Siping BFG Mud Terrains

[Hugh Jass]

I drive my MTs on ice/hardpack while wearing a diaper. Something must be done.

With an electronic and tinny "SEARCH FUNCTION JONG" ringing in my brain, I searched and found this thread (http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17282&highlight=siping+terrains).

Anyone sipe their MTs? $50 for four tires at discount tire. Did it work? Did you start shedding knobs? I need to know. I feel funny wearing a diaper.

[lemon boy]

Sell MT's on craigslist
Buy AT's

Problem solved. MTs are not that useful for Colorado.

[Conundrum]

I would go diaperless. Sipe them. I have MTs on my Taco that I had siped this season. It's a noticeable difference in a good way. I have not seen any chunks missing and the people I talked to before hand said that siping actually makes the tires last longer. I know that is whole different debate but I have no regrets.

[El Chupacabra]

I haven't had any tires siped, but I know some Jeep/4x4 enthusiasts who have, and swear by it for onroad use. They say that some of the edges can get torn off easier when rockcrawling, but haven't noticed any difference in overall lifespan.

I used to have these tires on my Rubicon: Goodyear Wrangler MTR:
http://www.offroaders.com/tech/AT-MT-Tires/images/Goodyear-Wrangler-MT-R-l.jpg

The MTRs were good offroad, acceptable onroad (noisy, but to be expected) in dry conditions, and scary in snow or even heavy rain. Sold them to go to a larger tire size.

I now have these on the Rubicon: Maxxis Bighorn:
http://www.4x4galore.com/blog/bblog/pbimages/7.jpg

The Bighorns were recommended to me as being a much better handling MTR, with better onroad snow/wet characteristics, without sacrificing anything offroad (except some sidewall durability -- the MTRs have very thick sidewalls).

Looking at the two tread designs, the MTRs and Bighorns are very similar. Main difference is the Bighorn has slightly tighter center tread, and has factory molded-in siping.

The Bighorns drive much, much better on snow than the MTRs. I attribute it to the siping. They're not as good as BFG A/Ts (my all-around favorite), but they are doable without the scary edge-of-your-seat feel that came with the MTRs.

So I'd go with the siping, if you already have the MTs and want to improve onroad traction. Will the tire shop sipe used tires? (I thought they'd only do new ones.)

[Hugh Jass]

They'll sipe if there is 6/32" or more of tread. Not a problem with the mudders, which have ~15k on them and enormous blocks.

LB: I had some ATs on the Landcrusher and they were toasted in 25k. Great tire, but I was underwhelmed with their durability/wear. For $50, I'm willing to try the siping.

Conundrum: Exactly the experience I was looking to hear. Thanks.

[Hugh Jass]

El C: thanks for the detailed advice. Just don't have the coin for new rubber.

[El Chupacabra]

El C: thanks for the detailed advice. Just don't have the coin for new rubber.

Wasn't suggesting you buy new tires, just relaying the only experience I personally have with siped vs non-siped. Since the MTR and the Bighorn have such similar-looking tread patterns, I think the siping is most likely the reason why they work better in snow.

One thing I forgot -- if you're concerned about chunking or tearing off parts of the tread -- ask the tire shop to sipe only the center tread blocks, not all the way to the edges. That should help keep your tires intact when going offroad, but still provide onroad traction.

[Buster Highmen]

El C: thanks for the detailed advice. Just don't have the coin for new rubber.
The kids will cost you more.

[Hugh Jass]

^Heh.

Said coin is unavailable due to new Blizzaks on wife/baby-mobile.

Middle siping - roger that.

[Buster Highmen]

^Heh.

Said coin is unavailable due to new Blizzaks on wife

That's one hellava IUD.

[grooveninja]

Another under impressed TA ko owner here. They lived up to the hype the first 15k, after that they went downhill on both sets I've owned.

My local Discount tire guy was telling me the new MT's (KM2) work a lot better on snow and ice. Anyone try them yet?
http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/overview/mud-terrain-t-a-km2/3930.html

I was also considering the Nokian Vatiiva M/T but have not found a lot of info on it for snow/ice performance, but Nokian's tend to have a good reputation in those conditions for their other tires.

[skiingsamurai]

I had MTR's on my old wrangler, but they went bald. They were sick off road, not bad on dry, and nearly killed me in the snow. AT's were killer daily driver tires. they railed in the snow. MT's would be good after siping. Dremel away

[lemon boy]

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that you get BFG ATs per se, just that AT (all terrain) tires totally pwn3z MT (mud terrain) tires for 99.9% of what you'll do in CO.

As for the mileage issue 25k is IMO acceptable mileage, not great but okay on a truck. Especially if you're changing them early b/c for snow/ice tread depth makes a big difference. 35k and you're psyched, 45k means you're driving on too little tread. I guess I have low expectations ;) Frequent rotation will also help and buying Load Range E tires are obviously going to be more durable than C or D range tires.

But I understand the $ issue.

[Conundrum]

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that you get BFG ATs per se, just that AT (all terrain) tires totally pwn3z MT (mud terrain) tires for 99.9% of what you'll do in CO.

I've had ATs on my Taco too. For hardpack/ice/slick ATs > siped MTs > MTs. I would have gone AT again without thinking about it but I scored a deal on the MTs.

[brettf]

LB: I had some ATs on the Landcrusher and they were toasted in 25k. Great tire, but I was underwhelmed with their durability/wear. For $50, I'm willing to try the siping.

Curious - did you just flog these tires or normal use? A lot of time off-road? I think 25K is pretty quick to wear out the ATs. How heavy is your LC? Maybe increased load?

[xtrmjoe]

I have sipped a few sets of goodyear wrangler mtr's, simmilar tire different brand, and had no complaints. The added traction is not drastically noticeable but I like to know I have done every thing I can to stick to the road.
I have sipped my 37" Mtrs as well for rock crawling, '86 full size blazer, and notice it on wet rock quite a bit.

[Snow Dog]

Frequent rotation will also help and buying Load Range E tires are obviously going to be more durable than C or D range tires.
Just pointing out that the BFG AT Es don't have a snow tire rating like the Cs and Ds. If that matters to you.

[Caucasian Asian]

What kind of rig are you putting them on? I ran 285/75r16 BFG ATs on my Duramax after a co-workers recomendation. I didn't like the performance or durability of the ATs on my 3/4 ton rig. He now drives a '07 Powerstroke (used to have '03 Duramax), and he went with siped BFG MTs instead of the AT he used to run. He is much happier now. Get the MTs siped.

[Hugh Jass]

'06 Dodge w/ Cummins.

Do you know if he did middle siping only, or all blocks?

[khakis]

I had my tires siped at Discount this weekend and they didn't go all the way out to the edge blocks. I thought siping was primarily for improving traction on ice? And it would seem to me that MTs would be better than ATs in snow, since larger voids=better cleaning, but larger voids also = less contact with the road so that would make them suck on ice. I have always had great experience with BFG A/Ts, ~40k on 97 z-71 extended cab.

[Jax]

BFG MT (KM2s) are very useful in Colorado, but I also use them offroad quite a bit. What size? I'm on my 3rd set of MTs (KM2), but this is the first set I have siped and they seem to be wearing slower than normal- 10K so far. I expected to have a slight improvement in traction while offroad, and longer tread life as a result of the siping. I hadn't considered the benefits of the siping for snow conditions as much- I can say that my other two sets of MT's performed great in the snow and ice, and they weren't siped- but I can tell a subtle difference when braking now. (235/85/16). Much of this really depends on driver and vehicle as well. I'm super cautious in the snow as it is- my truck is pushing 3 tons with all the junk on it.

[bossass]

Can I have the all weather tires on my subie siped? I'm disappointed, in a scared way, at how not well it stops on really slick snow/ice covered roads. Would siping, assuming I'm a canidate, help this?

[Rideski]

I've bought siping and I think it works. They charge extra if the tires are used because they have to clean the rocks out of them. Might not apply to HA's mudders since the pattern is so open, but to a subie tire they probably would.

That said, I think siping is compensating for something they should have done at the factory.

Let me get this straight. It improves tire life, dissipates heat, improves stopping distance on ice; and it's not done at the factory? Sounds like bullshit to me.

The Michelin All Terrains I was running did not have sipe marks a few years ago, and they do now. Even better is that it most likely goes down farther, the after market siping does not reach down to the wear bars. I predict in a few years all tires will be factory siped unless it happens to be bad for a specific function specialty tire, like rock crawling or whatever.

[BakerBoy]

I siped my brand new set of Cooper Discoverer STT's (285/75/16, $197 a tire) when I bought them at Discount Tire. $11 a tire. Well worth it, since they handle much more like an AT tire now, but with the grip of a MT in deeper snow and slush. Had a set of BFG AT's on my Toyota, and they were okay. Bought my diesel F-350 with a set of BFG AT's that actually had more tread, and they were fucking terrible. Like racing slicks. Lost about 2mpg going to the MT's though, but I'm no longer doing random peel-outs on dry pavement either, and going to the sled zones in 2WD is blissful, and easy on the wallet.

[refried]

I siped a set of BFG MTfor my Toyota a few years ago, I think they wore just as fast and it didn't make them any less scary in the snow or ice. I have a set of old BFG ATs that I siped today and will put back on for the winter, I always had good luck with the ATs and they would last at least 70,000 miles, I'm lucky if I can get 10,000 out of a set of MTs. I'd rather drive my Subaru in the snow anyway, It handles much better.