ARG vs Bent Chetler

[SP_sam-O]

So I finally got to try some superfats last weekend, and of course they lived up to the hype. The first ski I tried was the 2010 Elan Boomerang, which gave me the best forward skiing powder feel I have ever felt. The early taper and rocker made them easy to turn(obviously), and the tip did give that surfy feeling I didn't believe in before. They also left deep trenches that 188 Coombas don't. Unfortunately, it was a very heavy ski and had only a tiny tail rocker, and what I need is a jibby pow ski. I also got to try the Bent Chetlers for a run, but the awesome demo binders double ejected off a 15ish footer, making me climb up the deep powdery slope to get one ski, and letting me try to remember slalom water skiing to get the other back. Anyway, I got very little feel for the ski, but the few turns I did get with both on were good.
So now I have to make the choice of which jibby pow ski to buy this summer. I decided no on any skis without early taper or reverse sidecut in tip and tail, and the skis had to have medium to large tip and tail rocker, so I was thinking the ARG or Bent Chetlar fit that slot. I didn't put EPs in there because I am afriad of getting them in the avy debree I run in to alot, and I think they are a tad heavier than ARGs and BCs. Here's what I am thinking: ARGs will be better when I'm in more cruddy conditions, BCs will be better for the occasional park run without changing skis, and I was thinking the BCs will feel more playful because of there softer flex, but also won't do as well as ARGs landing larger cliffs.
So which do you guys think would fit that slot of the ultimate jibbalicious poppy pow ski? Thanks for the input, and feel free to throw in other skis as well.

[marshalolson]

in order of jib-ti-tude:

1. 4frnt CRJ - supid poppy, combine the best qualities of the 2 skis listed.
2. moment night train - butteralicious, best graphics ever. pretty poppy too.
3. bent chetlers - there is a pair in gear swap now. they are mint. sack up.

[wwwllw]

Originally Posted by marshalolson

in order of jib-ti-tude:

1. 4frnt CRJ - supid poppy, combine the best qualities of the 2 skis listed.
2. moment night train - butteralicious, best graphics ever. pretty poppy too.
3. bent chetlers - there is a pair in gear swap now. they are mint. sack up.

Have you skied the night train? Anxious to hear more about it from somebody who has skied it.

[Dr.Evil]

I have a pair of ARGs, they are money in the powder, so much fun. That being said they are the last skis I would want to take into the park. I suppose they would be OK in the park if there was fresh snow, however if the landings are on the hard packed/icy side, I would even go so far to say that they would be dangerous in the park. That being said I've seen kids with JJs (not the same, but similar to the ARG) spin off jumps so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about

[SP_sam-O]

Originally Posted by marshalolson

in order of jib-ti-tude:

1. 4frnt CRJ - supid poppy, combine the best qualities of the 2 skis listed.
2. moment night train - butteralicious, best graphics ever. pretty poppy too.
3. bent chetlers - there is a pair in gear swap now. they are mint. sack up.

awesome, I somehow completely missed the CRJ. What made you like them more than ARGs? From the look of them, they looked alot like ARGs, but reading the dims. and stuff they seemed completely different. Also, why are they a better jib-ti-tuding ski than the chetlars in your opinion? And what made you like the chetlars more than ARGs? thanks for the feedback.

[marshalolson]

arg is a truly pow only ski IMO. the other skis listed have enough sidecut you can ski them all mountain, though they are somewhat limited, they are not super limited.

i was really impressed by the pop off a lip the crj could generate.

[SP_sam-O]

ah, good point. I also read your review saying they are super light, lighter than chetlers and ARGs?(ARG is 10lbs I think)
And for only the pow performance, would you still say you liked the CRJ the best of the three I've been mentioning now? I did love the few turns I got on the chetlers at a fairly fast speed, they did better than I would have thought. Whichever I get, I will be hitting lots of pillow lines and 5-15 foot drops. Thanks again.

[123ski]

ARG is not the right ski for you, they are really stiff..

You should consider the Rossignol S7 (although its heavy tip and not so heavy tail might feel off balanced spinning). Armada JJ. Bentchetler. Moment bibby (not quite tapered tip and tail, but they feel like it). Moment Night Train. 4Frnt CRJ.

[SP_sam-O]

Ya I had heard that the ARGs are somewhat stiff, which is good for crud and large cliffs, but do you feel it takes away some playfullness in the pow? and I know it will on the 10 degree groomers not being able to butter around on nearly flat slopes back to the lifts like I can on chetlers. I already took some of the skis you mentioned off the list for reasons like you said and a friend told me S7s aren't playfull switch and you have to go straight downhill switch, bibby what you said and not having very equal rocker, and JJ because I figured ARGs would be better if I did want a stiff ski, and if I wanted a soft ski like that, chetlers. I hate these gear decisions that are impossible for me to make up my mind. ATM it's down to Chetlers, ARGs and CRJs(thanks for pointing them out and for the review M)est. price on CRJ anyone?

[123ski]

I seriously would substitute JJ's for ARG's for you. The ARG's ski longer (even though they are both apparantly 185), stiffer, not poppy, they stomp cliffs way hard but...have you noticed that the people who ski like you want to ski are all skiing JJ's now (Ian Provo, Tanner, Julian, JP)...everyone doing backcountry jibbing switched to the JJ..not because they had to...but because it is much better at doing what you want to do. It is still a fairly stiff ski and handles crud great, but it is way more playful and versatile.

[123ski]

P.S. I will be skiing CRJ's soon so I will let you know..hopefully

[SP_sam-O]

Originally Posted by 123ski

I seriously would substitute JJ's for ARG's for you. The ARG's ski longer (even though they are both apparantly 185), stiffer, not poppy, they stomp cliffs way hard but...have you noticed that the people who ski like you want to ski are all skiing JJ's now (Ian Provo, Tanner, Julian, JP)...everyone doing backcountry jibbing switched to the JJ..not because they had to...but because it is much better at doing what you want to do. It is still a fairly stiff ski and handles crud great, but it is way more playful and versatile.

wow, I had never thought through why tanner and more of the Armada team went to JJs from ARGs, thats a great point. By what you have been saying, im guessing you have skied both? and I will look forward to your feedback on the CRJ. Thanks

[123ski]

Yeah, i have skied JJ, S7, ARG, Bibby, Donner Party, Hellbent, Pontoon, Maven, and Comi-Kaze...from the rockered ski lineup. I will let you know about CRJ's for sure once I get on them.

[SP_sam-O]

wow, thats a big list. I'm guessing that bents aren't what I was looking for like they would have been in 08 since theres more options now. Also, is donner party in that ARG slot of not poppy and not what I am looking for? and lastly, someone told me that they liked the JJs they had been skiing all season more than the Chetlers he had skied two runs, but that it could have been him just being used to JJs more since he couldn't point out why. Have you skied both and which did you prefer? Thanks you and M have been very helpful.

[hemas]

Originally Posted by 123ski

ARG is not the right ski for you, they are really stiff..

Can I please have some of what you're smokin'... Pretty please.

ARG is about the softest (if not THE SOFTEST) rev/rev board on the market. pRaxis Pows & Hybrids as well as DPskis Lotus 138s in either flex are stiffer than ARG. Pretty certain even the original Spatula is stiffer (at least until you remove the metal topsheet).

[SP_sam-O]

Originally Posted by hemas

Can I please have some of what you're smokin'... Pretty please.

ARG is about the softest (if not THE SOFTEST) rev/rev board on the market. pRaxis Pows & Hybrids as well as DPskis Lotus 138s in either flex are stiffer than ARG. Pretty certain even the original Spatula is stiffer (at least until you remove the metal topsheet).

I think he meant it's a lot stiffer than Chetlers and the other softys mentioned, not that it was the stiffest ski out there. Either way, it's still a good point about all those guys going to JJs for there jib pow ski instead of ARGs

[123ski]

Originally Posted by hemas

Can I please have some of what you're smokin'... Pretty please.

ARG is about the softest (if not THE SOFTEST) rev/rev board on the market. pRaxis Pows & Hybrids as well as DPskis Lotus 138s in either flex are stiffer than ARG. Pretty certain even the original Spatula is stiffer (at least until you remove the metal topsheet).

Donner Party is quite a bit softer. S7 and JJ (not true double reverse) are both softer.

[SP_sam-O]

Originally Posted by 123ski

Donner Party is quite a bit softer. S7 and JJ (not true double reverse) are both softer.

About how soft is JJ?

[123ski]

Originally Posted by SP_sam-O

About how soft is JJ?

only slightly softer than the ARG. The JJ is stiffer than the S7.

[SP_sam-O]

alright thanks. I guess its kinda down to JJ, Chetler, or CRJ. I'll try to get a CRJ or chetler thats been demoed since both those were on M's top 3 list, but both those or a used 185 JJ would be hard to get. I guess I have about 7.5 months to do it though =)
Doesn't 4frnt do a deal for college students or something?

[turnbuckle]

keep the bents on the list. I like them a lot. skiing pow in the trees, great, fast turns on hardpack, great, 5-15 ft drops, great. Fun in the park. You can play on these things in a lot of ways. Skiing slush bumps last weekend had fun slashing the slush piles on the bumps. Just a really fun ski for playing and doing things I hadn't before.

Crud or death cookies, you get bounced around. Not sure I'd want so much width underfoot on hard steep chutes.

I haven't skied the other skis in the list. My other skis are prophet 100s, stockli schmidts, and some slalom skis. You have to ski square on these as there's not much running surface but I'd guess that's the way with other on the list.

Bottom line: if you're doing fast bomber lines, get something straighter. If you're doing drops, trees, backcountry jibbing, or just playing around you gotta at least have the Bents on the list.

[SP_sam-O]

They WERE on the list, the list used to be much larger. Heres why i took them off: they are 11.2lbs in a 179. Thats nearly 2 more pounds than 185 jj, and 1.3 lbs more than ARG, and the weight is further out on the ski. I have now skied superfats with early taper and without, and early taper ended up being a must on what i get. Also, I didn't get tip flap on the soft chetlers, and I see it alot on bents. So thats why bents were takin off the list a bit ago

[khyber.pass]

You might also want to add to your list Surface LL/2s. These are a super jibby ski in pow, ski switch probably the best out of them all due to their radically rockered design. The most rocker out of any ski out there. Flat camber underfoot, fairly stiff until the rocker. Very playful with supershort turn radius in pow, smears like crazy. Can straightline once the balance is sorted. Terrible on groomers if mounted back for pow (my preference), apparently OK if true centre, and I can't say about the park -- I don't think these would work, frankly (landing zone is too small).

[JimLad]

I enjoy my ARGs, pretty solid platform for what they are. Magic in the trees and tight spaces, and pretty fun in the open spaces too even when hauling. But I'm no spinny jibber. And the snow has to be quite deep to really enjoy.

[connersw]

Originally Posted by khyber.pass

You might also want to add to your list Surface LL/2s. These are a super jibby ski in pow, ski switch probably the best out of them all due to their radically rockered design. The most rocker out of any ski out there. Flat camber underfoot, fairly stiff until the rocker. Very playful with supershort turn radius in pow, smears like crazy. Can straightline once the balance is sorted. Terrible on groomers if mounted back for pow (my preference), apparently OK if true centre, and I can't say about the park -- I don't think these would work, frankly (landing zone is too small).

I have my LL2's mounted -1 from true center, and I find them ok on groomers if I keep them on edge. If I lay them flat and point them, the tips get flapping all over the damn place. Also find them to bounce around way too much in soft bumps--really dislike skiing them when it gets too chopped up. Love them in pow (more so than reverse sidecut), but I'm now looking for a more versatile ski for next year like the ones listed--Night Train or Bibby Pro, JJ, Bentchetler, or now the CRJ.

If anyone is looking for LL2s or Donner Party's, I'll sell either of mine.