decided yet. I've got to get it all off but not sure how. The house is a timber box and would quickly turn into the biggest bonfire buffalo has ever seen if I try to heat strip it. Chemical stripping looks nasty. I'm worried power sanding will blow the siding to bits. The wood is in not great shape. The aittool looks nice, but I'd still be worried about destroying stuff, and they aint cheep. I think that in the areas its really coming off, scraping would be real easy. And in the others I would just suck it up and scrape away. I would also prob. powerwash certain areas, but keep it real gentle.

Looking at the last paintjob it wasn't anything special. You can
see the old paint layers and the stuff is falling off and it was done only about 8 years ago. The house is so wet any job isn't going to be super long lasting, and the fixit to get rid of the water damage would be obscene.

They charged $7000 last time for the mediocore performance. Estimates for a real nice job are breaking 5 digits. I think I can figure it out and make it go as nice for less.

Any more opions are greatly appreciated

[cmor]

Originally posted by Lostinthetrees

- Ladder jacks. NO way for the inexperienced.


hm. damnit.

[Lostinthetrees]

Originally posted by cmor
hm. damnit.

Yeah. Remember that you want to be skiing next season! ;)

[slim]

Originally posted by Lostinthetrees
Yeah. Remember that you want to be skiing next season! ;)

Well said. Ladder jacks are effective. They are not redundant. There are no railings like scaffolding. There is no place to tie in a harness. If you mis-step you fall 30 feet to the ground. That said they are fast and easy. Just don't fall.

[cmor]

I could easily set up a rope/webbing/prussik system off the top of the house that you could clip in and out of and move around freely with. It would at least prevent a ground fall off the ladder jacks. It would ruin a rope, but I can use an old 11mm. I think that would still be faster than hauling scaffolding around, and paying for it.

[slim]

Originally posted by cmor
I'm worried power sanding will blow the siding to bits. The wood is in not great shape.


Power sander: Use a random orbital sander with a coarse grit paper. It'll only destroy what you intentionaly destroy as the operator. Very easy to use. Very gentle.

http://ts.smoothcorp.com/pimage/231709.400x400.jpeg

Belt sander: This will strip the paint on terrible areas where the wood is in good shape. Be careful... this will destroy wood in poor condition happily and quickly.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000223H8.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[slim]

Originally posted by cmor
I could easily set up a rope/webbing/prussik system off the top of the house that you could clip in and out of and move around freely with. It would at least prevent a ground fall off the ladder jacks. It would ruin a rope, but I can use an old 11mm. I think that would still be faster than hauling scaffolding around, and paying for it.

Go for it. This is way safer than what I had (nothing) working as a college kid (didn't know any better). Before you climb up on your set-up give it a second look-over and make sure it makes sense and is stable.

[cmor]

Originally posted by slim
Go for it. This is way safer than what I had (nothing) working as a college kid (didn't know any better). Before you climb up on your set-up give it a second look-over and make sure it makes sense and is stable.

I could just sling the two chimneys and run webbing in a loop down across the face of the house, clove hitch a rope into a 'biner that slid along the webbing, clip some 5mil cord to my harness and use a prussik knot to attatch to the rope. The 'biner would slide back and forth across, and the prussik runs freely up and down. Scaffolding would add a whole nother dimension to the job I don't want to deal with.

[drugged_monkey]

All right you bitches, it's on!! Don't be thinking it's not on, when it clearly is on. I'll start posting pictures of the crackhouse with me in action wearing my kilt commando style atop a ladder.

I'll take the house painting Pepsi challenge later this summer. My house is in severely worse shape, but it is smaller. And the work will kick ass and you'll all be throwing your internet panties at me and I'll be really confused and creeped out and ask you to keep them to yourself (especially iceman because his underwear is probably burlap or the shroud of turin or something like that).

[G]

Aha, finally found it....

This video is all I can think about when reading this thread. It's a TV ad that aired constantly, on all channels and all hours of the day, at my last home.

I'm probably the only person who thinks it's funny, but I thought I'd share anyway.

quicktime (http://www.acc.co.nz/injury-prevention/safe-at-home/video/acc-3b.mov)
windows (http://www.acc.co.nz/injury-prevention/safe-at-home/video/acc-3b.wmv)



others (http://www.acc.co.nz/injury-prevention/safe-at-home/stf/rationale/) from the series.

[DaveTV]

That house looks like New England. Tell you what: Get a keg of beer(Harpoon:D ), set up a barbecue and have a maggot-painting fest - bang it out in one day.. :cool:

[iceman]

The skidmark of Turin? What?

[Dr. Crash]

Originally posted by Geoff
Aha, finally found it....

This video is all I can think about when reading this thread. It's a TV ad that aired constantly, on all channels and all hours of the day, at my last home.

I'm probably the only person who thinks it's funny, but I thought I'd share anyway.

Much funnier the second time :D. cmor, don't forget to secure the ladders too (top rope or not).

drC

[Arnold Babar]

Originally posted by Aldo
Perhaps a nice close shave?

http://www.aittool.com/


http://stream.qtv.apple.com/qtv/videoc/http/benn001/benn001_http_300_ref.mov (http://)

Here's agood rerun for this thread:D :D :D Am I right?

[cmor]

Alright, lots done today. The detailed estimate for the entire house came in. At

$19,000

Holy smackers.

All day was spent measuring the house and crunching all the numbers to figure out how long it'll take, and once we get going it'll give me a timeline so I can track progress. Of course the timeline will be a lot more accurate once I know how fast each piece goes. I measured every damn square inch of the entire house, and charted down whether it could be painted from the ground, a step ladder, or would need full ladder jackage. I also gave it a grade, "A" being simple clean and paint; "B" being scrape, feather, and paint; and "C" being clean it to the bare wood.

Total square footage needed to be painted minus the doors, windows, and doorways: 4626

Average window size is 40in x 55in, averaging 16 lights per window, and there are 45 of um.

6 Doors

2 more complicated doorway deals.

I used 125 square feet/hour as one layer of paint time. So to prime, and put two layers on it would take 3 hours for 125 square feet.

If a step ladder was needed I added 30% to overall time

If ladderjacks were needed I added 100%

Prep time for "A" condition was half of layer time
Prep time for "B" condition was same as layer time
Prep time for "C" condition was twice layer time

Total time per window was estimated at 1.5 h

Every window also has a corresponding storm window, which are stored away. The storm windows may have to be glazed, not sure if I could tackle that too. Might have to pay someone to do it. So I only put an hour per storm window to go over quickly.

If anyone has made it this far I'll spare the rest of the details.

Total time comes in at.......

469 hours

40 gallons of paint

I have to figure out how much of the area needs to be primed and also finalize a few details. And i'm still jonging it in some of the painting technique But I have a real good idea about what's gotta get done. Whadda you think.

[Arnold Babar]

Dude! Get to it. 19 grand?!:eek: I think you have it all worked out. Lostinthetrees, i think has given the best advice. I envy the sense of accomplishment you'll have when you're done. Don't forget the hornet spray!

[DaveTV]

40 Gallons of paint? No way - not of good paint and if it's properly prepped - way less- that is a daunting task for one person, that house..Especially one new to the trade

[cmor]

40 Gallons of paint? No way - not of good paint and if it's properly prepped - way less- that is a daunting task for one person, that house..Especially one new to the trade

I overestimated the paint on the doors and windows, original estimate was around the 30 mark, i was trying to give a buffer zone. It's also a duo job as of now. I would prob. work solo when I had the time but the majority of it would be a two person operation. I'm currentlly working on finding a quality full time second. I gotta decide who I could deal with day after day.

[Aldo]

Alright. You've got some room in the budget. Two words for you.
Day labor. I'm not talking about your buddies. Head out to the daily lineup with all the other contractors. you're on the outskirts of a major city, you'll find it. Get some cheap local muscle, with skills if verifiable. This will afford you the time to work on the repair, priming and painting of the areas that need special attention. They slap on paint while you tighten up the loose edges.

I smell a season pass, ski trip, perhaps even some new gear hiding in that estimate. Make it happen.

[cmor]

Originally posted by Aldo
Alright. You've got some room in the budget. Two words for you.
Day labor. I'm not talking about your buddies. Head out to the daily lineup with all the other contractors. you're on the outskirts of a major city, you'll find it. Get some cheap local muscle, with skills if verifiable. This will afford you the time to work on the repair, priming and painting of the areas that need special attention. They slap on paint while you tighten up the loose edges.

I smell a season pass, ski trip, perhaps even some new gear hiding in that estimate. Make it happen.

I'm shying away from the real employment game here. I don't want to have to deal with kids falling off ladders and tax forms and other horriblness. With two people working days I could go around and tidy all the hard pieces up, but it be much simpler in the financial spectrum for me to scrape a buddy off the bottom of society and stick a paintbrush in his hand. It'd give me a climbing partner as well since we'd have the same time off.

And I don't even see the dollar signs in this. I see a bigger set of cams,newer ice screws, some new BD androids, and other mountain gnar. Perhaps some heli time for drop-offs.

[Stikki]

Watching the building across the lot getting painted reminded me of this thread.

Update? Is it done yet? How'd it go? Did DM drive across the country and bang it out in one weekend?

[cmor]

Originally posted by Stikki
Watching the building across the lot getting painted reminded me of this thread.

Update? Is it done yet? How'd it go? Did DM drive across the country and bang it out in one weekend?

I've been busting my ass non-stop since I posted this thread. Last sunny day I didn't work was July 3rd. Last day I wasn't covered in paint was mid-June. I got a solid 30 hours in over this past weekend. I leave Buffalo for Colorado Thursday. I leave Colorado for the Canadian Rockies Monday. So by the end of tommorow it has to be done.

Worst summer ever. Scraped, Sanded, Primed, Caulked, Repaired, and Painted non-stop. There was a reason painter man wanted to charge $20,000. The house is currentlly being held together entirelly by DAP. I have paint on my hands, on my arms, in my hair, on all of my clothes.

There's about 30 unlabeled buckets of paint in the garage. I can distinguish between white primer, white Gloss, white Flat, and white Satin from 50 yards away by nothing but smell.

I have lost the will to live.

Perhaps I'll post pics of the finished job before I leave.

[iceman]

Nice job sticking with it, but man, we tried to tell you it would suck. Sorry for the bad summer.

Just curious, but how close to the 469 hour labor estimate did you end up?

[13]

Originally posted by cmor
There's about 30 unlabeled buckets of paint in the garage. I can distinguish between white primer, white Gloss, white Flat, and white Satin from 50 yards away by nothing but smell.

Heh. NOW you're a painter. :D

I'm reminded of the time I was so busy slapping on oil primer that I forgot to ventilate the room I was in. Whee!

[Dexter Rutecki]

Originally posted by cmor

Worst summer ever.

Props to you for getting after it, I like your estimate system that you did. Were you right about a lot of it? I take it that one guy working a full week, even 18 hours/day, couldn't have done it? All I've ever painted was a fence, a closet, and the interior and trim of a shack, and never had to do that good a job (no one cared too much). Never had to work at it long enough, or carefully enough, to truly hate it.
My worst summer, however, was probably the summer spent working in a French kitchen, with real French people, trying to communicate in French, that ended with me nearly crazy and coked out.