designing the ultimate skiers backpack

[laseranimal]

maybe some of the guys at PM gear wanna get a little crazy let us design a maggot pro model? :-) What would your ideal backpack look like? I gather from the numerous threads that there seems to be an issue for most maggots that run into problems with either their daypack for resort skiing is too small to take on a BC trip or the other way around. Well maybe this is a chance to make things right.

Heres what I would like to see if there ever was a maggot pro model

I think Osprey is on to something with their switch series big pack with smaller detachable daypack

Multiple ski carries, because for multiple short quick hikes diagonal is the bomb but there are sometimes where A frame is the way to go

Designated shovel and probe spots that are easy access, and inside so you don't lose it

Ability to open the pack with skis on it

Hydration system that can be routed to the left or the right.

One quick access pocket for tools/snacks that you can get at while on the go instead of digging through your pack to find it

ability to compress the big pack down while still keeping the pack "clean" so it doesn't snag on stuff


any other thoughts?

[Mulletizer]

You are onto pretty much the right idea IMO.

Personally I want something like the Crux packs (light, very strong, very simple, top loading packs that compress down really well) with a couple of ski-specific features:

- ski straps; both A-frame and with a loop that allows skis to be slung vertically on the back of the pack (the diagonal Da Kine ones are ok but they overbalance you when on the end of the rope and are a real pain if you are traversing and the skis keep catching the ground)
- some kind of alternative entry system. Either a back plate that opens (like the DK poacher) or a two-way zips down either side as well as the top entry.
- a removable lid that has quite a lot of volume. This would take your down jacket or sleeping bag for tours but could be removed for area skiing. The top would have a zipper to shut it without the lid.

I have a sewing machine and know what I want. I guess that eventually I will make the pack I want.

[Snow Dog]

What's wrong with having more than one pack? We have different skis for different conditions. Why not different packs? I have a small pack for in bounds skiing and summer day hikes and a larger (Stash BC) pack for everything else.

[Summit]

Not being able to find a suitable backpack is one of my biggest peeves.

Here is what I think:

Capacity:
1900-2300cu (tru)

Ski carry:
Dual Diagonal ski carry: Being able to hook up diabonal on either side to suite which way you are walking on a slope so you don't drag your tails.
NO DIAGONAL LOOPS that you hafve to slide your huge tails through!!!! All straps should all be heavy webbing and clip buckles as this is MUCH MUCH faster than one loop and one clip buckle because you just set the skis on your pack and clip the clips wherever you want for appropraite balance. Very fast... very easy... this is how I jury rigged my pack.
A-frame carry should be easily done using these four webbing/clip buckles for those narrow tree ascents.
Also one should be able to combine these attatchments to carry a snowboard vertically or carry snowshoes (widens market and versatility!!!).

Load bearing:
Internal frame (one or two hollow Al or composite stays)

Shoulder straps with lots of padding and a GPS pocket on one side and a
FRS/GMRS radio pocket on the other.

Load lifters/stabilizer straps (keeps things balanced and really snsug
when you are being bounced by crud or hucking)

Huge lumbar/waist straps with padding and zip pockets

Chest strap

*Optional leg loop straps (for extra stability!!!)

Compression straps on each side

Additional tool attatchments (webbing should be color coded!!!):
Dual ice axe loops with clip buckles to secure them during skiing

Shovel shaft slide attatchments similar to Dana Designs and Dakine with clip buckle to secure.

Webbing attatchment points so you can put your poles on the sides of your pack.

At least 3 daisy chain loops if not two rows of 3.

Two bottom webbing loops (similar to sleeping pad loops, also function as compression straps)

Pockets and Zippers:
Two external stretch nalgene water bottle pockets with drawcords.

Waterproof zippers (for summer, spring, and coastal users).

Back panel access with zipper starting at the bottom of hte pack (if backpack is a toploader rather than a front loader, otherwise unneeded)

Option for left or right camelback hose feed (through the shoulder strap a-la BCA Stash series)

Clear map pocket - Top loader should have this on the bottom of the lid section a-la Dakine packs, otherwise it should be a clear flip out section sewn into the top inside of the main pocket.

Top pocket for snacks (in the lid on a toploader, otherwise between back and main compartment) should be reachable while pack is still on for on the trek or lift snacks without removing pack.

Main compartment (pull cord on a top loader otherwise dual zipper, should probably contain the water resevoir mesh section, otherwise the water cango in a separate zipped pocket, just make sure its not between the stays and the persons back) Should have loops for collapsable probe.

Shovel pocket (big enough for larger composite shovel blades and aluminum blades, dual zipper)

Topper pocket (smaller pocket should be able to hold medical kit, head lamp, e-blanket, and maybe a set of gogles too)

Tool-organization pocket (dual vertical pull zipper or single zipper) with interal clear plastic organizational pocket, velcro mesh pockets, and slide pockets but still overall small - (perfect for tools, snow science toys, compass, binoculars, knifes, repair pieces, and fire starting things)

SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE THIS PACK FOR ME!!!!!

[bad_roo]

Originally posted by Mulletizer
I have a sewing machine and know what I want.

File under "Things I Didn't Think I'd Read On TGR Today"

[char]

*Optional leg loop straps (for extra stability!!!)

I'm not following you. You want harness-like straps on your pack?

Also, why water bottle pockets and a camelback pocket? Seems like they overlap and having both would add extra weight to your pack.

Sounds like you want something for SAR, not everyday BC stuff. The pack you described would weigh a ton.

[steepconcrete]

Originally posted by SummitCo 1776

SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE THIS PACK FOR ME!!!!!

i could make you anything you want...my friend todd and i have been putting together a small buisness on the side...working off of his company terra tech

edit- i'll find their site.

they have a big sewing room with 5 full time people and make backpacks for wildland firefighters and reforestation, and we have been dinking with many ski packs.

we can make it either super light weight or as burley as you want..many choices in the weight of fabric, size of straps, type of clips...the stitching is a lot burlier that most i have seen too.

the shit we have been coming up with is a lot like you describe...

taped seams is where it is at.

let me know if you are intrested.

[Innominatus]

Originally posted by bad_roo


Originally posted by Mulletizer

I have a sewing machine and know what I want.

File under "Things I Didn't Think I'd Read On TGR Today"


http://www.crazymofo.com/mofos/images2/jamegumb.jpg

"Sure, c'mon in, I was just making some ski packs."

[Summit]

Originally posted by char
I'm not following you. You want harness-like straps on your pack?

Also, why water bottle pockets and a camelback pocket? Seems like they overlap and having both would add extra weight to your pack.

Sounds like you want something for SAR, not everyday BC stuff. The pack you described would weigh a ton.

Those avvy air bag packs have leg loops to keep the pack form stripping off in a slide. I wanted harness like straps because when I have a bag that is *heavy* full of photo gear etc it has a bad tendency to slip up and down my back and make me very unballanced and tipsy... especially when skiing through chop or hucking.

Water bottle mesh pockets add maybe 1oz to the pack. They may seem redundant but this "redundancy" is exceedingly common. Two major reasons: When it's really cold, an upside down nalgene is more likely to give you some unfrozen water than the best insulated camelback. The second reason is any long BC treck you should be carrying more than 70oz that are in most camelback resevoirs.

Hehe... I expect the pack i described would weight 4lbs... but would be well worth it. I admit I carry the same pack on a SAR mission as I do in the BC and a very similar loadout. SAR and photography played into my design (mostly in the second axe loop, snowshoe carry, and pole carry), but mostly just BC skiing.

[seldon]

My requests:

-Thin enough to be able to load on a chair
-Enough and ONLY enough special pockets for essentials (blade, proble/handle in the same, map, and a junk top pocket) no more. Otherwise the organizer takes up more space than the stuff inside
-Stable on your back (no wobbling, I love my Bora 75 this way for scree and scrambling)
-Breathable back piece. Have little slits so the air can go up and down and so your back doesn't get all sweaty...

[steepconcrete]

http://www.terratech.net/

summit 1776 or anyone-- if you are serious about wanting a custom pack, contact todd at terra tech, draw up a few skeches with dementions and fax em to him, if it looks like a good idea and is not shit, it should work out something like this-- he will have jennifer make you up a proto, then send it to you to see what needs to be changed and how...and back and forth untill you are happy, then you will enjoy and test out your free pack, maybe have a few for your friends or anyone who could give thier $.02, change anything that needs to be changed, then we'll market it. he is very serious about this and wants to find people intrested.

[Woodsy]

Originally posted by seldon
My requests:

-Thin enough to be able to load on a chair
-Enough and ONLY enough special pockets for essentials (blade, proble/handle in the same, map, and a junk top pocket) no more. Otherwise the organizer takes up more space than the stuff inside
-Stable on your back (no wobbling, I love my Bora 75 this way for scree and scrambling)
-Breathable back piece. Have little slits so the air can go up and down and so your back doesn't get all sweaty... http://www.wookey.net/images/packs/shovelpack/pack_image.jpg

http://www.wookey.net/index2.html
look @ accesories 2

[BakerBoy]

"-Breathable back piece. Have little slits so the air can go up and down and so your back doesn't get all sweaty... "

...good luck not getting sweaty with a Wookey pack. Those things are like strapping a... wookie to your back.

[Woodsy]

i think the small size of the shovel pack helped this

[Spats]

My ideal ski pack would weigh negative 20 pounds, with load adjustment straps that could vary this from minus 5 to minus 40.

:D

Seriously: I just want an A-frame ski carry system where your ski edges don't immediately cut up the sides of the pack.

[Idris]

My Current pack is the old Dakine chute

Here is what I think:

Capacity:
1900-2300cu (tru) ...sorry don't get these measurments, the rest of the world uses litres.....for me 40 litres is about right for big mountai/short tours....25/30 for most other stuff

Ski carry:
Dual Diagonal ski carry: Being able to hook up diabonal on either side to suite which way you are walking on a slope so you don't drag your tails....I can do this but the A frame straps are realy compression straps that need clips....and beefing up

NO DIAGONAL LOOPS that you hafve to slide your huge tails through!!!! All straps should all be heavy webbing and clip buckles as this is MUCH MUCH faster than one loop and one clip buckle because you just set the skis on your pack and clip the clips wherever you want for appropraite balance. Very fast... very easy... this is how I jury rigged my pack.
A-frame carry should be easily done using these four webbing/clip buckles for those narrow tree ascents.
Also one should be able to combine these attatchments to carry a snowboard vertically or carry snowshoes (widens market and versatility!!!).

I personaly prefer the loop that you slide your tails through...It can't fail like clips can, and do.....would always like the lower llo fixed

Load bearing:
Internal frame (one or two hollow Al or composite stays)...good idea, pity the Dakine ones have the re enforcements to hold them in the wrong place so the fram keeps trying to leave the pack

Shoulder straps with lots of padding and a GPS pocket on one side and a
FRS/GMRS radio pocket on the other.....think these pockets should be on hips on shoulders.......just a solid D on each shoulder to clip a biner (you clip a sling between here and your harness when you are on a glacier).

Load lifters/stabilizer straps (keeps things balanced and really snsug
when you are being bounced by crud or hucking)...if the pack is well built you don't need these...I have them and they are just clutter

Huge lumbar/waist straps with padding and zip pockets...yup as above

Chest strap...with buckle in the middle not on one side...

*Optional leg loop straps (for extra stability!!!) can't see the piont if its been designed right...besides it woould interfere with your climbing harness

Compression straps on each side....if the A frame ski straps are designed right they would do this

Additional tool attatchments (webbing should be color coded!!!):
Dual ice axe loops with clip buckles to secure them during skiing...al la Dakine....but would prefer sleves...these side mounted ones are best in practice, you can get at your axe without taking your pack off.....fantastic when you are shitting yourself and the flat bit is 65 degrees.

Shovel shaft slide attatchments similar to Dana Designs and Dakine with clip buckle to secure......for axes, shovel should go inside, but it does need a sleve for the handle and probe...dakine forgot one, the handle just cloncks around in the shovel pocket.

Webbing attatchment points so you can put your poles on the sides of your pack......A frame/compression straps do this, but you could always have some little elstic ones like Dynastar and some dakine

At least 3 daisy chain loops if not two rows of 3....never found the need for more than one

Two bottom webbing loops (similar to sleeping pad loops, also function as compression straps)...more clutter, NO

Pockets and Zippers:
Two external stretch nalgene water bottle pockets with drawcords....if there is space, looking at my pack, not sure where they would go

Waterproof zippers (for summer, spring, and coastal users).

Back panel access with zipper starting at the bottom of hte pack (if backpack is a toploader rather than a front loader, otherwise unneeded)....very usefull, also use the pockets just on the inside for small but neccesary items (head lamp etc)

Option for left or right camelback hose feed (through the shoulder strap a-la BCA Stash series)......Mide dosent have so would very much like one

Clear map pocket - Top loader should have this on the bottom of the lid section a-la Dakine packs, otherwise it should be a clear flip out section sewn into the top inside of the main pocket.... again nice idea that I don't have.

Top pocket for snacks (in the lid on a toploader, otherwise between back and main compartment) should be reachable while pack is still on for on the trek or lift snacks without removing pack.

Main compartment (pull cord on a top loader otherwise dual zipper, should probably contain the water resevoir mesh section, otherwise the water cango in a separate zipped pocket, just make sure its not between the stays and the persons back) Should have loops for collapsable probe.

Shovel pocket (big enough for larger composite shovel blades and aluminum blades, dual zipper)

Topper pocket (smaller pocket should be able to hold medical kit, head lamp, e-blanket, and maybe a set of gogles too)

Tool-organization pocket (dual vertical pull zipper or single zipper) with interal clear plastic organizational pocket, velcro mesh pockets, and slide pockets but still overall small - (perfect for tools, snow science toys, compass, binoculars, knifes, repair pieces, and fire starting things)



Apart from a fe odds and ends and the Durability issue my pack isn't far off

[splat]

Interesting..............just spent a day with the Osprey people. Picked up an Eclipse 42+5 and a switch 18. PM Gear is definitely interested, while being fully aware that the pack market is highly competitive and most packs are made in China and VietNam at labor costs that are real hard to beat.

steepconcrete - how are your friends meeting the foreign competition, niche marketing?

If maggots can come up with a design and the profitability seems feasible, PM Gear is all about it. We'll entertain any idea that furthers the sport and the products used if it sells. There's always room for improvement, but every extra stitch, pocket, strap and feature adds to the price and must be considered.

But we're interested..........

[steepconcrete]

Splat-
i would say niche, but i dont know...they do basically make custom packs, building to suit if you will...quanitys small and big.

plus not too many foreign places have these huge forest fires, tree farms, logging rastoration markets in their backyard. when a big fire hits, they can't wait for china.

[powderhound]

Woodsy is onto something....www.wookey.net. I have the couloir which is a very simple pack. Their ski carry system is great. Plus they are made in Bozeman. The shovel pack that Woodsy pictures above and the Sun Dog would also make great ski packs.

[ak_powder_monkey]

A detachable vid cam pocket that easily becomes a phanny pack for helment cams

[The Jackamo]

something with wet/dry pockets so you can put stuff in there - base layers, socks, whatever you don't want mingling with your dry stuff while hiking.

like AK said above, a sort of quick-draw camera pocket would be nice.

[hop]

The Indigo Vengo and Tango packs are pretty close to ideal...

http://www.indigoequipment.com/images/Vengo32_100.jpg

Here's the Vengo at 32L, the Tango is 44L but basically the same.

Outside "toolshed" for shovel, probe, etc. that doesn't get in the way of the main bag, which is top loading and has a waterproof side access zip. Floating top lid is quite large (big enough for down jacket) and has the PLD, which I find useless for the intended purpose (who carries a water bottle that small these days???) but is perfect for a small camera. Easy access, and it's padded too! Hydration bladder compatible, nice suspension with air grooves for circulation, cinches down clean to hold the bare minimum but able to hold everything for a long tour in the Alps (rope, clothes, other shit).

I would add another ski carrying option. Currently you can only A or H frame skis, which I hate. Time to bust out some webbing and customize...

[Mulletizer]

Hey Hop, remind me who you are spancered by again? ;)

[hop]

oh yeah...
I am currently spancered by Indigo. ;)
That being said, I still think these packs are pretty nice. Aside from the ski carry system that I already mentioned, I wouldn't change much. Word on sizing... shorter folks get the regular, folks 5'8" and up the large.
Plus, they are pretty inexpensive. I think the Tango retails for $165, which is way less than most packs of similar quality.
www.indigoequipment.com

[Mountain Junkie]

What I want to see is a more adjustable suspension system on midsized packs. That's great that most packs come with a awesome hip belt, but if the pack is too short the hip belt ends up around your stomach.
As for ski carrying systems, I have an idea for a modular system approach that would allow someone to customize the carrying system.
One last thought-why do most packs center the weight around your shoulder blades? I've seen quite a few packs that use a V geometry. It seems that centering the load around your waist-near your bodies own center of mass-makes more sense for skiing.