Mantra tip delam/separation?

[RekRab]

So I deserve it...

I bought a pair of 06/07 Mantra's with skins a week ago from a guy on craigslist for a screaming deal. He told me a local shop here in Boulder epoxied the metal tip after it separated from the base - which didn't seem serious enough for me to pass up. Everything else about the setup was pristine.

Anyway, after my first day out the tip separated (pic below). Anyone know if this can be fixed? Apparently epoxying isn't an option.

[Skidog]

Interesting I saw a pair of mantras of like vintage in the lift line at Alta the other day with the EXACT same issue....

This typical???

Possible fix? Rivets???

M

[HitMe]

I think epoxy can work, but the problem is getting a good bond. You need to try to clean both surfaces, check to the aluminum part of not bend (if it is bend it right) and then preferably make a "form" (out of wood) with the curvature of the ski.

Probably, it was not done seriously enough the last time.

If worse comes to worse, would cut that part of the alu tip way and fill with something else. The biggest danger of not having that part is if you hit something excactly where the steel edge starts. But I think it would be better to not have it at all that to use the ski like it is now.

[Tye 1on]

Core Shot posted a really good repair method a whiles back, I think it was on a blown sidewall though. Forget the adhesive, wasn't epoxy. Thinking it was on a Bro, and his fix even got two thumbs up from the company. Some creative searching would likely find it...http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106725&highlight=sidewall+repair

[RekRab]

Ok. The collective has spoken. I'll try another epoxy with the hardman stuff/wood form and report... Skidog, my first reaction was rivets too.

I'm kicking myself for cannibalizing my old rig for the binders. My single Mantra quiver is now blown until I patiently fix this. And I'm not patient. Duct tape is tempting for a quick freshy fix in summit tomorrow... must resist...

[gretch6364]

FYI...same thing happen to a friend...same vintage...they tried epoxying it...that didn't work....Volkl ended up replacing them...lucky SOB

[RekRab]

Problem fixed. How? By shearing the pivot pin on my NX21's (while in alpine mode) and sending the offending brakeless ski with a floppy metal tip into Montezuma bowl at warp speed (someone eventually found it - new thread on this one when I have the time)...

But before that I made a 2 epoxy attempts. Attempt 1 lasted 1 hour on the slopes, attempt 2 lasted 1 day and 1 hour, so I'm making progress?

I couldn't find the hardman epoxy (could be the big mistake) so I ended up with some quick curing (~8 min) flexible epoxy and a PVC form made from my dry-top gasket replacement rig (attempt 1 pictured, attempt 2 featured a whopping 2 vice grips for more clamping power). So the general effort included:

1) Significantly sanding aluminum tip and base to get good adhesion
2) Cleaning with cotol-240 (another kayak repair leftover). I'm not sure if this was a good idea, could it degrade the base layers in any way, not sure?
3) Gluing and clamping using 2 cross sections of PVC piping with a longitudinal cut (see pic). Then overnight curing.

2a) Attempt 2 also included grinding the metal tip piece on the outside edge to reduce the chance that it will catch on my other ski when I rub tips (I think this gave me an additional day before it separated the 2nd time).

Anyway. So far, I haven't had success. I'm going to search out some of this hardman stuff or some long cure flexible epoxy and try again (once I fix/warranty the naxos - I'll probably have a lot to say about this in another post... I'm not psyched about the pivot pin design, I think it was a stress concentration caused by bolt threads).

[Mt It]

I'v got the same problem..........the 1st tip piece left begining of this season (don't know where never found), kept skiing them w no prob, now the other one is half off.

Anyone found a better solution that's working?

Anyone know where I can get another piece?

Don't want to lose the skis.............

[Mt It]

Been reading the threads............You guys said you used epoxy and it didn't hold, some of the mags are using JB weld on delams, has someone tried JB for this app?

[RekRab]

I tried long cure epoxy, and it held out the longest before separating. ~ 3 days. Haven't tried JB yet. I've gotten lazy and am just letting it hang right now.

[skiingsamurai]

mine did that too my first day 3 seasons ago. I took them to the shop and I had a new pair the next day. Volkl warranty is very good. If you dont want to go that route, just do what everyone else recommends

[hose-man]

Drill, rivet & forget about it. Drill a nickel & use it as a washer on the rivet. Then put a "change for a nickel?" sticker near by. That aught to mess with people's heads.




Oh, put some more epoxy in the gap before you rivet it. Just to keep the water out.

[1wsguy]

If it continues to be a problem, and you don't want to drill/rivet, try just removing the whole metal piece altogether, and then use some tape to make an edge form , then fill the void with some good epoxy or jb weld, and sand or file it till it is smooth.

[Pegleg]

Just adding my voice to the din... my 06/07 Mantra metal tip came off last season, sent the ski back to Volkl (which required unmounting the bindings and then remounting them when I got them back, wtf), they kept it for a month and "repaired" (read: epoxied) it, and this weekend I just noticed that the tip is gone again. Not particularly stoked to lose the ski back to the Volkl void for the rest of the season.

[seanpistol]

I think epoxy can work, but the problem is getting a good bond. You need to try to clean both surfaces, check to the aluminum part of not bend (if it is bend it right) and then preferably make a "form" (out of wood) with the curvature of the ski.

Probably, it was not done seriously enough the last time.

I agree. Also, use a 12 hour epoxy. The 5 minute Home Depot shit flat out sucks for anything besides topsheet chips.

[splat]

FYI/PSA.................a coupla basic rules for fixing any ski, with regards to adhesion.

The two primary things that make epoxy stick (aside from the ingredients) are: Clean and Rough.
On almost any part of a ski you are fixing, sand or scratch it with something pointed if you can. Then, get it clean. MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) or the highest grade alcohol you can get at the pharmacy will work for the wipe down. MEK is wicked shit. It evaporates better, but try not to huff it. Methy Ethyl Alcohol is easy to get if you're in Canada, less toxic than MEK. Store-grade alcohol leaves a faint, but not too bad, film residue.

Heating epoxy with a blow dryer (and thoroughly mixing it) will give you a nice thin liquid that will seep into tight corners down deep and increase overall bonding. Make sure that once you've clamped it, it sets undisturbed. The curing times on the epoxy are based on a median temp of 70 degrees. Give it an extra day.

Cores - make sure they're dry before you go sealing them.

Sidewalls - Both abs and uhmw need to oxidize to maximize adhesion. If it's a delam on a sidewall, try to flambe' it real quick a few times with a torch. Right in the crack on the bottom (or top) of the plastic where it needs to hold.

[roorfan]

something similar happened to mine. total delam from tip to 4 inches deep into the ski's shovel. they still ski the same (so far).

[Altoid Brad]

BOYCOTT VOLKL - Enough is enough. After delamming on two pair of Mantras , one pair of Gotamas and a pair of Katanas, I will never buy another Volkl ski. I don't know how you got your skis replaced under warranty, but they have denied EVERY FFFFFKG one. I believe the Volkl rep posts on this board, well, I am telling everyone I know in the Wasatch to BOYCOTT Volkl. It is not the skier that is delamming these skis, it is poor manufacturing quality. Let me take you back, remember your Explosives? good manufacturing. Remember the Vertigo G4? good manufacturing. First year Mantras? bad manufacturing. Second and third year Mantras - bad mfg. Sumos - bad. Every year of the Gotama - bad. Now the Katana, last year - bad, this year - bad.

We don't have to put up with shitty skis anymore. Volkl - your warranty of good will has expired!

[squaretail]

I believe the Volkl rep posts on this board.

Yup. Hi.

How can I help?

[Sensisnow]

I had the exact same thing happen to my mantras late last season. The metal tip began to delam and then the ski also started to delam on either side of the titanal layer. Had them repaired at a shop (epoxy), but they didn't even last a full day before delamming again.

Not happy with the work the shop had done, I decided to try to fix them myself. It took a bit of time to get them fixed correctly, but I've used them all this season and they aren't showing any signs of problems.

Here is the method I used:

1. Clean everything EXTREMELY well. I scraped out all the old epoxy, blew out all dust/scapings with an air compressor, and cleaned everything with the strongest rubbing alcohol I could find.

2. Drill 3 holes (size depends on the rivets you use) through the tips of the skis, including the piece of metal that is falling off. Drill one in the center of the tip and two others on the sides, near the end of the metal piece.

3. Rough up, sand, or score any surface that will be in contact with the new epoxy. Then, clean it all again using compressed air & rubbing alcohol.

4. I had the best luck using the long cure (~24 hrs) epoxy. Mix it together and get as much of it as deep into the ski as possible. I found it easiest to do this with a syringe.

5. Now is the time to get those pop rivets in there. Put all 3 rivets through the ski and then use clamps around the entire tip.

6. If you have a hotbox, now is the time to use it. I'm not sure if it's what made the difference in my repair or not, but I placed the ski into a hotbox at around 120 degrees F for 24 hours. After removing it from the hotbox I left the clamps on for a few more hours and cleaned up any excess epoxy after their removal.

It's certainly not the best looking repair I've done, but I haven't had any problems with the skis since I did the repair at the beginning of this season.

[Altoid Brad]

Yup. Hi.

How can I help?

Thanks for offering, but the best you can do now is pass the message up to your senior management that there are a lot of pissed off customers. As for me, I just sent back the last pair of Mantras I bought that delammed after 19 days. If they are rejected saying it's skiers fault, I will consider all action avaible to me as a consumer under the law.

However, I am through as a customer unless the Volkl manufacturing gods come down and make right all the $$ I have spent on crappy products that were not warrantied, and guarentee that all future purchases will not delaminate.

[jfost]

Jesus Brad, lay off the Altoids...

[PNWbrit]

Squaretail hooked me up right proper with a warranty claim.

I think courtesy will get you further than the attitude....

[oftpiste]

It sounds more ike frustration than attitude (could be wrong of course). If he's really had the problems he states and gotten the brush off I think some frustration is not out of line.

Of course, being polite to the guy that could help you never hurts!

[bigpetey05]

i bought a pair of the black mantras..... missing the metal tip, and was told that this wouldn't "affect" the ski by numerous tgr members.

is this true.

[splat]

I'm quite sure it is true.
Doesn't affect a damn thing except the looks.
The ski is held together by epoxy. And that's tough shit.