Hunting Mags...help me decide on a Shotgun

[Phall]

Alright, so ive decided i am going to start shooting, and next season hunting...looking at fairly priced pump 12 gauges for bird, and possibly slug, but will probably end up buying a deer rifle off my grandfather for other game(deer). Any models/makes you would recomend...Specs are 12 guage, pump, under 300, used or new.
thanks!
P

[lemon boy]

starting with post 129 in the 07 afield thread is an extensive shotgun selection discussion

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93728&page=4

Oh and the answer is a Remington 870 Express Magnum (3"). ;)

[Sirshredalot]

Upland or waterfowl?

The answer for under $300 in a new 12-gauge pump is Remington 870. Get it in a 3 1/2 inch with a longer barrel if you want to go after waterfowl. It'll shoot slugs just fine, but if you want to go after larger game and you're not limited to shotgun hunting by weird wildlife management rules, you'll end up getting a rifle anyway.

[lemon boy]

Upland or waterfowl?

The answer for under $300 in a new 12-gauge pump is Remington 870. Get it in a 3 1/2 inch with a longer barrel if you want to go after waterfowl. It'll shoot slugs just fine, but if you want to go after larger game and you're not limited to shotgun hunting by weird wildlife management rules, you'll end up getting a rifle anyway.

I don't think there's any real point in getting a 3.5" gun and a 26 or 28" bbl is fine, no need for one thats 30" at all. JMO.

[Sirshredalot]

Well, I shoot a 28 inch barrel on the 3-inch gun, so I'm inclined to agree. 30-inch barrel is just for turkeys.

But there are times when I wish I had a 3.5 inch for geese.

[lemon boy]

? why a 30" bbl for turkeys? My turkey barrel is a 18.5" deer sighted bbl, patterns the same as my 28" and is infinitely handier for sitting under trees.

Phall - don't mind us.

[koolaideprived]

I've got a Benelli Nova that I love. It's wicked easy to break down in the field and has given me bombproof performance, though it only has about 1000 shells through it. I can bust clays all day with it, but it still can accept a 3.5" shell for goose hunting. It fit me much better than the Remington 870, had a much better automatic site line when shouldered. It only comes in a synthetic stock, so you won't have to worry about dinging that nice finish. Throw it in the bottom of the boat or back of the truck and away you go.

[The Reverend Floater]

I've got a Benelli Nova that I love. It's wicked easy to break down in the field and has given me bombproof performance, though it only has about 1000 shells through it. I can bust clays all day with it, but it still can accept a 3.5" shell for goose hunting. It fit me much better than the Remington 870, had a much better automatic site line when shouldered. It only comes in a synthetic stock, so you won't have to worry about dinging that nice finish. Throw it in the bottom of the boat or back of the truck and away you go.

Seconded. The Remington 870 isn't what it used to be, if you ask me or my two buddies who have recently purchased them. For some reason, they seem to be jamming a lot these days. That and the finish sucks--they rust super fast, as in before you're back to the house from the blind, there will be rust dots.

You can't beat Binelli quality and the Nova is a great value. If you can hack it, I'll never shoot another shotgun besides the Super Black Eagle. Expensive but unreal.

[Sirshredalot]

I've only gone turkey blasting once, and my more experienced turkey blasting buddies were talking up the 30" - I forgot what their reasoning was,to be honest.

And my roommate has a Benelli pump - think it might be a Nova. I actually like the action a bit better than my 870, but I know he paid a bit more for it than I did for my 870.

Rev - I thought my recent rust issues were just because I wasn't taking good enough care of the gun. Glad to hear that this is not necessarily because of gun care jongness on my part, I guess. I haven't run into any jamming problems with it, though.

[JeffreyJim]

870 no question

[koolaideprived]

I do love the 870 simply for the ability to find them cheap, find cheap parts and their proven track record of reliability. The problem is that they don't fit me and I can't hit shit with one when the target is moving. My nova has been dropped in the water and shows no rust (after just a good wipe-down). The only gripe I have about it is that the pump will rattle in stock trim. If you get a piece of the soft side of self-adhesive velcro and slap just a tiny piece on either side where it contacts the under-tube, problem solved. All pump shotguns have a "slight" rattle problem, the Nova just a bit more due to the synthetic parts. FYI I got mine for 289 OTD at my local sporting goods shop. I am now intrigued by the SuperNova though, as it has many interchangeable parts (stock mainly for canting issues) and can be made into a helluva HD weapon. Benelli makes the US military semi-auto shotgun also, so they're put through some serious torture tests and have proven very reliable. I am kind of torn between getting one of these or something like a SuperLight as my next gun, as I don't know if I'll be getting into skeet and sporting clays more seriously, or just keep my shooting to the occasional clays busting trip.

When you're looking at guns, just pick the 870 and the Nova (or any other shotgun you are considering) up one after the other and shoulder them both a few times. Repeat this process. Remember how each one fit and how naturally it came to your shoulder. Now repeat it but with your eyes closed. When you open them, on which one are you naturally lined up with the bead on? IMO this is the true test for a shotgun as you don't "aim" a shotgun but point it. When you find one that is in a natural pointing position when you shoulder it every time, I think you've found your gun.

[yodaottis]

Not an 870 fan.
Mossberg 500 would be my recommendation.

Have had a few in both 12ga and 20ga, love these shotguns.
Very reliable in my experience.

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=3&display=specs

[Phall]

well damn. thanks for all the input,
my list is now
870,
nova,
mossberg 500
thanks guys!

[lemon boy]

On the Benelli front, their duck commander commercial (http://www.duckcommander.com/index.php) always cracks me up.

[SkiCop]

870, although the Nova is also a great choice.

The 870 has a clear edge when it comes to parts and accessories. As an 870 armorer, I can tell you that any jamming problems are due to improper maintenence, not the gun itself, and they require very little.

[leroy jenkins]

? why a 30" bbl for turkeys? My turkey barrel is a 18.5" deer sighted bbl, patterns the same as my 28" and is infinitely handier for sitting under trees.

Phall - don't mind us.

Disclaimer, I don't hunt. However, I played with a decent number of 18-22" shotties at ranges, and I've shot skeet with a couple. I was able to shoot skeet all right with a 18 nova. I haven't shot skeet much, and suck at it, so I'd estimate a lot of the clays were about 40 yards away when I shot them. The M4 I shot and my 18" 870 both seemed to do about as well. This was all with birdshot though, so if you're shooting turkey things might change a bit.

Are you guys all using chokes? Cus I can't see the need for a 30" barrel with a choke on it. Seems like you'd get more versatility from a shorter barrel that you can put chokes on.

You can also just get one gun with different barrels too.


Seconded. The Remington 870 isn't what it used to be, if you ask me or my two buddies who have recently purchased them. For some reason, they seem to be jamming a lot these days. That and the finish sucks--they rust super fast, as in before you're back to the house from the blind, there will be rust dots.

You can't beat Binelli quality and the Nova is a great value. If you can hack it, I'll never shoot another shotgun besides the Super Black Eagle. Expensive but unreal.


I haven't had too many problems with mine, an 870 express. I've put about 1000 rounds through it and it seems to work fairly well. Occasionally, after you fire a shell it won't eject unless you really muscle the pump. I have only had this problem abut five times, all of which were once the gun was well heated, usually after firing 50-75 rounds close to as fast as I could.

If you're worried about an express having issues, get a wingmaster. I might go so far as to say that an 870 wingmaster is one of the toughest guns ever made.


I would agree with whoever said to get a shotty based mostly on fit and feel. None of the guns talked about in this thread are bad.


EDIT: To say that the only time I've ever had rust on my 870 was after I let it get wet and stay that way for a little while. Just some tiny superficially stuff on the barrel, with nothing on the receiver. Again, if this concerns you, wingmasters will not have this problem.

[lemon boy]

All shotguns are "choked" although on some the choke is a "cylinder bore" which is to say: no more constricted than the barrel. Long barrels are less about pattern performance, which is mostly determined by the choke, and are instead more about how the firearm handles (swing and balance) plus there's a legit safety argument for a longer bbl in a blind type situation. Almost all modern shotguns with the exception of certain classes ($$$) of sxs's employ interchangeable choke tubes.

For turkey hunting you shoot the very tightest pattern that you possibly can and truly aim the shotgun b/c the goal is to hit the turkey's head (the only soft spot really) with as many pellets as possible.

For most bird hunting barrels in the 26-28" range are basically standard for a reason: they are appropriate for a wide variety of situations. To really justify going above or below that you'd have to have a very specific reason: like the handling/feel/swing of a really long bbl. I run a really short bbl turkey hunting for very specific reasons: better aiming device, better seated (ambush) handling, gets hung up on brush less hiking, marginally lighter the downside is that you have to be much more alert to the bbl because it is so short it's easy to point where you don't necessarily want it (eg: at a foot).

[AKBckntry]

Bought my 870 18" Express Magnum two years ago and it has been a very good gun. Have not done any hunting with it, only targets and the occasional clay pigeon slaughter. As configured mine would definitely be a good tool for bears, bore, bunnies, etc. The rust issue is definitely apparent, but consistent and thorough cleanings followed by a silicone cloth wiping will minimize it. This gun has never jammed or caused me any grief. It disassembles easily for cleaning.

Mine is built for defense, but it just goes to show you how versatile they are:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/155437/870.jpg

My bird hunting gun is a Browning Citori that was handed down by my father. 20 gauge and 26" barrel. Not being a 12 gauge has never stopped it from knocking down pheasant, ptarmigan, rabbits, and clays. It doesn't really fit into your criteria, but I can't help showing it off.;)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-4/155437/Citori.jpg

[rsknight1]

12 Ga Pumps:

Cheapest: Maverick(Mossberg 500)
Cheap: Remington 870
My choice: Browning pump (basic model/oiled stock)

[The Reverend Floater]

870, although the Nova is also a great choice.

The 870 has a clear edge when it comes to parts and accessories. As an 870 armorer, I can tell you that any jamming problems are due to improper maintenence, not the gun itself, and they require very little.

This doesn't make sense to me. Two people have cited "parts availability" as a factor. Shotguns, in my opinion, shouldn't require replacement parts if they are built well. Before my Binelli, I had a Winchester 1200 that never failed despite years of abuse. It did rust now and then but only after I failed to wipe it down too many times. I don't know how many shells I've fired through my Super Black Eagle without fail and I bought it used.

As for 870 jamming problems, I was with my buddy just a month ago the first time he used the gun. Jam city. My other buddy only had his for a few weeks of grouse hunting when it started jamming.

Two of my friends have old 870's that rule. Something changed, quality wise.

[leroy jenkins]

I think when people say parts they don't just mean replacements, then mean accessories and options like after market stocks etc.

[bio-smear]

In a few years when I can afford the fuel(it's a moving target) I'm going to fly my Cessna 170 to Alaska and have the adventure I've always promised myself in my dreams of a being a wannabe bush pilot. I'll be taking an 870 Marine Magnum with me. It's short and fits in the baggage area easily. 2 birdshot, 2 fulla balls, and 2 slugs: The bear round.

http://www.remington.com/images/products/firearms/shotgun/870marinemag%5B1a%5D.jpg

[Phall]

i checked out some 500's and 870s today....870 was a much tighter feeling package...

I am looking to buy used, so an older 870 sounds like a pretty solid choice for myself,
although new ones were something like 239 at dicks...

[lemon boy]

Why bother finding a used one?

239 - $30 from remington (http://www.remington.com/pdfs/2007-FallPromoCoupon.pdf) = damned cheap.

As for the rust, I assume you're talking about through the parkerizing. A very light wipedown with some oil keeps that in check handily. Annoying, yes. Big deal, not really.

[mnflyfish]

I also think the 870 is a wise choice. But in the same general pricepoint you could look at the Browning BPS (anniv edition this year) for a pretty gun. If you think you might take this up as a lifestyle, my bird gun is a Citori, and I LOVE that gun. I currently own a 870 that I put a slug barrel on (it's moved down to my back up deer gun) my BPS I use for the one or two waterfowl trips a year, and I added a slug barrel and scope and it's my deer gun of choice now, and my Citori O/U for birds. All are 12 gauge. For grouse and tight places I take my wife's 20 guage Remington 1100 auto. I really like that gun in that it's light and nice for a long walk in the thick stuff for grouse and it feels good to shoot.

Jay

[khakis]

I am keeping my eyes open for a store that still has a wetland camo winchester 1300 on their shelf. I have an old 1300 and I like the feel of a winchester PS way better than any of the 870s I've shot, and even better than a Browning I spent a day shooting (however the browning was a 3 1/2" and I am not used to that long of a pump...I also dislike the nova for this reason). I also like the fit and finish of a win...mainly how the slide release is smooth and curved instead of a flat metal tab. That kind of thing makes a big difference to me though. Mossbergs are a great value and reliable (in a pump) but they just feel sloppy to me, I think if you bought one you would be replacing it quickly

[epic]

Does nobody shoot an Ithaca anymore?

[heyyyou]

Remington 870. Reliable with a solid reputation and a vast array of barrels to select from.

Express if you want a relatively cheap model for which you won't have to worry about dinging the stock or getting a little rust.

[Dirk Diggler]

No guns are made like they used to be. I've got a collection of belgian brownings, Parkers, Brida, Win M12, etc that have never hiccuped ever. I retired most of them from the duck marsh in favor of more durable and less sentimental guns that I don't mind trashing with mud and such.
My jap made Browning Gold is a piece of shit. Its chambered in 3.5" but won't cycle a 3.5" shell cleanly ever. Its been back to to the factory once and to two separate gunsmiths and has never been right. If you break it down totally after every hunt and clean the piss out of it, you might get through the next hunt without it jamming 3"ers. If its below zero, forget about it. I don't care how dry it is.
My Winchester Super X2, which is basically the same gun(made in the same jap factory) without the magazine lock is marginally better but I've had a few recent incidents with it choking up.
I love both of these rigs when they are working well, but I'd buy a Benelli if I could afford it. There is a reason why the duck commander doesn't shoot Brownings anymore. Cause they don't go "Boom, Boom, Boom" anymore;). He's talking about browning. Buy the Benelli.